Barriers on car parks in skeg

johnp10 · Mar 31, 2015

EssexBoy said:
Sounds like the local town council have two choices
1. Live with it
2. Grow a pair and spend some of their substantial tourist income to provide appropriate/effective policing

That's what they've done.
No different to speed bumps.

G'night.

EssexBoy · Mar 31, 2015

johnp10 said:
EssexBoy,
It's about black waste dumped in the dunes,
its about grey waste allowed to run across a car park into the drains / grass verges,
its about people who have stated they bring all they need with them to save money,
its about people setting up a full camp, awnings and all, in a public car park,
its about discouraging day trippers from visiting certain areas.
What part of that is hard to accept?.

100% accepted. No dispute from me...

johnp10 said:
The freeloaders cant take a hint so they, not the councils, have spoiled it for us all.

This is not "freeloading", this is purely unacceptable behaviour... Or are you saying that if these people pay an appropriate fee that covers your rate payers expenses then it's ok with you?
It is the linking of money payment and behaviour that is the objection here...
Stick to "this is bad behaviour" and you'll get a lot more support from me...

johnp10 · Mar 31, 2015

Not just a money issue, deprives others of a facility, leaves crap all over the place.
Bad behaviour it is.

EssexBoy · Mar 31, 2015

johnp10 said:
That's what they've done.
No different to speed bumps

Not the same... Do speed bumps deny law abiding people access to the road?
However, It's the same as denying all disabled people access to the car park because one disabled person abused the facility...
It's the same all over the country... Not enough enforcement resources...

johnp10 · Mar 31, 2015

In principle, EB, in principle.
You have a problem (speeding, whatever) you do something to prevent it.
They did just that.

I'm not going with this disabled thing, it's nit picking.
24 hr policing of every car park ion a region obviously isn't an option.
The council have tried overnight bans, which were ignored, signs torn down.
The end result has for a long time been a foregone conclusion.
The majority once again are victims of the minority.

I really am done with this, it's such old ground.
Cheers.

Tootles · Mar 31, 2015

GJH said:
Both cause problems and expense for residents and deter visitors.

And so, they employ some guys with cash bags and charge, most other places do.

johnp10 said:
Having a MH doesn't give us the right to do as we wish at other folks' expense.

No John, but you could be given the chance to pay for your stay, surely??

By just blanking off the entrances, the council is truly shirking its responsibility to the council tax payers by raising some revenue?

DavidG58 · Mar 31, 2015

sounds like they need an aire............................................

just an idea

Tootles · Mar 31, 2015

I wonder if it would be possible to rent one of these car parks off the council??? A good living to be made, thinks I, operating the only MH parking space in Skeg.....

DavidG58 · Mar 31, 2015

Tootles said:
I wonder if it would be possible to rent one of these car parks off the council??? A good living to be made, thinks I, operating the only MH parking space in Skeg.....

Good living???

£5 /night would scare most off, allow for insurance, water rates, rubbish collection, non payers, nothing left for a lot of effort, but you have my complete agreement

but certainly not enough margin to share

Sidney · Mar 31, 2015

Wildman said:
the answer is to give the police greater powers to move illegal travellers on to traveller sites (that all councils presumably have to provide) not penalise genuine motorhome users.

I think there's no harm in a local authority charging for overnight parking. If this was enforced they would actually recoup any costs.

But if you're FECKLESS you'd ban overnight parking so motorhomes have to use local campsites.

Sidney · Apr 1, 2015

wanderer said:
Spent a week at North Shore caravan site last August and cycled in to watch the bowls finals every day . We had the misfortune to witness a large group of campers taking over the carpark at the end of the prom all with newish motorhomes and many with Irish accents , there were children running amok , rubbish everywhere , loud music , toilet tanks emptied in the bushes and they hadn,t even paid the parking charge . We witnessed the ejection and clean up by the council and the erection of barriers and private security staff all paid by the council.
It must be very difficult for local residents to differentiate between responsible motorhomers and these freeloading SCUM

But local authorities don't differentiate. You're not welcome if you are in a motorhome.

