Auto-Trail Switching from Underslung LPG to Bottles

[ianthelawyer]

I have a new Expedition 67 on order from Auto-Trail. However, dealership has just been notified that due to a shortage of underslung LPG tanks they are fitting a gas locker for two 4.5kg bottles (butane) instead. Dealer says that space in locker would not be enough for a Gaslow system (34cm). Any suggestions anyone as intend to travel to Europe and therefore Calor not going to work and will be expensive?

 

[Two on Tour]

Get Auto-Trail to speak with Gas-it as they appear to have stock of underslung tanks.

 

[Ivory55]

Or I guess that as the under slung tank is not available now that they will be refunding you the difference , and you could get one fitted elsewhere.

 

[ianthelawyer]

Funnily enough Ivory55 no mention of refund, just a more expensive and inconvenient system.

 

[Jimbohorlicks]

2 X 4.5 doesn't seem to be enough capacity.you will be filling up too often.

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[Blue Knight]

LPG is a huge factor for us to help sustain our off-grid camping style so in our case we wouldn't be able to cope with your new proposed set-up.

You're spending a huge amount of money on your van so don't compromise on something you'll undoubtedly need in the future.

Good luck,

Andrew

 

[Two on Tour]

Butane may be a problem for you in colder weather.

 

[peterc10]

I have a new Expedition 67 on order from Auto-Trail. However, dealership has just been notified that due to a shortage of underslung LPG tanks they are fitting a gas locker for two 4.5kg bottles (butane) instead. Dealer says that space in locker would not be enough for a Gaslow system (34cm). Any suggestions anyone as intend to travel to Europe and therefore Calor not going to work and will be expensive?

If you want to roam around Europe you really need refillables, as there are no Europe wide refillable schemes except camping gaz butane. And those will be very expensive and butane is unsuitable for winter use and even autumn and spring in the UK.

As you are a lawyer I assume that you will be able to educate your dealer on consumer law. As others have suggested get a reduction of price and tell them you do not want a gas locker that is useless. Then use the reduction in price to get an external tank system fitted by others.

 

[Ivory55]

Funnily enough Ivory55 no mention of refund, just a more expensive and inconvenient system.

Good luck then with this one.

 

[Kannon Fodda]

It sounds like the gas locker size won't be fit for purpose. Really does need to be able to accommodate proper sized bottles rather than piddly little things.

But, if there is to be a gas locker, is there actually space in the PVC for that without taking up too much storage. After all with the Expedition they were supposed to be an underslung gas tank, and even the chassis mounted whale heater "creating valuable storage and living space" according to the Autotrail blurb. A gas locker defeats the benefits.

On the other side, LPG Autogas refills may still be common in parts of Europe. We have many threads on MHF moaning of the increased difficulty finding garages and working pumps in parts of the UK. Although with the rise of outdoor pursuits, obtaining bottled gas has also been a challenge from some suppliers, and it is vastly more costly, bottled gas may also be the future for the UK camper.

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[LiamD]

I'm in the same position.
Any idea how much it will cost to retro-fit an under-slung gas tank so I have an idea how much of a price reduction I need to aim for?
Thanks

 

[CazPaul]

I would ask for a straight £1000 off that will cover the cost, travel, time and inconvenience of getting one fitted afterwards.

 

[Ivory55]

I'm in the same position.
Any idea how much it will cost to retro-fit an under-slung gas tank so I have an idea how much of a price reduction I need to aim for?
Thanks

Try autogas 2000 they do all that type of thing and different size tanks for different motors etc

 

[Googlebot]

The little Calor bottles are about £20 a refill.

In winter we used one in a day, it gets eye watering expensive.

I would ask for a discount, enough to be able to fit your own gas tank.

 

[LiamD]

Hi,

The dealership have just responded to my Email enquiring about a cost reduction with the following

"I understand your disappointment.
Auto-Trail are not offering any price reduction but our MD will fit all Expedition models with 2 full gas bottles FOC"

Frankly, this will not suffice. Any insights into what my rights are under consumer law in this situation?

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[CazPaul]

Hi,

The dealership have just responded to my Email enquiring about a cost reduction with the following

"I understand your disappointment.
Auto-Trail are not offering any price reduction but our MD will fit all Expedition models with 2 full gas bottles FOC"

Frankly, this will not suffice. Any insights into what my rights are under consumer law in this situation?

I would obtain a price from autogas 2000 for an underslung tank(Although they would need to look at the van to see what size would fit) then get back to the dealer saying you will be that much out of pocket because you will need to fit one aftermarket.

 

[Blue Knight]

Frankly, this will not suffice. Any insights into what my rights are under consumer law in this situation?

1. Items not as described.

2. Not fit for the purpose they were intended.

= Reject IMO with a full refund.

I would also report them to Trading standards.

 

[Two on Tour]

Hi,

The dealership have just responded to my Email enquiring about a cost reduction with the following

"I understand your disappointment.
Auto-Trail are not offering any price reduction but our MD will fit all Expedition models with 2 full gas bottles FOC"

Frankly, this will not suffice. Any insights into what my rights are under consumer law in this situation?

