Battery and Solar advice please

[Lenny HB]

The EBL119, like many EBLs, monitor the battery current via an internal shunt. The solar regulator input, the auxiliary charger input, the mains charger output and the alternator output all pass through the internal shunt to the leisure batteries, so their current is monitored.

Last EBL with current monitoring I had was 2008 they don't do it anymore apart from very expensive top end models you won't see it in a 100k van. The control panels are are only led bar voltage displays that's why a lot of us fit battery monitors now.

 

[Neckender]

I've priced up the cost of 2 x AGMs and they come out quite a bit more than 2 x gels which surprised me.

We've got the Thetford T1090 fridge like this: https://www.thetford-europe.com/product/t1090/

It looks like the mk1 same as we have the instructions say run on 3* but ours defrosts itself on that setting, I’ve found that 4* on permanent night setting works best for us.

John.

 

[jezport]

The EBL119, like many EBLs, monitor the battery current via an internal shunt. The solar regulator input, the auxiliary charger input, the mains charger output and the alternator output all pass through the internal shunt to the leisure batteries, so their current is monitored.

No They dont in the EBL 119, solar is straight through, there is no internal shunt for current measurement, and there is no display to view current.

 

[Pausim]

The wiring diagrams for the 29, 109 and 119 EBLs all show a shunt on the leisure battery positive which appears to lead to terminals via poly switches. On my 29 I have always assumed it is a facility for a more complicated control panel that I don’t have.

 

[funflair]

OK people cleverer than me (that's most of you) I am trying to read the wiring diagram for the EBL 119 yes I can see a shunt I can try to follow wires BUT, I know they can just cross with no connection and I know a connection is a black spot but what does the wires into a circle indicate? for example at A1 A2 A3 please.

Martin

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[Lenny HB]

The wiring diagrams for the 29, 109 and 119 EBLs all show a shunt on the leisure battery positive which appears to lead to terminals via poly switches. On my 29 I have always assumed it is a facility for a more complicated control panel that I don’t have.

I stand corrected just looked at the diagrams for a EBL29 & EBL 30 they both have shunts but very seldom used.
Hymer do not fit a panel that makes use of the shunts in any of there models, even if you spend £130k on an SL you still get a crap display panel.

 

[Pausim]

I stand corrected just looked at the diagrams for a EBL29 & EBL 30 they both have shunts but very seldom used.
Hymer do not fit a panel that makes use of the shunts in any of there models, even if you spend £130k on an SL you still get a crap display panel.

Which battery monitor do you favour? I am leaning towards the Votronic shunt/monitor because it has LiFePO4 settings.

 

[Lenny HB]

Which battery monitor do you favour? I am leaning towards the Votronic shunt/monitor because it has LiFePO4 settings.

I have the Victron BMV700 with the Bluetooth dongle. This can also be set up for LiFeP04 batteries. I think with the bluetooth dongle it gives more info than the Victron also a neater display I just poped mine in in place of a mains socket.

 

[autorouter]

I know they can just cross with no connection and I know a connection is a black spot but what does the wires into a circle indicate? for example at A1 A2 A3 please.

It's the boundary of the circuit board. Most of the sockets (squares with pin numbers) are directly soldered to the circuit board. Some of the connections, especially the heavy current ones to the battery, are wires directly soldered to the board. These connections are shown as circles.

90% of the diagram is one single board. The other board is the charger (LASO 1218), which is not shown in great detail on the diagram, so it is drawn smaller. It's actually nearly as big as the main board.

Apart from my own motorhome (Hymer 2006), most of what I see is from the documentation, rather than from real systems, so others with hands-on experience will have a better idea how they fit into motorhome electrical systems.

The internal shunt is one of those ideas that was great ten years ago, but with multiple solar panels, big battery banks and inverters it is a bit of an evolutionary dead end, I think.

 

[SandraL]

We have just changed from schaudt lr1218 pwm to votronic mppt. The increase in low light charge is huge.
Another benefit is that the starter charge is not set by the leisure batt settings. So with gel for leisure at >14 v the starter still charges at 13.8.
If going the votronic route the temp sensor is worth purchasing even at the inflated price. This gives higher leisure batt volts when cold , standard settings at 20 deg c and reduces the volts above 20 deg c to protect battery.
Yes I,m a happy convert to votronic mppt.
Only downside for ebl users is no indication of charge current to starter batt.

