Battery Master Alternative ??

cyberyacht said:
I'm a bit puzzled as to why to charging differential is 0.8V below the hab battery. I realise that lithiums are a bit higher resting voltage but I would have thought a maximum differential of 0.5V max would be better. Is there a reason?
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I suspect the differential is simply down to the voltage drop of a diode?

Certain other battery maintainers are programmed to maintain the Starter Battery at a certain level irrespective of the voltage of the Leisure Battery (with the proviso that it cannot be actually higher than the Leisure Battery as it regulates, not boosts the voltage). So if you want to maintain at 12.8V, it will set that as the ceiling. If you want it kept at 12.4V (typical for a vehicle with a Smart Alternator), it will set that as the ceiling.
 
eddievanbitz said:
Marauder Would you like a free Battery Master? I tagged you in case you didn’t see my replies👍🏻
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Marauder I have been told by the Ash at work that you have contacted Van Bitz asking for a free Battery Master, quoting my offer, so you saw my offer, but didn't bother to reply to me.

And there is me worried that as you'd gone all quiet that you may not have seen my post!
 
RedFrame said:
Have you looked at the Ablemail AMT12-2, can be setup pretty much any way you want.

AMT12-2 Trickle Charger charges Vehicle Battery from Leisure Battery with Solar Charger /Mains Hookup | Ablemail Electronics

The AMT12-2 has many names Trickle Charger, Battery Maintainer, Battery Saver, Reverse Charger, Top Up Charger, Battery Equaliser, but its purpose is to keep a Source / Vehicle Battery charged & protected from damage during prolonged periods of Vehicle, Boat & Motorhome inactivity or storage...
www.ablemail.co.uk www.ablemail.co.uk

Cheers
Red.
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Vote here for the AM12-2. Had one installed for a few months and keeps the vehicle battery exacty where i wanted it. I like the fact that you can change the settings if needed.

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eddievanbitz said:
@Marauder I have been told by the Ash at work that you have contacted Van Bitz asking for a free Battery Master, quoting my offer, so you saw my offer, but didn't bother to reply to me.

And there is me worried that as you'd gone all quiet that you may not have seen my post!
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Have you posted it yet, because I wouldn't bother.
 
Jim said:
Have you posted it yet, because I wouldn't bother.
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Harsh.. ?

I tried to look at when Marauder was last seen, but for some reason can't.

Surely he should be given chance to reply before you weigh in..?

Cheers
Red
 
RedFrame said:
Harsh.. ?

I tried to look at when Marauder was last seen, but for some reason can't.

Surely he should be given chance to reply before you weigh in..?

Cheers
Red
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Maybe...He was in on Saturday and at lunch time today, he saw the offer, which I thought was generous, given the situation. Fair Play.

He chose to claim it before saying thank you here. If I'm wrong and there is an explanation for not saying thank you, I'll apologise, I'm always big enough to do that. But I can't abide bad manners and call it when I see it.
 
Jim said:
Maybe...He was in on Saturday and at lunch time today, he saw the offer, which I thought was generous, given the situation. Fair Play.

He chose to claim it before saying thank you here. If I'm wrong and there is an explanation for not saying thank you, I'll apologise, I'm always big enough to do that. But I can't abide bad manners and call it when I see it.
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Totally agree, as I said, I couldn't see his "last seen" for some reason.

I hope that Marauder responds to this thread....

Cheers
Red.
 
RedFrame said:
Totally agree, as I said, I couldn't see his "last seen" for some reason.

I hope that Marauder responds to this thread....

Cheers
Red.
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I won't hold my breath!

But given he wouldn't deal with Van Bitz as he didn't like our replies to his email he was quick enough to contact the office and ask for his free Battery Master and ignore me.

Sadly, the office had to email him back and ask for his name as he'd forgotten to give the office his name:doh:

Seems it wasn't us lol

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.
Hi Funsters, Back again !

So I am now the proud owner of a VanBitz Battery Master, due to their special offer - a nice thing to do: Thanks Eddie.

But have not fitted it yet as other problems arrived.

I bought MPPT for the panels thinking it's advantage over PWM would keep batts charged through winter. Think again dumbo !

Panels are not in full sun, just bits of sun coming in thro windows (no thanks folks, I don't want to put them on the roof!)

When I connected the panels in, the Victron MPPT reported that it won't switch on till PV voltage is more than Batt voltage. But the readout shows same voltage for battery and for PV side. which leads me to wonder if it is actually measuring them separately ( would it be an amazing coincidence if they're both identical values?).

If the MPPT isn't telling me what the PV voltage actually is, that leaves the problem of what to do about it. It doesn't tell me how much the voltage needs raised by.

