Be extra careful around m25

[joe and sue]

My MH although 18 years old still passes it's MOT so therefore meets the emission regulations which it had to comply with when built, so therefore I should be allowed to use it wherever I want, I pay the correct amount of tax, my 2006 ford fusion is excluded from the ULEZ but once again passes MOT so therefore meets the emission regulations. can I apply for a reduction of RFl
Both of these are fully maintained so why should I be discriminated against just because I choose to look after my vehicles and spend our money on going away and putting it into local economies,
Yes I know that I also spend some on Diesel, with multinational companies, but that is something which I cannot avoid.
Anyway, not too many brit stops or aires inside M25, so will go elsewhere
Joe

 

[martin2603]

Just to clarify, the M25 is NOT within the LEZ. For inside the perimeter only Euro 4 or above After 2020 Euro 6. At present it will be totally impracticable for HGV s that are not EURO 6 , there are Hardly any suitable convertions available , so it will be pay £200 per day or stay out. I m sure I can see the logic of taking a dirty old polluting ferry against a clean electric train.

 

[mpdcymru]

A coach firm I do the odd piece of work for was sent the £1,000 penalty when the driver inadvertently entered the zone (again I think it was a road diversion that caused it). Understanding that a warniong would be issued for a first offence, I wrote explaining our position and that we had never trangressed before. Reply stated that the vehicle had entered the zone some six or seven months earlier and a warning had been issued at that time. I further explained that this company had only bought the vehicle a couple of months earleir and, as such, our company had never received a warning and were not aware of the one sent to the previous owners. That doesn't make any difference we were told, the warning is sent to the vehicle! So an insentient non-being (in this instance a 28 seat coach) is sent a warning and is expected to forward that on to its subsequent owners!

The OP is correct you will not beat this system and it is best avoided like the plague.

 

[gus-lopez]

Copied from another group but very important for all

As we hurtle towards 2019 and a new season of travel beckons a word of caution for those circumnavigating the dreaded M25, if you don't meet the Mayor of London's emissions regulations then NEVER divert inside the M25 for any reason. Choose only to divert outside the circumference and here's why, returning home from Dover to Cheshire via the south side of the M25 earlier this year I was confronted with a closure at Junction 9, I followed the official diversion which took me inside the M25 towards the A3. Unfortunately it was late in the evening and the diversion was set incorrectly (try proving that after the event) and yes you guessed it I went straight into the LEZ zone whilst trying to navigate in darkness, avoid bus lanes and watching speed limits changing from 20 to 40 m.p.h. regularly.
The following morning like a decent chap I contacted the call centre (in Darlington) to explain my poor behaviour and with fingers crossed hoped for a sensible fine and a wrap across the knuckles, wrong!
Instead I was faced with two options pay £200 for a day pass before 24hrs had elapsed or £1000 penalty charge notice reduced to £500 if paid within 14 days. My old van being 4250 kilos gross and only Euro 3.
"Can you please tell me if I have been captured by the cameras I asked?" Err no sir, we don't have that information here, so you want me to pay for something without being 100% sure I've actually used it? You can always wait for the penalty notice sir.
So I paid the £200 for the day and fumed for 3 weeks but got on with life. 4 weeks later a letter from Transport for London drops through the front door with a picture of the me at 00.05 mins the following day I'd paid for my day pass, yep they wanted another £1000 as their day pass system runs midnight to midnight!
Well I kicked, screamed, begged and reasoned but to no avail, just try and appeal it's futile I assure you.
I ended up paying £200 for a day pass for 11.15pm to midnight and £500 midnight to 00.05mins into the following day £700 total. You will NOT beat this system which is now set to double it's charges soon, so please watch out for this the next time you travel around the M25 folks.”

Take your number plates off .far cheaper.£60 , not endorsable & no points +7 day notice to rectify.

I live just inside the M25 and drive on the M25 most days, I don't see what the problem is. The LEZ zones are very clearly marked long before you arrive at the zone perimeter, ignore it at your peril. The emission zone is there for good reason so that our kids have a chance of breathing fresh air like you country folk. If you want to drive air polluting monsters then do your best to avoid highly populated areas where your exhaust gases are killing people....

No they aren't .There is the odd sign. No idea what it is for unless you've been on the internet. So how does the foreigner know?
Additionally , see below also, as it is apnr it discriminates against all who are not on the data base ,like me, & would have no idea they had to register unless someone told them.
far better if it had been the same as all other countries wherby everyone has to register.