DavidG58 · Apr 1, 2015

not sure what the height limit is, but it must stop quite few other 4x4's

as ever a minority have f@@cked it up for the rest of us

EssexBoy · Apr 1, 2015

DavidG58 said:
as ever a minority have f@@cked it up for the rest of us

That was the main thrust of my argument. It's absolutely nothing to do with "freeloading" or spending/not spending money, it's the appalling things these people are doing that really needs fixing...
Any council that gets tough with these idiots has my support, coz it means one small step closer to getting rid of height barriers full stop...

wanderer · Apr 1, 2015

Sidney said:
But local authorities don't differentiate. You're not welcome if you are in a motorhome.

And i cant blame them

GJH · Apr 1, 2015

Tootles said:
And so, they employ some guys with cash bags and charge, most other places do.

No John, but you could be given the chance to pay for your stay, surely?? By just blanking off the entrances, the council is truly shirking its responsibility to the council tax payers by raising some revenue?

Trouble is, Dave, they would need 24 hour staffing and the cost would be too high to be in the overall public interest.

Sidney said:
But local authorities don't differentiate. You're not welcome if you are in a motorhome.

Not so. As I've posted several times in the last couple of days, there is an alternative car/coach park where motorhomes can be parked in Skegness. There are also 5 other car parks within other towns of East Lindsay district.

DavidG58 said:
sounds like they need an aire............................................

just an idea

DavidG58 said:
Good living???

£5 /night would scare most off, allow for insurance, water rates, rubbish collection, non payers, nothing left for a lot of effort, but you have my complete agreement but certainly not enough margin to share

Unfortunately the one answers the other I'm afraid.

buttons · Apr 1, 2015

johnp10 said:
That's what they've done.
No different to speed bumps.

G'night.

I have read through your post John and I must say that I agree with every word. Skegness is just the latest to react in this way after years of unwarranted abuse by non revenue generating free loaders. It is a great shame as it is the genuine motorhomers who suffer the consequences of free loading but how else can free loaders be deterred from littering our coastlines between Lands End and Skegness.

I find it a real pain not being able to use sea front day car parks but I understand the logic behind it. Like I understand the logic behind my suspension being wrecked by speed bumps.
Without reckless campers and reckless drivers, motorhoming would be in a better place.

Tootles · Apr 1, 2015

GJH said:
Trouble is, Dave, they would need 24 hour staffing and the cost would be too high to be in the overall public interest.

Of coarse you wouldn't need 24 hour staffing Graham.

Do you get 24 hour staffing with either CC or C&CC? Barrier shuts at whatever time, man goes home. He comes back next morning and unlocks barrier. Many toilet blocks on the canal system work this way, with even the 'plastic police' doing the locking and unlocking.

GJH · Apr 1, 2015

Tootles said:
Of coarse you wouldn't need 24 hour staffing Graham. Do you get 24 hour staffing with either CC or C&CC? Barrier shuts at whatever time, man goes home. He comes back next morning and unlocks barrier. Many toilet blocks on the canal system work this way, with even the 'plastic police' doing the locking and unlocking.

Except that barriers can be smashed

EssexBoy · Apr 1, 2015

buttons said:
unwarranted abuse by non revenue generating free loaders.
consequences of free loading
free loaders be deterred

The same question as before... How much would you want a "freeloader" to pay so they can do what they do and thus be acceptable to you? £20, £30 what?

My view is that bad behaviour is bad behaviour... And endemic in society... And poor enforcement resources allow it to continue...

Law and order should not have a price put on it... It's a fundamental principle...

buttons · Apr 1, 2015

EssexBoy said:
The same question as before... How much would you want a "freeloader" to pay so they can do what they do and thus be acceptable to you? £20, £30 what?

My view is that bad behaviour is bad behaviour... And endemic in society... And poor enforcement resources allow it to continue...