I briefly considered wiring the big panels in series to boost the voltage, but there's risk of overloading the MPPT max voltage if panels accidentally get more sun.

Another option may be to put smaller PV's in the available sun, wired direct to Hab Batt without any regulator. In this case the smaller panel would actually be in full sun and perform as designed, so at least some input would be getting to Batts while MH is standing in storage.

Some smaller eBay panels seem to have open circuit voltage of 19 or so volts -
- so what's max voltage that 12v Calcium Hab Batt can safely absorb ?

Or might a smaller panel in full sun go thro the MPPT as long as it outputs a bit more than Batt voltage ?

Can someone comment or see a better solution pls ?

So at the present time, still no PV input to Hab Batt, thus no surplus for BM to feed over to Cab Batt. I'm still putting an extra 100miles on the clock every 2 weeks driving MH down the motorway and back to push some charge into the Batts.

I originally hoped to fit a trickle device to back of the EBL99, but not yet confident in doing that correctly. So for now, I will put it across the Hab Batt with crocodile clip to Cab Batt while standing in storage. At least it should effectively enlarge the capacity available to Cab Batt - until they're both low ( perhaps 3 weeks instead of 2 )

Thanks Guys
_
 
Marauder said:
.
Hi Funsters, Back again !

So I am now the proud owner of a VanBitz Battery Master, due to their special offer - a nice thing to do: Thanks Eddie.

But have not fitted it yet as other problems arrived.
Click to expand...



Marauder said:
I bought MPPT for the panels thinking it's advantage over PWM would keep batts charged through winter. Think again dumbo !
Click to expand...
It gives around 30% better harvesting. but 30% more of sod all is still sod all
Marauder said:
Panels are not in full sun, just bits of sun coming in thro windows (no thanks folks, I don't want to put them on the roof!)
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If you have cast shadow on some of the panel, it can prevent the ENTIRE panel working
Marauder said:
When I connected the panels in, the Victron MPPT reported that it won't switch on till PV voltage is more than Batt voltage. But the readout shows same voltage for battery and for PV side. which leads me to wonder if it is actually measuring them separately ( would it be an amazing coincidence if they're both identical values?).
Click to expand...
Yes it will unless it is faulty or you have wired wrong. Check your wiring is correct.
For example this is the info for my roof panels and battery:
1670431801790.png

Marauder said:
If the MPPT isn't telling me what the PV voltage actually is, that leaves the problem of what to do about it. It doesn't tell me how much the voltage needs raised by.
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PV Voltage >5V more than battery voltage to wake up; >1V than battery to stay operational
Marauder said:
I briefly considered wiring the big panels in series to boost the voltage, but there's risk of overloading the MPPT max voltage if panels accidentally get more sun.
Click to expand...
if the Vmax of the panels in series is greater than the max voltage of the controller, you could go over the voltage in any sun
Marauder said:
Another option may be to put smaller PV's in the available sun, wired direct to Hab Batt without any regulator. In this case the smaller panel would actually be in full sun and perform as designed, so at least some input would be getting to Batts while MH is standing in storage.

Some smaller eBay panels seem to have open circuit voltage of 19 or so volts -
- so what's max voltage that 12v Calcium Hab Batt can safely absorb ?
Click to expand...
Ok. I am assuming that is either a bit of a joke question, otherwise you really need to get some advice from someone who knows what they are doing as it sounds like you are wondering if you can connect a 19V panel direct to the Battery??
Marauder said:
Or might a smaller panel in full sun go thro the MPPT as long as it outputs a bit more than Batt voltage ?

Can someone comment or see a better solution pls ?
Click to expand...
see above reply.
Marauder said:
So at the present time, still no PV input to Hab Batt, thus no surplus for BM to feed over to Cab Batt. I'm still putting an extra 100miles on the clock every 2 weeks driving MH down the motorway and back to push some charge into the Batts.

I originally hoped to fit a trickle device to back of the EBL99, but not yet confident in doing that correctly. So for now, I will put it across the Hab Batt with crocodile clip to Cab Batt while standing in storage. At least it should effectively enlarge the capacity available to Cab Batt - until they're both low ( perhaps 3 weeks instead of 2 )

Thanks Guys
_
Click to expand...
 
Marauder said:
So at the present time, still no PV input to Hab Batt, thus no surplus for BM to feed over to Cab Batt. I'm still putting an extra 100miles on the clock every 2 weeks driving MH down the motorway and back to push some charge into the Batts.
Click to expand...
The Battery Master doesn't need to see a surplus of power to feed from hab to starter, it simply needs to see a differential in voltage so when there is around 0.6-0.7v difference the BM will trickle a little bit to the starter battery.
 