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[funflair]

It's the boundary of the circuit board. Most of the sockets (squares with pin numbers) are directly soldered to the circuit board. Some of the connections, especially the heavy current ones to the battery, are wires directly soldered to the board. These connections are shown as circles.

90% of the diagram is one single board. The other board is the charger (LASO 1218), which is not shown in great detail on the diagram, so it is drawn smaller. It's actually nearly as big as the main board.

Apart from my own motorhome (Hymer 2006), most of what I see is from the documentation, rather than from real systems, so others with hands-on experience will have a better idea how they fit into motorhome electrical systems.

The internal shunt is one of those ideas that was great ten years ago, but with multiple solar panels, big battery banks and inverters it is a bit of an evolutionary dead end, I think.

Thanks for that maybe they should draw the boundary of the board in a different line so as to not confuse me makes more sense now.

Cheers

Martin

 

[Pausim]

I have the Victron BMV700 with the Bluetooth dongle. This can also be set up for LiFeP04 batteries. I think with the bluetooth dongle it gives more info than the Victron also a neater display I just poped mine in in place of a mains socket.

Interesting, thank you. I already have a Victron bluetooth dongle attached to my inverter but the information it gives is limited. I would happily move the dongle to a BMV700 where the information is more comprehensive. The dongle works with the inverter without a permanent display and I am wondering whether It would also work with the BMV shunt without a display attached. This would save finding a home for the display and the shunts are a lot cheaper on their own without the kit.

 

[Lenny HB]

Interesting, thank you. I already have a Victron bluetooth dongle attached to my inverter but the information it gives is limited. I would happily move the dongle to a BMV700 where the information is more comprehensive. The dongle works with the inverter without a permanent display and I am wondering whether It would also work with the BMV shunt without a display attached. This would save finding a home for the display and the shunts are a lot cheaper on their own without the kit.

The dongle for the BMV plugs into the display, I don't think it is the same dongle.

 

[gerry mcg]

this is the BT dongle that i use with the BMV700 - https://www.victronenergy.com/accessories/ve-direct-bluetooth-smart-dongle
as @Lenny HB says, it plugs into the BMV700 display, so i suspect it won't work without the BMV700

 

[Silver-Fox]

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/shrink-speak/201411/homeland-true-portrayal-mental-illness

Still not seeing the wood for the trees unfortunately
I was expecting the batteries to be used as some kind of torture or sexual act.
Just shows how my mind works

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[kelpie]

So will I be next year so you see the hours are not to be wasted.

FUN is my indulgence for time wasting.

Be like me and develop arithmetic dyslexia , I'm now 56.
John

 

[hilldweller]

I was expecting the batteries to be used as some kind of torture or sexual act.
Just shows how my mind works

Doesn't it just.

Not that I have any idea of what you are talking about.

 

[two]

Which battery monitor do you favour? I am leaning towards the Votronic shunt/monitor because it has LiFePO4 settings.

Most battery monitors measure the current in and out of the battery bank (and are often referred to as ‘Amp-counters’). They use Peukert’s exponent to compensate for losses when rapid discharges take place (and you’ll need to put more back in than you took out). Victron (and Nasa) allow you to input the Peukert’s exponent for your bank. In the case of LifePO batteries, there are very little losses and I’d enter 1.1 or even 1.0. I don’t think there needs to be a special setting.

 

[Minxy]

Okay guys and gals ... my new leisure batteries have arrived and will be fitted next week by a local dealer so I'll be looking to install my solar stuff shortly thereafter. I've got everything I need/sorted with the exception of the following:

• a feed from the Votronic via a 3-way plug into the EBL 119 to charge up the hab batteries
• a separate feed cable from the Voltronic to the EBL 119 to top-up the cab battery as this doesn't work via the 'plug'

I assume I can just utilise some of the excess cable from the solar panels for the cab battery feed so therefore just need to order the 3-way plug and this is where I'm looking for a bit of help.

I understand that I need a plug that has a high amp rating but having looked at the Tyko Mate-n-lok info they appear to be 17 amp rather than 20 amp mentioned by others previously so I'm concerned that I may be looking at the wrong ones. I've spotted these on Ebay so can someone tell me if this is what I need (well one half of it anyway!)?