Then the locals wouldn't be up in arms now having just found out that saddy has tucked them all up if vehicles is over 3 years old with£12.50 /day charge just to live there.
I'd agree if you couldn't pay to enter with a filth monster , which you can , so then it is nothing but a tax gathering exercise . They should all be gassed starting with Ken.

To be fair the LEZ and ULEZ have both been established to reduce the air pollution levels for the millions of people who live in London. Why should they be subjected to high pollution because of "dirty" traffic? If your vehicle doesn't meet the current standard, keep away. There are loads of LEZ signs as you approach London, so turn around if the vehicle doesn't comply. They don't want your pollution!

Mick

If that was true ,fair enough but it isn't when you can pay to drive a polluting vehicle inside , + any vehicle over 40 years old is exempt , any vehicle that is diesel & under 2,5 T is exempt so can pour out any amount of pollutants legally.

Just to clarify, the M25 is NOT within the LEZ. For inside the perimeter only Euro 4 or above After 2020 Euro 6. At present it will be totally impracticable for HGV s that are not EURO 6 , there are Hardly any suitable convertions available , so it will be pay £200 per day or stay out. I m sure I can see the logic of taking a dirty old polluting ferry against a clean electric train.

No it isn't but for large amounts of it, it is the actual outer limit & as the OP stated if you are diverted off INSIDE the M25 you are ****ed, if not compliant. How do the foreigners know they have to register ?
Thanks for the post as it has just jogged my memory that I want to put in a complaint to the EU that the LEZ is discriminatory in that locals do not have to register whereas foreigners do. which is not a level playing field when in France ,Germany ,etc; everyone has to register.
As the Locals are now finding out having blithely gone along with it all & now finding that next year nothing less than euro 6 will suffice even for residents or its £12,50/day & 2 years after it extends to the North & south circulars.
As I have said before the signage isn't good ,regardless of what @buttons states. & I'm a Londoner. There is no info about what it actually is let alone the fact that entering it is just a money generating exercise . That livingstone scum has plenty to answer for.

 

[buttons]

Take your number plates off .far cheaper.£60 , not endorsable & no points +7 day notice to rectify.


No they aren't .There is the odd sign. No idea what it is for unless you've been on the internet. So how does the foreigner know?
Additionally , see below also, as it is apnr it discriminates against all who are not on the data base ,like me, & would have no idea they had to register unless someone told them.
far better if it had been the same as all other countries wherby everyone has to register.

Then the locals wouldn't be up in arms now having just found out that saddy has tucked them all up if vehicles is over 3 years old with£12.50 /day charge just to live there.
I'd agree if you couldn't pay to enter with a filth monster , which you can , so then it is nothing but a tax gathering exercise . They should all be gassed starting with Ken.



If that was true ,fair enough but it isn't when you can pay to drive a polluting vehicle inside , + any vehicle over 40 years old is exempt , any vehicle that is diesel & under 2,5 T is exempt so can pour out any amount of pollutants legally.


No it isn't but for large amounts of it, it is the actual outer limit & as the OP stated if you are diverted off INSIDE the M25 you are ****ed, if not compliant. How do the foreigners know they have to register ?
Thanks for the post as it has just jogged my memory that I want to put in a complaint to the EU that the LEZ is discriminatory in that locals do not have to register whereas foreigners do. which is not a level playing field when in France ,Germany ,etc; everyone has to register.
As the Locals are now finding out having blithely gone along with it all & now finding that next year nothing less than euro 6 will suffice even for residents or its £12,50/day & 2 years after it extends to the North & south circulars.
As I have said before the signage isn't good ,regardless of what @buttons states. & I'm a Londoner. There is no info about what it actually is let alone the fact that entering it is just a money generating exercise . That livingstone scum has plenty to answer for.

I cant really disagree with any of that gl there is obviously room for improvement in the processes but big cities can be polluted areas to live and getting worse by the day, something has to be done but as you say mixing it with tax collection can be a problem.

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[Funnymunny]

Absolutely disgusting that they can get away with charging anybody that amount. Surely if they are forced to close the M25 then they should clearly mark a route to avoid the charge area as any stranger wouldn't have a clueas to which way to turn to avoid it.
The biggest polluters of the lot are flying in and out of Heathrow every minute but do they get fined, no way. I think its about time we started taking some lessons off the French

 

[EuroTrotters]

Something I pointed out some time back.

