LiFePO4 batteries are probably safer than lead acid ones. No more likely to catch fire and not full of a dangerous acid that can give off poisonous/explosive gases.
Batteries
- Thread starter alanalmoff
- Start date
The VRLA in sealed batteries stands for valve regulated lead acid. If pressure builds up inside the battery the valve releases the pressure and the dangerous gases, otherwise the battery would split open releasing the acid.
LiFePO4 chemistry is extremely stable and should not be confused with other lithium chemistries based on cobalt oxide, manganese oxide, and nickel oxide formulations. The BMS gives additional protection to the cells but is not fundamental to their safety. LiFePO4 batteries are also non-toxic, non-contaminating, and contain no rare earth metals.
My motorhome contains a VRLA engine battery and a LiFePO4 leisure battery. Both are safe is used properly but if something went wrong the VRLA engine battery is the one I would likely be running away from.
I have attached the data sheet for the Leoch pure lead carbon battery. Its charging profile is that for a bog standard lead Acid battery.
It has impressive performance statistics but very little end user reviews have been published that I am aware of. However, a lot of the distributers rate it as being almost as good as gel batteries and great value for money. I have these on my radar as my next choice of battery as the performance ratings are exceptional and I do not need to make any changes to my solar set up, on-board charger and out put from alternator.
One of, if not the best battery charger on the market.
AgeingAndrew
Free Member
Yep, same goes for the NOCO Genius chargers which provide a maximum of 14.8V for their AGM charge profile.
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Yes a vrla battery will vent if overheating or overcharging. Wet acid vrla have a visible vent that gasses off regularly. Victron Lead carbons do not have this type of visible vent, and the gels do not gas like a wet acid battery does. As for safety, My brother is a fireman, his words, “ there’s enough firemen on the truck to piss on a conventional battery to put it out, whereas there’s not enough water in the whole fire engine to put out a lithium one.” Saying that, I will agree, any form of battery is dangerous if misused.
Lithium Batteries, hmmm, far too costly, and no good to us full timers, as we charge our batteries 365 days a year,in minus degrees, plus, the speed of charging, dod, and cycle life of Lead Carbon is far superior to wet acid batteries, take a read of this..... cycle life at 30% dod upto 7000 times, brilliant for those who aren’t fair weather battery chargers eh?
Lead Carbon Batteries
Introduction
Growing demand for batteries on a global scale
Due to the rapid development of the industry, the application of batteries in transportation, communication, power, military, aviation, marine, commercial facilities as well as in the daily needs of users has become more extensive.The performance of conventional lead based batteries is not optimal
Because of its inherent structural characteristics, traditional lead-acid batteries suffer from plate sulphation, active material loss, high water loss rate, serious acid pollution, poor low temperature performance, short life cycle, poor transport safety and other flaws. In order to overcome the structural weaknesses in lead-acid batteries, gel electrolyte has been used as replacement in gel batteries. Although it reduces acid mist, reduces water loss rate and self-discharge rate, and improves the discharge performance, it raises new problems such as poor penetration of the gel material, weak compatibility with the AGM separator and a slow reaction to the electrodes.By its unique technology Lead Carbon batteries have a high performance
To overcome the fundamental flaws of the lead-acid, AGM and gel batteries, we instead recommend the newer and superior Lead Carbon Batteries, which are ideal products to replace lead acid, AGM and gel batteries.In line with the industrial development trend of the 21st century, Lead Carbon batteries pioneered the new concept of environmentally friendlier Nano-Carbon / Activated Carbon (Graphene) negative plate design, and marked the iconic innovation of battery technology. The excellent properties of Lead Carbon batteries is well received in many provinces and cities in China, and has successfully entered markets in Southeast Asia, Africa, the Middle East, Europe, Australia and other international markets. They are widely used in solar energy, wind energy storage systems, telecommunications, power supply / power stations, railway passenger cars, electric vehicles, beacon signal indicators and other fields. This new type of environmentally friendly product is rapidly blending into the consumer lifestyles of many industries and is widely accepted by institutions and individuals.
The patented technology found in lead carbon batteries uses a special advanced technology negative carbon plate formula, developed to completely replace traditional regular sulphuric lead acid batteries. This in turn improves the product’s application and safety performance. The electrical properties of the battery are consistent and achieve high reliable performance + longer life. It effectively overcomes the disadvantages of plate sulphation, active material loss and water loss rate, has good low temperature and overcharge performance, and greatly improves product life.
Lead carbon batteries have longer a longer cycle-life. If you take the battery’s ‘end of life’ to be the point at which it can only be charged/discharged to 80% of its original capacity, a lead carbon battery will last for 7000 cycles at 30% DoD daily – compared to 2000 – 5500 cycles at 30% DoD for VRLA-types and 800 cycles at 30% DoD for flooded batteries.