Marauder said:
Another option may be to put smaller PV's in the available sun, wired direct to Hab Batt without any regulator. In this case the smaller panel would actually be in full sun and perform as designed, so at least some input would be getting to Batts while MH is standing in storage.

Some smaller eBay panels seem to have open circuit voltage of 19 or so volts -
- so what's max voltage that 12v Calcium Hab Batt can safely absorb ?
Click to expand...
The problem is not so much the voltage as the total power. A small panel up to 10W, can be wired directly to the batteries. It won't get up to the 'open circuit' voltage because the battery will pull it down as it draws current from the panel. A panel up to 10W is quite commonly used direct to the battery with no regulator, and some even use a 20W panel like that, in winter. But anything bigger needs a regulator.

Which Victron MPPT is it? I would have thought they would all cope with two 22V panels in series. But if the panels are part-shaded, that won't be a solution to your problem. As Hoovie says, if any part is shaded, the output of the whole panel falls to a very low value. And it affects both panels if they are in series.
 
Stealaway said:
Is this an alternative?
Should I have one?

www.batterymegastore.co.uk

Victron Energy Cyrix-ct 12/24V 120A Intelligent Battery Combiner - CYR010120011R

Victron Energy Cyrix-ct 12/24V 120A Intelligent Battery Combiner - CYR010120011R product brought to you by BMS Technologies LTD Offering free next working day delivery.
www.batterymegastore.co.uk www.batterymegastore.co.uk
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You could do, but the problem using a 180 amp relay is that the quiescent drain to energise the coil would flatten any battery over a couple of days
 
I’ve had work done by Vanbitz and received very good service. I’ve also purchased equipment from Sterling and had equally good service and telephone support.
 
stevewagner said:
I’ve had work done by Vanbitz and received very good service. I’ve also purchased equipment from Sterling and had equally good service and telephone support.
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No no no it's only if you slag off the service you get offered freebies. No good being complimentary. :LOL::LOL:
 
Hoovie said:
Yes it will unless it is faulty or you have wired wrong. Check your wiring is correct.
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.
wiring is just pos & neg (via Anderson powerpole connectors) from MPPT (Victron100/20) to Hab Batt, and same from MPPT to panels - nothing else. (but I will check it again)
And it's brand new - only connected once to date . . . . .
MPPT has earth conn on side of casing, I didnt connect it coz neg is same as earth, and the smaller Victron MPPT dont have one anyway.
_

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Hoovie said:
Ok. I am assuming that is either a bit of a joke question, otherwise you really need to get some advice from someone who knows what they are doing as it sounds like you are wondering if you can connect a 19V panel direct to the Battery??
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.
This was feedback on a '12v' eBay panel. Buyer was pleased, reporting that he'd measured the output from the panel at 19v.
This kinda worried me, wondering if 19v would fry my Hab Batt(s).

( And chargers do routinely put 14.4v into '12v' batteries )

Also there are a large range of claimed power outputs, from 2.5w upwards. I wonder how accurately the claimed outputs can be relied upon..
Certainly, the panels with no 'extras' - ( you have to solder your own cable directly to rear of panel ) - are a LOT cheaper !
_
 
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Hoovie said:
PV Voltage >5V more than battery voltage to wake up; >1V than battery to stay operational
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.
So if MPPT needs 17v from panel to wake it up, then reported 19v output doesn't seem that dangerous to my Habb Batts ?
( or if Batt is already 13v, then would need 18v from panel to wake the MPPT up )
_
 
Marauder said:
.
So if MPPT needs 17v from panel to wake it up, then reported 19v output doesn't seem that dangerous to my Habb Batts ?
( or if Batt is already 13v, then would need 18v from panel to wake the MPPT up )
_
Click to expand...
No. Sorry, you are not getting it. the >5V to wake up (so >17V on the panel if the battery is at 12V) is not a voltage going to the battery, it is a voltage going into the Solar Controller. The 17V is an INPUT to the controller, and NOT an Output to the battery.

Marauder said:
.
This was feedback on a '12v' eBay panel. Buyer was pleased, reporting that he'd measured the output from the panel at 19v.
This kinda worried me, wondering if 19v would fry my Hab Batt(s).