We were going to collect an item from an eBay seller just inside the M25 a couple of months ago.!

We were going to collect en-route to the ferry at Portsmouth.

The seller was happy for us to collect up until midnight.

So the plan was to collect around 11:30pm.

Until the penny dropped and I said to Mrs.TM.

“This ikea bookshelf you want for £15 could cost us £415”

£200 going in and £200 out

 

[sonny]

In old London town before the coming of the Motorcar, Horses dumped 40 tons of manure everyday.
Now London is 100 times the size it was then, so pro rata! 4000 tons of poo per day, in the streets, combined with the several thousand tons of BS sprouted by the Polititians/Civil Service Wallahs/& Z list "celebs", London will be the Sh** capital of the world.

An apt description methinks.

But smell of Um roses?

 

[gus-lopez]

The biggest polluters of the lot are flying in and out of Heathrow every minute but do they get fined, no way.

Yes & when heathrow gets its 3rd runway London & the south/south-east has to have even more draconian emission limits to counteract the amount the extra planes are spewing out.

 

[Allanm]

Got group 1 for both the cars, group 2 for M/H, travel a lot in France, yet to see one on French vehicle.

There you go.

Got one on our car too.

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[Allanm]

Absolutely disgusting that they can get away with charging anybody that amount. Surely if they are forced to close the M25 then they should clearly mark a route to avoid the charge area as any stranger wouldn't have a clueas to which way to turn to avoid it.
The biggest polluters of the lot are flying in and out of Heathrow every minute but do they get fined, no way. I think its about time we started taking some lessons off the French

Generally, if roads are closed in France and traffic diverted onto toll roads, the toll is waived for everyone.

 

[joka250]

Not overly likely to enter ULEZ but out of interest checked my 2015 Euro 5+ Ducato. Web site quotes Euro6 as a minimum but tells me my vehicle is exempt. What am I missing.

 

[keithchesterfield2]

I have a Fiat Ducato 2.3 150 on a Pilote 2013 plate.
My MH is not exempt.
Thanks for the information - never did like London .... .

 

[Barclaybasher]

Hate the M25

Now use Newhaven, Portsmouth or Plymouth to France or Spain.......

.

 

[gus-lopez]

Hate the M25

Anyone remember the early days when you could race around it to see who could circumnavigate it in the shortest time ? Try that now. it could take you a day.

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[Wildbill]

My old van it's £100 a day don't like London or anything to do with it so will avoid
bill

 

[Barclaybasher]

My 1991 Eriba is £100 a day, the 2001 A Class £200 a day............

I don't care how much they offer I still don't want to go into London............

 

[Puddleduck]

I personally cannot see a practical long term solution unless we get rid of all forms of motive power and go back to horses etc and the general public do not travel anywhere.
Joe

We might have a problem with the droppings (I think the Victorians did!) but beautiful roses

Might go abroad via Newcastle next time.

 

[buttons]

Obviously you only see the negatives, I remember life Pre the M25 when getting anywhere east to west or west to east was a days outing. The M25 even with it's failings has transformed the most densely populated part of the British Isles, for the resident population living within it's corridor and the millions who use it in transit to the main UK hubs on the south coast.
The comparatively small area inside the M25 houses more people than the entire population of Lancashire Yorkshire and Wales combined. All they are asking is for a bit of air they can breath that wont destroy their kids lungs, is this too much to ask?

 

[buttons]

We might have a problem with the droppings (I think the Victorians did!) but beautiful roses

Might go abroad via Newcastle next time.

Abroad is a big area Puddleduck Depends which part of abroad you want to get too. Time, cost and convenience from Newcastle will play a major part in your decision making I guess...

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[WESTY66]

i wonder how London would cope if EVERYONE and EVERY COMPANY said sod it we’re not paying to go in there, trucks, coaches carrying tourists, contractors doing essential works and commuters, all of said NO we’re not going in. The capital would stop functioning, it would be on its knees.
And If it was killing my kids (what about aircraft????) I’d bloody well move!!!
I’m 52 and never been to London, nor do I intend to, the nearest I’ve got is the M25 going to chunnel and that’s out the window now, I’ll be using Stena Harwich-hook. As I said in a previous post it’s just a tax, otherwise you wouldn’t be allowed to “buy” your way in, it'd be electric or nothing.

