Ban in Lincoln.

[TheCaller]

This will be much missed. I've used it several times when attending events at the top end of Lincoln. The Hartsholme campsite is a long way away - the taxi ride back late evening (no bus option) would cost as much as the campsite fee - always assuming the campsite was a) open & b) not fully booked already.

I very much doubt that many of those using The Lawns car park will now use a campsite as an alternative.

 

[steve69]

Hmmm....read carefully.

Just a few observations on this post and the broader subject of parking and sleeping overnight which readers can 'take or leave'.

I stopped at a well-known 'beauty spot' in Wales last week. There were signs stating '"No sleeping in vehicles overnight".

Tellingly, there were no signs regarding penalties for failing to comply.

I ignored the sign and stayed (and slept) in my motorhome overnight.

As I was packing up to leave the next morning at about 0800, a warden appeared and asked me if I had parked overnight and slept in my vehicle.

I answered truthfully.

"Didn't you see the signs"? he asked.

"I did Sir, but they are not enforceable are they"? I replied.

He admitted that they were not. I chatted amicably with him for a few minutes and impressed on him that I had not left any litter. I then went on my way.

In many cases, it depends on how much of a push-over you choose to be.

If you park on private land and it's just you and your vehicle then a court order is required to evict you. The Police have no power to move you on or arrest you unless you have committed damage, threatened or assaulted someone or forced entry.

If you are parked on a road or public place, as long as your vehicle is taxed, insured and MOT'd then the Police have no power whatsoever to 'move you on' unless you are clearly causing an obstruction. You commit no offence by sleeping in your vehicle. If you remain in situ for days on end (and they receive complaints from local residents) then the Police will inform the local council and send a 'bod' out to ask that you move and to inform you that if you don't then a court order will be sought to 'reclaim the highway from misuse'.
(How do I know this? It was one aspect of my job with a local authority for many years)

The expression 'the Police will move you on' is a nonsense legally. There is no such power. Police have an option to arrest (which they have to justify and show reasonable suspicion that you have committed a criminal offence...and sleeping in your vehicle is definitely NOT a criminal offence)... or do nothing. You will find that if you behave respectfully, make it clear that you know the law and indicate that you will be leaving the next day (or in a couple of days) leaving no mess or litter, they will choose the latter option. The court order option will take several days and cost money so easier that you are allowed to leave in your own time.

The Police will often try to invoke the 'Barbed Wire Act'...this is a euphemism for them directing you to do or not do something when they have no power to give such direction. They simply bank on you caving in and complying.
(How do I know this? I was a Police Officer for over 30 years)

I'm not advising anyone to have an altercation with the Police or anyone else. I'm simply stating what the law is.

How 'campers' decide to react to any challenge by the Police or others is matter for them.

Always smile, never be rude.....

Happy travels......

If what you say is true, then overnighting at any seaside coast road anywhere is not an offence and you can't be moved on.
Do the South coast traffic wardens know about this?

 

[Jim]

overnighting at any seaside coast road anywhere is not an offence

It's not an offence, unless, you are deemed to be causing an obstruction, or by-laws have been passed that prohibit same.

 

[NR]

BBC News - Motorhome sleeping ban for council car parks

Motorhome sleeping ban for council car parks in Lincoln

Campervan and motorhome owners will not be allowed to sleep in their vehicles in Lincoln car parks.

www.bbc.com

Tragic, I live six miles away and used frequently for nights out, I suppose it was inevitable as Lincoln council specialise in killing off revenue generators, Christmas market springs to mind!!!

 

[Nigel P]

Fire Decisions Ltd: Safety Risk Assessments Sussex Kent Surrey London

Specialist fire safety advice to employers and building owners to assist them in carrying out fire safety risk assessments, management and strategies

firedecisions.co.uk

Bit of background to some of those separation policies

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Bertilak]

Fire Decisions Ltd: Safety Risk Assessments Sussex Kent Surrey London

Specialist fire safety advice to employers and building owners to assist them in carrying out fire safety risk assessments, management and strategies

firedecisions.co.uk

Bit of background to some of those separation policies

Thanks for posting this.
I always felt 6m probably started in the days of primus stoves, tents waterproofed with paraffin wax, and long guylines.
Even caravans used gas mantle lighting, and probably free-hanging flammable curtains etc.
It will then have have been adopted by the clubs as as a privacy rule to suit nimby club types.

But go to any site where the purpose is other than merely "camping" (eg music festivals, race meets etc) and you're lucky to get 2m, that alone 6.

IMO the technology and equipment has moved on so far that the risks are much reduced, but so has the public tolerance of risk...
but the 6m rule still remains as an aid for nimbys and haters.

 

[steve69]

Thanks for posting this.
I always felt 6m probably started in the days of primus stoves, tents waterproofed with paraffin wax, and long guylines.
Even caravans used gas mantle lighting, and probably free-hanging flammable curtains etc.
It will then have have been adopted by the clubs as as a privacy rule to suit nimby club types.

But go to any site where the purpose is other than merely "camping" (eg music festivals, race meets etc) and you're lucky to get 2m, that alone 6.

IMO the technology and equipment has moved on so far that the risks are much reduced, but so has the public tolerance of risk...
but the 6m rule still remains as an aid for nimbys and haters.

I have to laugh, though it wasn't actually that funny.
I tried to get onto and aire in San Sebastien for a night recently.
I kid you not the place was full to the extent that the gap between each van was barely enough to open the cab doors.