When you signed your agreement to purchase, was it to have included the underslung tank, if you did, then they are in breach of contract.

 

[LesW]

I think I'd be asking for any money so far spent to be refunded, and go elsewhere.

 

[tonyidle]

I would suggest there is another reason. I don't believe they cannot find a tank.

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[Ivory55]

I would obtain a price from autogas 2000 for an underslung tank(Although they would need to look at the van to see what size would fit) then get back to the dealer saying you will be that much out of pocket because you will need to fit one aftermarket.

I think that is reasonable, I know you would have to travel there to get it done but I don’t think that they would stump that up.

 

[LiamD]

I would obtain a price from autogas 2000 for an underslung tank(Although they would need to look at the van to see what size would fit) then get back to the dealer saying you will be that much out of pocket because you will need to fit one aftermarket.

Thanks for your help but I don't have the van yet. Delivery is planned for the end of June.

Under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, I have the right to a full refund, on the grounds that the product is not as described.
However, I would like to give the dealership a chance to do the right thing. Frankly, I find their offer of a couple of free gas bottles a little insulting. Maybe I'm a bit touchy

 

[ceejayt]

Pretty much unacceptable. Completely different to what you have ordered, very inconvenient and if butane then useless in the winter.

Tell them you will have too cancel the order if they cannot supply what you have ordered as this is a fundamental change

 

[Jimbohorlicks]

2x 4.5kg bottles in place of an underslung tank is going to be more costly to you in the long run,more inconvenient,as you will have to change the bottles more often ,assuming you can find 4.5 kg bottles as I wouldn't think they are very popular.
I would check with autogas or similar if they can fit an underslung tank and or a price and have the dealer use them .if not ask for your money back

 

[CazPaul]

2x 4.5kg bottles in place of an underslung tank is going to be more costly to you in the long run,more inconvenient,as you will have to change the bottles more often ,assuming you can find 4.5 kg bottles as I wouldn't think they are very popular.
I would check with autogas or similar if they can fit an underslung tank and or a price and have the dealer use them .if not ask for your money back

That the problem though autogas 2000 will say we don’t know what size if any will fit until you fetch it.

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[Jimbohorlicks]

That the problem though autogas 2000 will say we don’t know what size if any will fit until you fetch it.

There must be similar vans they can use as examples,they must fit lots to pvc type vans.the cost if there are variations would be the tank size ,other parts would be the same,just different lengths of pipe etc.
To supply 2x 4.5 bottles is a low cost it's the cost of the locker that puts the price up to that nearer an underslung system.
It's not really ticket science to obtain a ballpark price.
Untill asked autogas can't advise a quote.

 

[Lenny HB]

4.5kg that means only 3.9kg of propane that would make the van not fit for purpose. Both bottles would only last a few days in winter.

 

[CazPaul]

Like I said a straight £1000 would cover everything or I would be cancelling altogether.

 

[Kannon Fodda]

Issue here is not necessarily the cost, but the practicality of what is a material change in the spec of the ordered van.

It's clear that the manufacturer, for whatever reason, isn't going to fit the underslung tank, and instead provides the gas locker. Even if an underslung cylinder is retrofitted, once they become available, the van is going to have this locker space instead of standard storage. Would that locker compromise the van in some way compared to the use you would have been able to have. Perhaps it might be advantageous, even if not used for gas, if it's accessible from outside, rather than a PVC's standard inside storage, for some of those small potentially wet things you carry around like hoses, leads, buckets and even a BBQ?

If the gas locker is in any way unacceptable you are stuck with awkward choices:

Can the build be delayed in the hope that an underslung tank will become available? Is a delayed build acceptable - may depend on timescales?

You are entitled to stop the deal as it wont be fit for purpose, not as ordered. All monies including deposit should be refundable. Need to act swiftly there may be a cut off time to back out of the deal now you are notified of the change. This may have some difficulty if the build is well progressed and some items on the van are specifically customised for you, and that is one for the lawyers if cancellation is rejected.
But cancelling means you get no van at all. Finding something else, even if another dealer, especially for new build puts you at the back of the queue, for any manufacturer, and with a shortage of base vehicles, you might be looking at delivery next year rather than this?

You can try and compel a part refund or credit. But that doesn't overcome that they will still be fitting the undesirable locker. Is there any way the van could be built with the internal pipework and fittings for the underslung but no gas locker, so you, later, can get the underslung fitted aftermarket. That may not work as if they can't sell the van completed, all sorts of handover completion checks won't be in place.

 

[Basildog]

I would obtain a price from autogas 2000 for an underslung tank(Although they would need to look at the van to see what size would fit) then get back to the dealer saying you will be that much out of pocket because you will need to fit one aftermarket.

I actually own Autogas 2000 , there is a massive shortage of most products at the moment and no amount of jumping up and down at dealers or manufacturers is going to change the shortage of raw materials needed for production of cylinders etc .
We are just about managing to keep stocks up but massive price increases on everything is making things pretty difficult for everyone .