 

[Parrot Face]

Really appreciate the warning.

 

[sdc77]

Wether you agree with the LEZ or not its there to stay and it will spread to other cities. The problem is the drivers from other parts of the UK are totally unfamiliar with the signage. Using the internet on the move isn't practical to everyone to research a sign ... Maybe the signage needs to be included in the theory test. Or maybe new signage needs to accompany renewed driving licences .. or something to educate people. You get fined less for punching a policeman.

 

[Puddleduck]

Abroad is a big area Puddleduck Depends which part of abroad you want to get too. Time, cost and convenience from Newcastle will play a major part in your decision making I guess...

Okay I should have said "anywhere in Europe". If there was still a service from Edinburgh /Rosyth we would consider that

Avoiding the M25 might also affect where we go in Europe !

 

[sdc77]

i wonder how London would cope if EVERYONE and EVERY COMPANY said sod it we’re not paying to go in there, trucks, coaches carrying tourists, contractors doing essential works and commuters, all of said NO we’re not going in. The capital would stop functioning, it would be on its knees.
And If it was killing my kids (what about aircraft????) I’d bloody well move!!!
I’m 52 and never been to London, nor do I intend to, the nearest I’ve got is the M25 going to chunnel and that’s out the window now, I’ll be using Stena Harwich-hook. As I said in a previous post it’s just a tax, otherwise you wouldn’t be allowed to “buy” your way in, it'd be electric or nothing.

Why is the M25 out of the window. LEZ doesn't apply on there. Just the Dart Charge

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[Ivory55]

Why is the M25 out of the window. LEZ doesn't apply on there. Just the Dart Charge

At a guess it’s because it’s a main artery for traffic. If it was in the zone imagine all the traffic diverting off through the towns etc it was designed to release

 

[sdc77]

At a guess it’s because it’s a main artery for traffic. If it was in the zone imagine all the traffic diverting off through the towns etc it was designed to release

We use it to get round to the chunnel at night ... (no dart charge) ... rarely get issues.
@WESTY66 Was saying they aren't going to use it any more ..just wondered why

 

[buttons]

Okay I should have said "anywhere in Europe". If there was still a service from Edinburgh /Rosyth we would consider that

Avoiding the M25 might also affect where we go in Europe !

The new tunnel will be along soon when normal service can be resumed...
Link Removed

 

[Puddleduck]

Why is the M25 out of the window. LEZ doesn't apply on there. Just the Dart Charge

More the problems that occur if you are diverted off the M25 and end up in the LEZ zone by mistake. The signs are clear if you know what they mean and can find somewhere to stop and turn round ...... but add a bit of anxiety, maybe in the dark, satnag squawking at you, traffic that is right up your boot and it is easy to find you are in the wrong place.

Sister-in-Law missed a sign in Milan and ended up in the centre (still not sure how she managed that but she did).

@buttons even with the new relief road it's a long way down through England for us. We only go that was as we have family near Cambridge where we stay overnight. If we were able to plan far enough in advance and book as soon as booking was open I would just book the longer crossing from further north. Unfortunately family circumstances don't allow for this.

 

[David and Sally]

All they are asking is for a bit of air they can breath that wont destroy their kids lungs, is this too much to ask?

No, a fair objective. Or move out of London to somewhere like I live where developers are ripping up the green belt using huge diesel-guzzling machines to build more house for Lord know who. Pollution and traffic jams happen here to.

OK. So a footballer paying the charge to run his Lambo at 10 mpg pays the charge cos he can afford to. Probably not worried in the slightest about the (outrageous) fines for accidentally entering the Forbidden City. The tradesman with a van just trying to make a living either has to indebt himself for a new van or pay the charge he can't really afford.? I sympathise for those just caught in the trap.

How about this. Trees are the lungs of the planet and excellent absorbers of CO2. Everyone inside the M25 who has slabbed over their driveway (causing flooding) so they can park their car has to plant trees instead. Win. Win. Win. Less cars in the area, less flooding and millions more trees. To make it more fun those living in Poplar Close have to plant Oaks, those in Cedar Grove plant Beech trees, etc etc . Not sure about what those living in Skinner's Bottom or Littlehampton Road do though. I'll work on that before I ring King Khan.

It's a serious subject but the charges are not the answer. If you want to pollute you just have to pay a tax. Maybe like is done in some countries - only even reg numbers are allowed to travel one day, odds the next.

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