The gap between units in the UK? Not even a consideration abroad it seems.

 

[steve69]

or by-laws have been passed that prohibit same.

Something Dogstoat may have overlooked.

 

[jongood]

Great, you can use a campsite which closes today until March.

 

[nicholsong]

Fire Decisions do not explain why the regulations apply to campsites but not other places where MHs park, e.g.CPs, Dealers' forecourts, etc.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[hja]

I think the fire risk assessment from CAMPRA is 3 m? Certainly not 6m

 

[cyberyacht]

I have to laugh, though it wasn't actually that funny.
I tried to get onto and aire in San Sebastien for a night recently.
I kid you not the place was full to the extent that the gap between each van was barely enough to open the cab doors.

The gap between units in the UK? Not even a consideration abroad it seems.

Even less than that last year, squeezed onto the end of a row.

 

[U.Toadifact]

I exhibit at many steam rallies each year and many certainly do not adhere to 6m spacing. A couple of years ago at one rally I could barely squeeze between my own van and the van next door. I was not a happy bunny and will not go again.

 

[U.Toadifact]

Have you actually been 'moved on' as you put it in such circumstances i.e. stopping overnight in a lay-by in a motorhome or are you assuming this is what would happen? The Police have absolutely no power whatsoever to do such a thing as long as your vehicle is road legal.

No I confess I have never been moved on. However I have in the past been the subject of police bulldoings when attempting to persuade me my knowledge of a certain piece of legislation was wrong and they knew better. Ultimately I was proved right.

 

[rod_vw]

We live 5 minutes from Hartsholme. The site is great value, wish we lived further away so we would visit with our motorhome but walk everyday in park with our dogs. For £20ish you have showers, washing clothes/dishes etc. water and somewhere to dump your . In addition, a large park to exercise your dogs. Bus stop outside for Lincoln. We consider their charge VERY reasonable. If you can afford a motorhome, none are cheap these days, you can afford to park on designated site. However, after a certain time, a bollard pops up, restricting entry into park but, if you are on campsite, you have a code. There are plenty of spaces to “wildcamp” as you enter park and I don’t suppose anybody will bother you.

Sorry but I don't agree. We pay high prices for a vehicle with our own facilities and have no wish to have to pay to duplicate them.
All we ask is access to waste disposal, fresh water and a reasonable place to park. £20 if far too much to pay for those facilities. That's why we go to France in particular and Europe in general.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[U.Toadifact]

Hi.
1. Drivers hours . Modern cabs are like mini M/ho's now. 2. Have you seen lorries parked later on of an evening parked in/on the entrance exits to Service stations both here and on the continent because the parking area is full.........
Tea Bag. aka Lay bye Lil'

By no means is drivers' hours a major factor. Not far from Toadifact Towers is a major port. Many HGVs arrive late pm or early evening and park up for the night in local laybyes to be early for the ferry next morning. I'm not saying they are not welcome, just that we motorhomes are regarded as pariahs for doing the same thing.

 

[Tea Bag]

By no means is drivers' hours a major factor. Not far from Toadifact Towers is a major port. Many HGVs arrive late pm or early evening and park up for the night in local laybyes to be early for the ferry next morning. I'm not saying they are not welcome, just that we motorhomes are regarded as pariahs for doing the same thing.

Hi U.Toadifact.
This is NOT a stab at you....Not having used them,but the new Tacho's would appear to be a Credit card set up ( Some young Buck will come along and enlighten us ) and it would appear it takes NO prisoners if the hours are exceeded.Owner and driver fined.
The owners of the lorries like every moment of driving time used up,not helped by " Timed deliveries "
In the old Log book/early Tacho days there was a work around...... But often you could be coming onto/off a M'way during the day time and find all the nearby Lay byes full of empty cars,left by people who were " car sharing " to the same workplace.
Perhaps a " Little ?" lee way on the tacho ? .................. I WON'T be holding my breath........
Tea Bag ( an OLD Sinner )
PS. Just a note Fleet owner has 30 lorries. At least15 of them will be looking to park up for the night. I don't know how much it is to park up on the M/way services now,but whatever it is,added up all together and multiplied by 6. Isn't cheap. There was known to be,hauliers who would deduct the meal voucher price from the parking ticket s it was not their job to pay for your meals

 

[U.Toadifact]

Hi U.Toadifact.
This is NOT a stab at you....Not having used them,but the new Tacho's would appear to be a Credit card set up ( Some young Buck will come along and enlighten us ) and it would appear it takes NO prisoners if the hours are exceeded.Owner and driver fined.
The owners of the lorries like every moment of driving time used up,not helped by " Timed deliveries "
In the old Log book/early Tacho days there was a work around...... But often you could be coming onto/off a M'way during the day time and find all the nearby Lay byes full of empty cars,left by people who were " car sharing " to the same workplace.
Perhaps a " Little ?" lee way on the tacho ? .................. I WON'T be holding my breath........
Tea Bag ( an OLD Sinner )
PS. Just a note Fleet owner has 30 lorries. At least15 of them will be looking to park up for the night. I don't know how much it is to park up on the M/way services now,but whatever it is,added up all together and multiplied by 6. Isn't cheap. There was known to be,hauliers who would deduct the meal voucher price from the parking ticket s it was not their job to pay for your meals

No stab perceived.