Law and order should not have a price put on it... It's a fundamental principle...

I wont attempt to answer your question EB because I'm not sure what it is you want me to say. But what I will do is give you a scenario that happened a few years ago in your neck of the woods.
Aldeburgh Suffolk like Skegness was a favorite among free loaders. The area around Aldeburgh is blessed with ample good official camp sites and the town had ample day parking for all vehicles.

Now this should have be enough for every kind of visitor to the town but alas it wasn't. The sea wall which has around a mile of shingled road with beach side access was a mecca for free loaders, many would stay for weeks at a time. Like Skegness, emptying their waste and stealing water while spending little in the town. Locals and other visitors got fed up with not being able to use the sea wall and paying for the regular clean ups while the free loaders set out their wind breaks and tables taking over the beach.

So the council in its wisdom introduced a total ban for all campers of any kind along the sea wall, which has spoilt it for decent reasonable motohomers using and paying for local sites who could park for an hour or two during the day like other vehicles and enjoy the beach. There are no height restrictions just a notice restricting sea wall access. Ignore the sign and a friendly local bobby will be along day or night with a fine.

I could give many more examples if you would like.

GJH · Apr 1, 2015

buttons said:
Like Skegness, emptying their waste and stealing water while spending little in the town. Locals and other visitors got fed up with not being able to use the sea wall and paying for the regular clean ups while the free loaders set out their wind breaks and tables taking over the beach.

The problem at Aldeburgh wasn't just confined to those activities. More seriously, the increase in the number of larger vehicles in 2006/7 started to cause erosion/damage to the sea wall (which is a coastal defence).
See This Thread from 2010 (obviously the call for comments has now ended).

Alan · Apr 1, 2015

I suppose it's still possible that they'll leave the barriers open in the day time and close them at a designated time. The next car park up the coast (Jacksons Corner )2 miles north is often open in the daytime and the local bar locks them at nighttime as they have deliveries during the day.
The problem they had last year was the gypsies turned up on a Friday evening after the council offices were shut, filled the car park with caravans and it took several days to have them moved off, they just moved then to other car parks in local villages causing pubs and restaurants to close, affecting there takings in what should be there busiest time of the year.
The Skegness car parks have never been against motorhomes as they had designated an area in one of the seafront car parks for motorhomes ,it's the gypsies that arrive in large groups, take over the car park and don't pay the charges.
Alan

EssexBoy · Apr 1, 2015

buttons said:
I wont attempt to answer your question EB because I'm not sure what it is you want me to say. But what I will do is give you a scenario that happened a few years ago in your neck of the woods.
Aldeburgh Suffolk like Skegness was a favorite among free loaders. The area around Aldeburgh is blessed with ample good official camp sites and the town had ample day parking for all vehicles.

Now this should have be enough for every kind of visitor to the town but alas it wasn't. The sea wall which has around a mile of shingled road with beach side access was a mecca for free loaders, many would stay for weeks at a time. Like Skegness, emptying their waste and stealing water while spending little in the town. Locals and other visitors got fed up with not being able to use the sea wall and paying for the regular clean ups while the free loaders set out their wind breaks and tables taking over the beach.

So the council in its wisdom introduced a total ban for all campers of any kind along the sea wall, which has spoilt it for decent reasonable motohomers using and paying for local sites who could park for an hour or two during the day like other vehicles and enjoy the beach. There are no height restrictions just a notice restricting sea wall access. Ignore the sign and a friendly local bobby will be along day or night with a fine.

I could give many more examples if you woulds like.

Hi buttons...
I was in aldeburgh a few weeks ago, great place...

My point was more about the repeated use of the term "freeloader" as it has nothing to do with payment or not... It's just bad behaviour...

Like the majority I suspect, I would love to park by the sea wall, use the beach & maybe even stay overnight - so would that make me a freeloader?

The difference between them and me is that you wouldn't know I had been there and I'd be gone the next day...

