Battery maintainer with Lithium leisure battery

[Hoovie]

I had a look at the description and specs. Can the discharge floor be changed from 11,5v to 12v ?

Not by the end user.

Probably going to much into the weeds here but anyway.....
There are essentially 3 levels of programming on the AMT.
1) The end user e.g. Motorhome owner choses which preset they want to use and suits them out of the selection available.
2) With a data lead and PC, or Bluetooth Dongle (ABB) and Phone App, it is possible to reprogramme most of the chosen parameters (within technical limits) . The data lead and ABB dongle are extra-cost items however.
3) The entire unit can be reprogrammed in the factory and the EEPROM rewritten so there there could be a whole selection of different presets for a particular environment.

Being a Fully programmable device it is much more flexible than a fixed hardware unit.

 

[burtonwisher]

To update where I ended up with this....
I did install the Sterling BM12123 and used it for a couple of weeks. The problem though, as expected, was that becuase the 'turn on threshhold' is when the leisure battery is over 13.3v, it was esentially on all the time with my lithium leisure batteries. I didn't want this as I only want it 'on' when the leisure batteries are receiving some charge from somewhere.
So I took the Sterling out and replaced it with the Ablemail AM-12 and the ABB-07 bluetooth dongle. This works perfectly for me as it's fully programable with an appropriate program for my lithium setup. It's on when I want it to be on, and off when I don't. I also have great visibility and control through the bluetooth.
So after some trial and error and testing 3 different devices over a period of time, the Ablemail AM-12 is the clear winner for me.
The bluetooth dongle isn't essential but I like to see what's going on and have some level of control with these things.
Credit to both Ablemail themselves for their excellent advice, and Wildebus who I purchased the devices from for their support and overall great customer service.

 

[andy63]

Nice to have an update.. and it sounds good... I have the Stirling unit fitted in my van and as you say its on most of the time.. atm when the van is idle I have just pulled the fuses on it..
Andy

 

[Doobray]

I fitted the ablemail they have a new one out with 6 presets rather than 4 it is designed for higher current drain. Works well with my lithium

 

[burtonwisher]

Yes indeed, I have the new one, it has 8 preset programs, 4 with higher power for parasitic drain situations, and 4 with standard power, all with options depending if leisure batteries are lithium or Lead, and if the vehicle has a standard or smart alternator.
I selected program 2, which is the standard power output program for used with lithium leisure batteries and a standard alternator.

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[Doobray]

Yes indeed, I have the new one, it has 8 preset programs, 4 with higher power for parasitic drain situations, and 4 with standard power, all with options depending if leisure batteries are lithium or Lead, and if the vehicle has a standard or smart alternator.
I selected program 2, which is the standard power output program for used with lithium leisure batteries and a standard alternator.

I Emailed Ablemail with my setup and they came back with 2 or 6 as the settings. Your right it is 8.

 

[Hoovie]

yup, the original AMTs had 4 programs, but after some discussions and some testing I did, we thought it would be good to have a extended range (the higher power ones are useful especially for some setups where the converters have dash radios that bypass the ignition switch).

And in fact, as well as the 8 programs, there is a handy override (kind of an 9th program) that makes the AMT active for around 90% or so which can be handy for an occasional Starter Battery Booster even when no Leisure charging happening (This is available via a cable connection so can be made available easily by wiring up via a switch if you wanted)

 

[BillandHelen]

Hoovie, I’ve got 200amp of NDS lithium charged with 60amp b2b and NDS solar regulator which also trickle charges my Mercedes van starter battery which appears to be quite hungry with vehicle electronics/alarm/tracker! wanting to install an Ablemail battery maintainer, would that work for my needs of keeping starter battery charged whilst in storage?

 

[Hoovie]

Hoovie, I’ve got 200amp of NDS lithium charged with 60amp b2b and NDS solar regulator which also trickle charges my Mercedes van starter battery which appears to be quite hungry with vehicle electronics/alarm/tracker! wanting to install an Ablemail battery maintainer, would that work for my needs of keeping starter battery charged whilst in storage?

Hi,
In storage, do you have charging available? EHU, solar working (is it under cover storage?)?

