Auto Stop/Start and 9 speed auto - how to avoid having to keep your foot dead still on the brake? (1 Viewer)

[rwg]

I love the 9 speed auto box - it's great to drive, but I still haven't worked out a good way to cope with the auto stop/start system when it decides to stop at a junction.

The car is stop/start too, but a manual, and that works fine... When you stop you put it in neutral and the engine stops. When you start to press the clutch to change back to 1st, the engine starts. Sorted...

The van though stops then engine (if it feels like it) when you come to a halt. The trouble is that from that moment on, any partial lift of the brake pedal seems to be interpreted as 'oh, you're about to move off - better start the engine'. So you have to sit there holding the brake pedal down at the same point as it was when you stopped - you can push harder, but never slacken the pressure. It's annoying.

This hasn't been an issue much recently, since the van hadn't been doing much stop/start, but having just had a first service it's decided it's keen on stopping again, so I'm trying to work out the best way to deal with it.

You can't put it in park, since that goes through reverse, which restarts the engine.

I tried putting it in neutral when stopped, but ended up movng the selector a bit far and got reverse briefly, so that started the engine again.

I will have to try the neutral approach again the next time I'm out, and also try the handbrake to see if that lets you release the pressure on the footbrake without restarting.

Does anyone have this sorted? Or is everyone just turing off stop/start because it's too annoying?

cheers,

Robin

 

[pappajohn]

A Fiat dealer can turn off the stop/start via computer.
Part of my start up routine in the car... Foot on brake, stop/start off, auto park brake off, auto brake hold on, drive away.
But I have a switch to disable stop/start.

 

[Derbyshire wanderer]

I have a VW 8 speed with stop start and a Transit Custom auto also with it, first thing I do after starting either of them is press the disable switch. Utterly stupid and potentially dangerous ‘feature’ that will either leave you in the path of oncoming traffic when it brain farts or cost you a starter motor well before it should need one.

 

[The Wino]

A Fiat dealer can turn off the stop/start via computer.
Part of my start up routine in the car... Foot on brake, stop/start off, auto park brake off, auto brake hold on, drive away.
But I have a switch to disable stop/start.

I think the ops problem is they like the stop start function but it starts too soon if they take their foot off the brake pedal rather than they want to disable it. I was a bit sceptical about it on our car in terms of battery life and reliability but after 93,000 miles it still works perfectly and is still on the original battery!

 

[Andy MacD]

Initially I had the same issue but found when the stop start has activated you can quickly and smoothly move the selector into park and the engine stays off. You can then remove your foot from the brake. When you take out of park the engine starts. It takes practice as if you do it too fast or slow it doesn’t work. Either that or stop at lights and put into park and then the stop start kicks in.

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[rwg]

Hi,

yes, exactly, I have no problem with the concept of stop/start at all, just that the way Fiat have rigged it to come back to life the moment you decrease the pressure on the brake pedal is a pain...

Andy MacD - I will try that approach next time I'm out in the van - thanks for the suggestion.

cheers,

Robin

 

[HarryML7]

I switch Stop/Start off in some driving conditions especially where the junction is on a slope.

 

[VXman]

I have a VW 8 speed with stop start and a Transit Custom auto also with it, first thing I do after starting either of them is press the disable switch. Utterly stupid and potentially dangerous ‘feature’ that will either leave you in the path of oncoming traffic when it brain farts or cost you a starter motor well before it should need one.

I am sure vehicles with start stop systems have a beefed up starter motors to cope with the life they will lead. My friend has a start stop Mini which is still working fine after 15 years

 

[HarryML7]

I am sure vehicles with start stop systems have a beefed up starter motors to cope with the life they will lead. My friend has a start stop Mini which is still working fine after 15 years

I dont know about the starter but stop/start batteries are much more expensive that "normal" starter batteries.

 

[herald_400rl]

In our car (auto with stop start) if you push the brake in, and then push it a bit more (quite firmly) then "Hold" appears in a box on the dash and it'll sit there until you press the accelerator. Worth a go? Not sure if it's a manufacturer thing but it's a good idea.

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[rwg]

In our car (auto with stop start) if you push the brake in, and then push it a bit more (quite firmly) then "Hold" appears in a box on the dash and it'll sit there until you press the accelerator. Worth a go? Not sure if it's a manufacturer thing but it's a good idea.

Thanks, it's certainly something worth trying

cheers,
Robin

 

[hja]

What I want to know (in a vaguely curious sort of way) is why it sometimes stop/starts and at other times it doesnt. It seems the OP also finds this situation. I quite like the s/s but it just doesnt always do it.

 

[rwg]

Unfortunately the Ducato doesn't tell you why it will or will not do stop/start

My VW tells me (although the messages are badly translated from German into English, so I will paraphrase some of them)

• Battery too low
• Engine not running long enough yet
• Cabin temperature too cold/hot

Additionally, for diesel vehicles, I think it will not do stop/start if a DPF regeneration is happening and possibly if the last DPF regeneration was interrupted. Finally, I think if the system is unsure about the charge state of the battery then it will not stop/start.

cheers,

Robin

 

[herald_400rl]

Yeah loads of factors, battery charge rate, coolant temp, oil temp, cabin temperature, current load (heated seats, blowers, demister, lights, radio turned up with a premium audio system) you would be unlikely to see statt/stop activate.

 

[gus-lopez]

Am I the only one left who applies the handbrake when they stop? That prevents restart. why would you ever move an automatic out of drive except when parking?
the current rented audi q2 has to have the clutch depressed to start the engine & the brake pressed to release the handbrake.
The stop/start should not work if the air con is on.
its invention was due to the fact that many councils/regions/countries are implementing "turn off engine " to curtail emissions when stopped at crossing/lights kerb ,etc. many councils have bylaws in place that can be enforced by parking attendants etc

just turing off stop/start because it's too annoying?