( And chargers do routinely put 14.4v into '12v' batteries )

Also there are a large range of claimed outputs, from 2.5w upwards. I wonder how accurately the claimed outputs can be relied upon..
Certainly, the panels with no 'extras' - ( you have to solder your own cable directly to rear of panel ) - are a LOT cheaper !
_
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This is the problem, a "12V" panel does NOT output at 12V. What it meant by a "12V" panel is a panel suitable to provide power to a 12V system (via a suitable controller to lower the voltage to a suitable level).
A "12V" panel would be no use to a 24V system as the voltage is too low - charge controllers will only ever lower a PV voltage, never raise them.

yes, a "12V" battery can be 14.4V - a charge voltage for many 12V Batteries is 14.7V for example, but you should never keep the voltage at that level for any long duration of time. when a battery charger is at the 14.4V/14.7V type of level, they are in the "absorption" mode of the charge cycle. The maximum duration of battery is happy to be kept at this level varies by battery (check the spec sheets for yours) but is typically between 5 to 8 hours. Picture that battery with a nice 19V voltage on it for a while? lovely :)
People on this thread have said "sure, if the panel is low power, you can bypass a controller". That is up to them. I think that is very poor advice, but that is my opinion. If they say that is wrong, fine, doesn't bother me, but I would a) never do it, b) never suggest it and c) never install a panel setup like that even if directly asked to. I've replaced batteries that are just a year old where people have followed that advice.
If you want to do that, go for it! (maybe Eddie will give you a free battery next year? ;) )
 
autorouter said:
The problem is not so much the voltage as the total power. A small panel up to 10W, can be wired directly to the batteries. It won't get up to the 'open circuit' voltage because the battery will pull it down as it draws current from the panel. A panel up to 10W is quite commonly used direct to the battery with no regulator, and some even use a 20W panel like that, in winter. But anything bigger needs a regulator.

Which Victron MPPT is it? I would have thought they would all cope with two 22V panels in series. But if the panels are part-shaded, that won't be a solution to your problem. As Hoovie says, if any part is shaded, the output of the whole panel falls to a very low value. And it affects both panels if they are in series.
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.
Throughout all this journey into the horrors of electrickery, at the back of my mind is changing vans in Summer 2023. Anything I buy might already be on nextvan. My 2 panels are hinged portables - not really suitable for roof. MPPT is Victron 100/20. OCV of panels is 60v.

Irrelevant though, coz they're getting nowhere near full sun.

So I'm still at the original problem from year ago: how to keep batts reasonably healthy, without needlessly adding mileage.
_

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Marauder said:
.
when I enquired about this point, Jacksons Leisure told me these are only for equalising banks of [leisure] batteries
_
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the Cyrix CT Battery Combiner is absolutely NOT for equalising banks of leisure batteries.

I think you might confused it with another Victron product you have mentioned sometime - the battery balancer? that is used to balance 12V batteries on a 24V, 36V or 48V battery bank - again a very different product irrelevant to your setup.
 
Marauder said:
.
Throughout all this journey into the horrors of electrickery, at the back of my mind is changing vans in Summer 2023. Anything I buy might already be on nextvan. My 2 panels are hinged portables - not really suitable for roof. MPPT is Victron 100/20. OCV of panels is 60v.

Irrelevant though, coz they're getting nowhere near full sun.
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I think there is a common assumption that you only get the higher voltages produced at the higher power harvesting. This is not the case. To illustrate this, my panels from yesterday .... The voltages bounce around between 16V-23V, and the current between 0A to 1.9A. But the pattern of the two values don't coincide or follow any apparent logic. I've highlighted two times below, one where the voltage is high and current is low; the other is reversed. And you can find other times where both are high and both are low. The controller will be having some effect on this, yes, but ...
The point being - don't assume it is ok to connect a potential +20V source to a 12V battery because it isn't very sunny!
 

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Hoovie said:
the Cyrix CT Battery Combiner is absolutely NOT for equalising banks of leisure batteries.

I think you might confused it with another Victron product you have mentioned sometime - the battery balancer? that is used to balance 12V batteries on a 24V, 36V or 48V battery bank - again a very different product irrelevant to your setup.
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ok - my mistake
 
Hoovie said:
The maximum duration of battery is happy to be kept at this level varies by battery (check the spec sheets for yours) but is typically between 5 to 8 hours. Picture that battery with a nice 19V voltage on it for a while? lovely :)
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.
So do you think one of these: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/29268267...d=link&campid=5338547443&toolid=20001&mkevt=1 which WOULD fit inside my available sunlight patch,
drive one of these: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/25468541...d=link&campid=5338547443&toolid=20001&mkevt=1 and give any meaningful yield ?
_
 
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Marauder said:
.
So do you think one of these: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/29268267...d=link&campid=5338547443&toolid=20001&mkevt=1 which WOULD fit inside my available sunlight patch,
drive one of these: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/25468541...d=link&campid=5338547443&toolid=20001&mkevt=1 and give any meaningful yield ?
_
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Meaningful? no. That graph I showed was for 270W of solar and I am lucky this time of year if I get 40W at any time in the day.

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