The Ablemail AMT has a profile to trickle a Starter Battery which has a higher then typical drain from a setup with Lithium, so yes I would say it would do the job when you are charging the van from solar or mains.

Does the Solar Regulator not provide enough trickle charge or not suitable?

 

[BillandHelen]

Thanks Hoovie, storage is outside and no charging capability. Solar is wired to trickle charge once lithium is full, ok in sunny weather, but up here in Scotland from Autumn on it’s not enough to keep all batteries healthy. Before swapping to lithium we always had a CBE maintainer fitted for our lead acid batteries which did the trick. As others have said, Roadpro who installed our lithium told us that Votronic and Sterling both said theirs was unsuitable for lithium. Hopefully the AMT will do the trick?

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[Hoovie]

The profiles for the trickle charging of the starter are based on the van having some kind of charging available.
If you want to maintain the Starter without any charge coming in, you will be relying on the Lithium Batteries providing that energy and so they will get depleted in the process if that goes on for too long.
I know Solar is not much cop in the winter in Scotland (I am around 35 miles south of you) but should do something as far as maintenance charge.

End of the day, yes you can set the AMT to trickle the starter without any charging but you need to consider where that energy is derived from.

The AMT does also have an "emergency" feature where if the starter battery gets too low, then it activates to trickle from the Leisure even without any charge coming in, with the idea being better to use both batteries energy rather then letting one die. And then the next level down, if the leisure gets too low is the AMT stops to save the Leisure.
But this is meant to be an emergency thing. How long are your periods of storage? if a couple of weeks and then it gets used and the Lithiums and Starter both get a decent charge (a 60A B2B will do a great job with the lithiums quickly) then yes, good option. If storage is a few months in winter then I don't think there are any options other then disconnecting the starter to eliminate the drain - but you loose the alarm and tracker so that is not really a good option either.

 

[BillandHelen]

Hi, just 2 to 3 weeks in winter, we continue to use the van all year round, so hopefully should work.

 

[Hoovie]

Hi, just 2 to 3 weeks in winter, we continue to use the van all year round, so hopefully should work.

Perfect.
The high drain setting should work great for you.
(I found the standard/original settings a bit low after I installed a new Android Head Unit which took around an Amp constantly even when off due to Autotrails radio power rewiring. So after some discussions, introduced the new group of settings for that kind of situation (which would apply equally if you had an Alarm & Tracker causing the drain).
The AMT is listed here - https://wildebus.com/product/ablemail-amt-12-battery-maintainer/ - and includes wiring.

 

[seanwinder22]

Sorry for bringing this back up but I’m in a similar situation. I’m upgrading to lithium but have the vanbitz installed at the moment
So will this device be ok to keep in my lithium set up or will I need the amt-12

 

[Tombola]

Sorry for bringing this back up but I’m in a similar situation. I’m upgrading to lithium but have the vanbitz installed at the moment
So will this device be ok to keep in my lithium set up or will I need the amt-12

To keep you starter battery topped up from the leisure Lithiums do you mean.
Yes.

I have this set up

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[Ingwe]

Sorry for bringing this back up but I’m in a similar situation. I’m upgrading to lithium but have the vanbitz installed at the moment
So will this device be ok to keep in my lithium set up or will I need the amt-12

We had a Battery Master fitted when we had one lead acid leisure battery. Now have two 110ah lithium batteries and the BM is perfect for keeping the starter battery topped up. So no need to change the BM.

 

[pete4x4]

I think you need to look at what voltage you want to maintain your starter battery, the BM provides the starter battery with a voltage that is 0.7v below the leisure battery.
Now we all know that Lithium output is flatish over its discharge range however when it gets to around 60% SOC it will be 13.06 volts or so so the starter battery is now at 12.4. When it gets to 30% SOC 12.9v ish so starter battery 12.2v.
I use a Ablemail that maintains 12.7v to the starter battery until Lithium reachs 12.7v then its disabled.

So BM or Ablemail it depends on what you want your starter battery to do.