I do . but as above & in many council areas if you do not have stop/start you are meant to physically turn off your engine whislt waiting then restart. more nonsense as most vehicles these days have a fail safe system which means you have to wait for all the lights to go out before restarting.In many cases here the lights change before you can restart.
In many newer cars this is also why there is no way to disable the stop/start except at the dealers.

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[Guigsy]

It's technology that's been a standard in many cars for 15 years. And if you look at hybrids like the Prius, they stop-start continuously without issue. It's well proven. Just ignore it and let it do it's thing.

 

[Pausim]

On our Audi I really like that I can restart the engine without pulling away or releasing the brakes, simply by easing off the brake pressure a little. I wouldn’t like stop start without this feature. I can be ready for a quick pull away at a roundabout or a junction as I see an opportunity approaching. I can be ready when the lights turn green. Yes occasionally my foot moves and the engine starts a bit sooner than it needs to but that is really not a problem. A problem is missing the opportunity to pull away and inconveniencing myself and other motorists. I would turn stop start off if were not for the brake sensitive re-start feature.

My advice to the OP is make use of the feature, it puts you in control. Don’t worry if the engine sometimes restarts early, no harm done.

 

[pappajohn]

What I want to know (in a vaguely curious sort of way) is why it sometimes stop/starts and at other times it doesnt. It seems the OP also finds this situation. I quite like the s/s but it just doesnt always do it.

There are usually a few variables involved.
Won't work if not up to temperature or air-con switched on or battery voltage too low etc

 

[Pausim]

There are usually a few variables involved.
Won't work if not up to temperature or air-con switched on or battery voltage too low etc

Ours does stop start with the air con on but does seem to monitor voltage and heavy loads like heated rear window and headlights.

 

[Derbyshire wanderer]

I am sure vehicles with start stop systems have a beefed up starter motors to cope with the life they will lead. My friend has a start stop Mini which is still working fine after 15 years

They possibly do but it’s all extra wear and tear on the ring gear too and I have replaced quite a few VW ones so not a fan and added to the unpredictability of operation I find it a gimmick I cannot get on with

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[herald_400rl]

Am I the only one left who applies the handbrake when they stop? That prevents restart. why would you ever move an automatic out of drive except when parking?
the current rented audi q2 has to have the clutch depressed to start the engine & the brake pressed to release the handbrake.
The stop/start should not work if the air con is on.
its invention was due to the fact that many councils/regions/countries are implementing "turn off engine " to curtail emissions when stopped at crossing/lights kerb ,etc. many councils have bylaws in place that can be enforced by parking attendants etc


I do . but as above & in many council areas if you do not have stop/start you are meant to physically turn off your engine whislt waiting then restart. more nonsense as most vehicles these days have a fail safe system which means you have to wait for all the lights to go out before restarting.In many cases here the lights change before you can restart.
In many newer cars this is also why there is no way to disable the stop/start except at the dealers.

Applying the handbrake in ours is reaching forward and pushing a button under the dash, and if you've manually applied it you have to manually remove it by pulling said button, I'm almost convinced it's designed to be used as a "parking brake" rather than for use at stops.
If in the MH or van I use the handbrake, the vans is a foot pedal and hand release which takes some getting used to. MH is a standard reach down pull up job.

 

[dash300]

Disable the stop start every time I get in either car or van.
When a/c is on currently working overtime en route to Skye 27C currently!! it will stop and immediately kick in again totally pointess! Hate the stop start emisions fudge.

 

[rwg]

Well, we took the van out today as the weather was fine and had a nice walk along the river Lambourn.

Anyway, I took the opportunity to try out various tricks for allowing me to take my foot off the brake pedal without the stop/start bringing the engine back to life. To summarize...

• Putting the gear selector into neutral : doesn't work - the engine restarts as soon as you lift the brake pedal at all
• Using the handbrake : doesn't work - again engine restarts if you lift the brake pedal
• Putting the gear selector into park : DOES WORK - you have to do it as soon as the van stops, before the stop/start stops the engine (otherwise moving through reverse restarts it).

Thanks again Andy MacD for the suggestion

cheers,

Robin

 

[Andy MacD]

(otherwise moving through reverse restarts it

you can still go to park when stop start has activated but the timing is difficult, too fast or too slow and the engine re starts, the 80/20 rule applies here as elsewhere in life.

 

[rwg]

I will have to try that next time out

cheers,

Robin

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[rwg]

Yep, the move through to 'P' after the engine stops works fine as long as you do it fairly swiftly - I suspect if you linger too long in 'R' then that gets you a restart. I think I'm getting this stop/start thing sorted now

I'm also getting better at spotting when a DPF regeneration is happening (to avoid interrupting it if possible). The symptoms are that the mpg drops away as though you are driving it like a loon even if you are taking it steady. Also, the smart alternator stops doing its 'let the voltage drop when the engine is under load' thing during the regeneration. I have an on-dash OBD speedo which shows the 12V voltage too - that will normally drop down to about 12.5V when the engine is under load and rise to about 15V when coasting/braking. However with a regen in progress it doesn't drop below about 14V.

cheers,

Robin

 

[Jonno1103]

What I want to know (in a vaguely curious sort of way) is why it sometimes stop/starts and at other times it doesnt. It seems the OP also finds this situation. I quite like the s/s but it just doesnt always do it.

It's because the amps in the starter battery are low, it'll only work when adequately charged.

 

[Jonno1103]

One of the first things we do in the moho & and cars is turn the stupid function off.

 

[CazPaul]

I must get into the modern world, all I know is cars with a key which you shove in the ignition to start, then the engine runs continuously until you turn that bloody key and pull it out.