I was brought up to live by right & wrong and there are consequences for wrong, however, these days the consequences are unlikely to be seen because " it costs too much"... Utter rubbish, and is why this country is going to the dogs...

to add insult to injury, in your example you say "Ignore the sign and a friendly local bobby will be along day or night with a fine", so why can't the sign say "max 24hrs/no awnings/no waste and the Bobby enforce that with fines?

Too easy I suppose...

GJH · Apr 1, 2015

EssexBoy said:
why can't the sign say "max 24hrs/no awnings/no waste and the Bobby enforce that with fines?

Too easy I suppose...

It's nothing to do with being easy. As I mentioned in my previous post it's because the increase in the number of larger vehicles in 2006/7 started to cause erosion/damage to the sea wall (which is a coastal defence).

EssexBoy · Apr 1, 2015

GJH said:
It's nothing to do with being easy. As I mentioned in my previous post it's because the increase in the number of larger vehicles in 2006/7 started to cause erosion/damage to the sea wall (which is a coastal defence).

Sorry Graham... missed this whilst posting...

newlifedriver · Apr 2, 2015

Can we stop with the gypsies most or travelers I no some very old fashioned gypsies but there are not that many of them and I have found over the years the ones going on about freeloaders are normally the ferst in line for a freebie themselves

busby · Apr 2, 2015

alan said:
Barriers have gone up on all main car parks in Skeg,I'm not sure how it will be implemented as the car park in the photo has the motor home parking behind it
Alan View attachment 58052 View attachment 58054

They ought to put a six foot fence round Skegness,,,,BUSBY

scotjimland · Apr 2, 2015

GJH said:
It's nothing to do with being easy. As I mentioned in my previous post it's because the increase in the number of larger vehicles in 2006/7 started to cause erosion/damage to the sea wall (which is a coastal defence).

that was the reason given Graham.. .. in reality the wall was in no danger from campervans of whatever size.. .. no more than it is from boy racers who use it as a race track .. it wasn't about dumping cassettes, it wasn't about blocking the beach.. etc .. these are all smokescreens.. excuses.

If it were in danger of damage from vehicles then they should have banned all vehicles..

If the truth be known it was probably because the local camp site owner complained .. and who probably has a seat on the council..

What the council could have done was set aside a section as a pay to use aire.. it's a huge wall.. plenty of room at the far end next to the Martello tower.

but that would have upset the campsite owner.. so it was never considered.

GJH · Apr 2, 2015

ScotJimland said:
that was the reason given Graham.. .. in reality the wall was in no danger from campervans of whatever size.. .. no more than it is from boy racers who use it as a race track .. it wasn't about dumping cassettes, it wasn't about blocking the beach.. etc .. these are all smokescreens.. excuses.

If it were in danger of damage from vehicles then they should have banned all vehicles..

If the truth be known it was probably because the local camp site owner complained .. and who probably has a seat on the council..

What the council could have done was set aside a section as a pay to use aire.. it's a huge wall.. plenty of room at the far end next to the Martello tower.

but that would have upset the campsite owner.. so it was never considered.

The officer in charge at the time was proactively helpful in provision of daytime parking for motorhomes Jim. That is why the alternative arrangements were made rather than a complete ban being imposed straight away.

The restrictions applied to all heavy vehicles, not just motorhomes, and I have no reason to doubt what she told me.

Sidney · Apr 2, 2015

I find myself pulling hair out when motorhome owners say, "you can't blame local authorities".

English councils should use the laws that exist to protect people and places. Don't erect a barrier because it's easier than enforcing the laws of the land. That's knee jerk reaction by local authorities putting their fingers in their ears. It's just lazy and feckless and that's why you can blame local authorities.

If English local authorities are right in their actions motorhomers won't have anywhere to go other than a campsite in accordance with the Public Health Act of 1936 and the Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act 1960. If this is best for England in the 21st Century why did Scotland bring in Outdoor Access Code?

Barriers on car parks in skeg

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