Lead carbon batteries are better at sitting at partial states of charge (PSOC). Ordinary lead type batteries work best and last longer if they follow a strict ‘full charge’-‘full discharge’-full charge’ regime; they do not respond well to being charged at any state in between full and empty. Lead carbon batteries are happier to function in the more ambiguous charging regions.
Lead Carbon batteries use supercapacitor negative electrodes. Carbon batteries use a standard lead type battery positive electrode and a supercapacitor negative electrode. This supercapacitor electrode is the key to the longevity of the carbon batteries. A standard lead-type electrode undergoes a chemical reaction over time from charging and discharging. The supercapacitor negative electrode reduces corrosion on the positive electrode and also helps to inhibit sulphation for the negative electrode, which in turn leads to longer life of the electrodes itself which then leads to longer lasting batteries (up to a 20 year max design life, or around 10 years daily real world life for most typicaly average NZ solar clients).
Lead carbon batteries have faster charge/discharge rates. Standard lead-type batteries have between maximum 5-20% of their rated capacity charge/discharge rates meaning you can charge or discharge the batteries between 5 – 20 hours without causing any long term damage to the units. Lead Carbon have a theoretical unlimited discharge rate and a fast charge rate also.
Ultra High Charge vs Discharge Efficiency Level. Standard lead-type batteries usually have around a 50% charge vs discharge efficiency, so for every 1000w of solar / generator charge power you put into the battery (per hour) 50% of that is retained and 50% is wasted. Over a day, week and year this equates to ALOT of wasted energy with standard lead acid / agm / gel batteries. In turn a lead carbon battery operates typically between 90-92% charge vs discharge efficiency rating. This means for every 1000w of solar / generator charge power you put into the battery (per hour) then 90% of that is retained and only 10% is wasted. Over a day, week and year this means a HUGE amount of savings, especially if some of your charging power was coming from running a petrol / diesel generator (which are not cheap to run for long periods).
Lenny HB
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What would be the point of fitti g a Gel if you can't charge it past 80%.
Where did you get that missinformation from, Lifepo4 Lithium that are used in Motorhomes are safer than Lead Acid.
Although I'm in favour of Pure Lead carbon Batteries. There are some points in that post that don't quite add up. Can you post the source to support your statements please.
AgeingAndrew
Free Member
Where did you get the information that <B>"Lifepo4 Lithium that are used in Motorhomes are safer than Lead Acid."</B> You really should cite your sources if you are going to make this sort of statement.
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I have found out where the above statement from post #42 cones from. Its a NZ company and they are into solar applications.
www.hiteksolar.co.nz
They also state the following. (No mention of RV's or Motorhomes)(Make of it what you will)).
• Telecommunications, Communications Exchange and Transmission Systems
• UPS Uninterruptible Power Supply, PABX and Microwave Relay Station
• Radio and Broadcasting Stations
• Power Plants and Transmission Systems
• Emergency Lighting Systems
• Railway Signal, Beacon Signalling System
• Solar Energy, Wind Energy Storage Systems
• Hotels, Auditoriums and other Applications
• Fish Finder, Boat, Electric Motors
Common sizes available are: 12v 70Ah + 6v 250Ah and 6v 300Ah.
If you need any other sizes please enquire with us thanks.
Lead Carbon Batteries
lead carbon, nano carbon, battery, batteries, psoc, sulphation, design life, 20 year, 10 year, abuse tolerant, solar storage, deep cycle, latest technology, off grid, hybrid, ev charging, narada, partial state of charge, long life, generator, efficiency, most highest efficient, super capacitor...
www.hiteksolar.co.nz
They also state the following. (No mention of RV's or Motorhomes)(Make of it what you will)).
Applications
Lead Carbon batteries can be used in a wide range of applications where lead acid, Lead Gel batteries or AGM Batteries are used today, including, but not limited to:• Telecommunications, Communications Exchange and Transmission Systems
• UPS Uninterruptible Power Supply, PABX and Microwave Relay Station
• Radio and Broadcasting Stations
• Power Plants and Transmission Systems
• Emergency Lighting Systems
• Railway Signal, Beacon Signalling System
• Solar Energy, Wind Energy Storage Systems
• Hotels, Auditoriums and other Applications
• Fish Finder, Boat, Electric Motors
Common sizes available are: 12v 70Ah + 6v 250Ah and 6v 300Ah.
If you need any other sizes please enquire with us thanks.
You can, but the point is you don't have to. As the nights draw in and it gets more and more difficult to bring the batteries up to 100%, that is a worry for most batteries. Keeping them at 80% or below for weeks while in storage is a recipe for sulphation damage with most batteries, whether they are flooded, gel or AGM. Lead-carbon batteries are more resilient in these conditions.
The sources I've read are a bit vague and hand-waving about this, but they claim that the carbon in the lead electrode somehow keeps the lead sulfate in small 'particles', which are less susceptible to crystal growth which is what sulphation is.
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