The Universal MATE-N-LOK connector system is a robust and highly reliable connector system that utilizes a combination of pins and sockets in the plug and cap housings to achieve the maximum electrical performance in .250” (6.35mm) centreline pitch.​

Key Features:
.250 (6.35) centreline
600 VAC or VDC, 17 Amp maximum
2-4 In-Line positions
6, 9, 12, 15 matrix​

​

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-TE-Tyco-1-to-15-Way-MATE-N-LOK-Electrical-Wiring-Multi-Connectors/142033050277?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&var=441135702658&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

 

[Minxy]

Update to my solar install.

I was going to put on 2 x rigid 100w panels but in the end found some good quality semi-flexible ones so decided to fit those instead ... we've had a 60w semi-flexible one on our old camper for 3 years without a problem and it's still working well, so hopefully these will be just as good. These were a lot easier to fit than rigid ones would have been and as we have a PVC with a 'corrugated' roof it allows air flow underneath so overheating shouldn't be an issue.

I put fitted the Votronic Duo 250 regulator next to the EBL for ease with the + and - leads from the solar panels joined into the 'input' points with individual in-line fuses which were left out whilst I completed the rest of the cabling as they HAVE to be connected last otherwise there is a risk of 'frying' the regulator!

For charging the cab battery I made a lead with an in-line fuse, connecting one end to the + cab battery point on the regulator (called 'start') and the other to the + terminal on the battery.

The charging of the hab batteries is done via the EBL so I made a 2-wire connection lead with a Mate-n-Lok (MnL) 3-way connector on one end and connected the wires to the regulator hab battery + and - points (called 'board') and pushed the MnL connector into the solar slot on the EBL.

I double checked everything ... (well nearly .... see my other thread!) and whilst doing the install used my multi-meter to check the cables between each stage of the installation to ensure that there were no breaks/other issues.

Once all sorted I put back all the bits and bobs of covers/panels etc and after sorting out what turned out to be a simple 'fuse' issue (in the wrong ruddy slot! ) everything works perfectly, the panels are working extremely well keeping the hab and cab batteries fully charged.

Once it was 'proven' I then sealed up the ends of the trunking etc on the roof and made it all tidy and totally watertight.

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[tonyidle]

Solar

Whilst I've already ordered my solar panels I need to get a controller for them which has to be a Schaudt LR1218 (PWM), Schaudt LRM1218 (MPPT), or a suitable alternative which is compatible with the EBL if I connect it to that, or alternatively have one without going through the EBL but it has to then somehow be linked to both the hab and cab batteries.

I'm looking into this at the moment. As far as l can see the data link from an EBL compatible controller is there simply so that your display panel can show solar separate from any other charge source. My thinking is that when solar is important to me there is no other charge source so the part of the display that shows current when on EHU would provide appropriate info when on solar. So l intend to connect the output of my solar controller to the aux. charging connector on the EBL which will then display solar current / voltage as though I was on EHU. This isn't something I've fully thought through yet so comments welcome.

 

[Minxy]

I can see what you're saying about the EHU display, but isn't the actual battery level more important than solar input? Whilst it's nice to see what the solar panels are producing I'd rather have an accurate battery level display ... have you got a battery level display for your cab and hab batteries already?

 

[SandraL]

Tonyidle, .I dont know which ebl you have.
On ours there is a battery shunt in the ebl so whatever is charging goes thro the shunt. The display shows the overall charge or discharge.
Seperately the solar charge only can be displayed.
The solar input to the ebl has a fuse on the ebl.
I see no advantage to wiring solar output to the secondary charger input although it would work ok electrically but might confuse the next owner.

 

[tonyidle]

I can see what you're saying about the EHU display, but isn't the actual battery level more important than solar input? Whilst it's nice to see what the solar panels are producing I'd rather have an accurate battery level display ... have you got a battery level display for your cab and hab batteries already?

No. My display has a charge level %age display based on the battery capacity that l input. So far it tells me what l need to know. I do like to see what the solar is doing though - it's just that l can't see the point of a separate data feed.

 

[tonyidle]

Tonyidle, .I dont know which ebl you have.
On ours there is a battery shunt in the ebl so whatever is charging goes thro the shunt. The display shows the overall charge or discharge.
Seperately the solar charge only can be displayed.
The solar input to the ebl has a fuse on the ebl.
I see no advantage to wiring solar output to the secondary charger input although it would work ok electrically but might confuse the next owner.

You're right! I don't know why l thought it didn't. So I can feed the o/p of the solar regulator (any solar regulator) into BL5 / 3 and see the current from the solar without bothering with the extra connection that shows solar separately.

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