 

[Tombola]

So BM or Ablemail it depends on what you want your starter battery to do

and if you have solar keeping your leisure topped up

 

[seanwinder22]

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I think you need to look at what voltage you want to maintain your starter battery, the BM provides the starter battery with a voltage that is 0.7v below the leisure battery.
Now we all know that Lithium output is flatish over its discharge range however when it gets to around 60% SOC it will be 13.06 volts or so so the starter battery is now at 12.4. When it gets to 30% SOC 12.9v ish so starter battery 12.2v.
I use a Ablemail that maintains 12.7v to the starter battery until Lithium reachs 12.7v then its disabled.

So BM or Ablemail it depends on what you want your starter battery to do.

thanks buddy and this is why I asked because I did read this on the wildbus forum so yea the vanbitz won’t be any good for me

 

[pete4x4]

and if you have solar keeping your leisure topped up

I had 4 weeks at the start of the year where I had no solar charging because the temperature was below 5C

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[Tombola]

I had 4 weeks at the start of the year where I had no solar charging because the temperature was below 5C

Understood, yeah problem.....also depends what lithium you have on the charge cut off, but a lithium battery will last for months and lose very little charge, depends how much drain the starter will pull from it.
did you make a typo above at 60% Lithium then starter will be at 12.4,,I thought a full Lithium was 13.3 - 4

 

[Pausim]

I had 4 weeks at the start of the year where I had no solar charging because the temperature was below 5C

I don’t think the temperature has anything to do with it, lack of sun, shorter daylight hours and the angle of the sun are what limits winter solar.

 

[funflair]

I don’t think the temperature has anything to do with it, lack of sun, shorter daylight hours and the angle of the sun are what limits winter solar.
View attachment 659249

Yes but most LiFePO4 don't like to be charged at less than 5 deg, our solar regulator will not output when the batteries are less than 5 deg I think this is what Pete4x4 is referring to.

 

[pete4x4]

Yes but most LiFePO4 don't like to be charged at less than 5 deg, our solar regulator will not output when the batteries are less than 5 deg I think this is what Pete4x4 is referring to.

Absolutely, nothing more frustrating when in glorious winter sun and the temperature is less than 5C, no charger output from any device with a lithium profile.
Clearly if you are in the van using it then it shouldnt be a problem but if its in storage and I have a fully internet connected monitoring system that consumes 5W so my battery will go flat after about 10 days. This year I switched it all off until it warmed up, I also went to Spain for 3 months just after

 

[Clive Mott]

The ideal charging regime for LiFeP04 is charge up to 14.6 volts then simply switch off tbe charger. Never have anything with a maintenance or desulphating program as these will harm the lithium battery. Stopping charge at 14.7 volts is inside most published tolerance bands. Similarly stopping charge at 14.4 volts will almost fully charge the lithium battery. You wont notice any difference!.
The Switch back on voltage for lithium will be around 13.5 volts. 13.8 is a tad high but many seem to get away with it.
Dont forget that these add on devices to trickle a bit into the starter battery always lose about half a volt.
BUT
How many people have reported a failed lithium battery?

I await the first readers letter reporting this. The lifespan of LiFeP04 is so much more than lead acid and it seems many of us a getting away with it as a direct drop in replacement.

I did get my 45A B2B re-programmed for lithium and part of the lithium algorythm is to not enable charging until the battery temperature is above zero, using a temperature sensor bolted to the battery negative terminal.

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[funflair]

Absolutely, nothing more frustrating when in glorious winter sun and the temperature is less than 5C, no charger output from any device with a lithium profile.
Clearly if you are in the van using it then it shouldnt be a problem but if its in storage and I have a fully internet connected monitoring system that consumes 5W so my battery will go flat after about 10 days. This year I switched it all off until it warmed up, I also went to Spain for 3 months just after

Does your van really get that cold inside with "glorious winter sun" I know ours doesn't, I have seen the solar not charging due to temperature once and that was only for a couple of days.

 

[pete4x4]

Does your van really get that cold inside with "glorious winter sun" I know ours doesn't, I have seen the solar not charging due to temperature once and that was only for a couple of days.

Yes sadly, in Northamptonshire this year early January was well below zero overnight and between 1& 2 degrees during the day for a significant duration, the insulation stopped the sun warming the inside under the seat up and the battery has large thermal mass.