Auto or manual?

[Colson]

I know this has probably already been posted in the past, but….does the size of a MH mean an auto box makes life easier or is it just down to personal preferences?

 

[dunnah01]

I don't know if the roadster is better but my memories of smart cars are 5 second gear changes!

They're not that quick

I've tricked up the gear change and it's plenty snappy enough now in flappy paddle mode.

 

[funflair]

What gearbox? Comformtic or proper torque converter one? The only flappy paddle/auto gearbox I think I would want would be a double clutch one like on Audi/Lamborghini. They are the only ones with decent quick changes like you can do on manual. Nothing like that available on motorhomes sadly.

Are you sure you can beat a ZF or don’t you bother with the clutch

 

[PaulW2]

I had a Merc with the flappy paddles and have a BMW with the same (3 litre engines).

The paddles are completely redundant because the ZF gearbox is so much better and quicker than you are. It's best just to leave it to its own devices.

 

[CustomBuild]

I have full control if I want it. I can shift gears with paddles. So I get the best of both worlds

Me too. The auto works perfectly almost all of the time, then for steep downhills I use the paddles and let the extra engine braking come into play.

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[VXman]

Are you sure you can beat a ZF or don’t you bother with the clutch

OK, add the ZF in too. When motorhomers start building on a BMW platform with a ZF gearbox I'll get a auto. Or maybe the Ford 150 with a 5th wheel.

Actually the ZF is considered to be slower than the DSG in terms of gear changes but is more fuel efficient and maybe smoother. When it comes down to it the DSG is a 'proper' clutch gearbox whereas the ZF is a slush box.

 

[enark]

OK, add the ZF in too. When motorhomers start building on a BMW platform with a ZF gearbox I'll get a auto.

Actually the ZF is considered to be slower than the DSG in terms of gear changes but is more fuel efficient and maybe smoother. When it comes down to it the DSG is a 'proper' clutch gearbox whereas the ZF is a slush box.

BMW car or bike platform? I am not aware they make vans?

Shame Volvo dont though.

 

[Pausim]

OK, add the ZF in too. When motorhomers start building on a BMW platform with a ZF gearbox I'll get a auto.

Actually the ZF is considered to be slower than the DSG in terms of gear changes but is more fuel efficient and maybe smoother. When it comes down to it the DSG is a 'proper' clutch gearbox whereas the ZF is a slush box.

The DSG is lightning quick but the Ducato 9 speed is plenty quick enough for a motorhome and I find it quicker than the manual one I took for a test drive.

 

[PaulW2]

OK, add the ZF in too. When motorhomers start building on a BMW platform with a ZF gearbox I'll get a auto. Or maybe the Ford 150 with a 5th wheel.

Actually the ZF is considered to be slower than the DSG in terms of gear changes but is more fuel efficient and maybe smoother. When it comes down to it the DSG is a 'proper' clutch gearbox whereas the ZF is a slush box.

Now you've made me look. The DSG can apparently change in 8 ms to the ZF's 200ms. Which compares with a fast manual change of 500ms. And, in the real world, a manual change that takes maybe a second.

In practical terms this is all equal in the sense of being perfectly fast enough.

When I did a daily commute around the M25 the auto box in the car was a godsend. If I did the same in a motorhome I would probably have a strong preference for an auto box.

But the motorhome is driven differently. Maybe 90% of the distance covered is moving from A to B at some speed with few gear changes. Quite little is spent stuck in rush hour traffic. I can literally drive for some hours (through Spain, say) without a single gear change.

And when I need to manoeuvre slowly a manual box gives good fine control. Or when I need to descend a long hill it can be helpful.

Compared with the panic attacks and limp modes, the 'clutch has overheated' histrionics, the general slushiness and imprecision of the Agile Auto box I once had the manual wins hands down every time.

Compared with a ZF box? Not sure, but given different driving patterns I don't think there is all that much in it.

And, of course, when you drive a manual long term gear changes take no real thought as such. The changes are done 'automatically', maybe not quite like breathing, but like walking, or maybe a steering correction or changing accelerator pressure.

 

[VXman]

The DSG is lightning quick but the Ducato 9 speed is plenty quick enough for a motorhome and I find it quicker than the manual one I took for a test drive.

Well, the quickness and smoothness of a manual box mostly depends on the skill of the driver -as does fuel consumption.

Look, basically I like to keep doing stuff myself. I have manual garage doors to make me get out of the car and open them. My car has manual window winders - good exercise for the wrists! Actually I cycle most places - into town, supermarket shopping. Trying to keep moving and active - including my left leg and arm. It also keeps the brain active. Less likely hood of falling asleep than in your comfy, smooth autobox car.

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[Jonno1103]

Simple answer for me is auto if you buy Fiat as you only get the torque with the 9 speed or new 8 speed ZF. The torque difference in the 180 is huge... 180 MT 380Nm, 180 AT 450Nm.
Same for the 140... 140 MT 350Nm, 140 AT 380Nm.

For me It's about having a drive train that can do the job right & currently for Fiat that means auto every time. Stellantis know this hence why the auto option is so expensive, it's not just about convenience, the Series 9 & 10 Ducato is a totally different beast in terms of power, performance & economy with either the 9 or 8 speed ZF bolted on.

 

[enark]

Well, the quickness and smoothness of a manual box mostly depends on the skill of the driver -as does fuel consumption.

Look, basically I like to keep doing stuff myself. I have manual garage doors to make me get out of the car and open them. My car has manual window winders - good exercise for the wrists! Actually I cycle most places - into town, supermarket shopping. Trying to keep moving and active - including my left leg and arm. It also keeps the brain active. Less likely hood of falling asleep than in your comfy, smooth autobox car.

Why dont you remove the starter motor, and get a cranking handle? Great exercise?

Or remove the engine and pedal?

 

[funflair]

OK, add the ZF in too. When motorhomers start building on a BMW platform with a ZF gearbox I'll get a auto. Or maybe the Ford 150 with a 5th wheel.

Actually the ZF is considered to be slower than the DSG in terms of gear changes but is more fuel efficient and maybe smoother. When it comes down to it the DSG is a 'proper' clutch gearbox whereas the ZF is a slush box.

The IVECO daily uses the ZF 8HP mated to the 4cylinder 210hp, yes the DSG is considered quicker but of of course the gear changes are all "offline" and only the clutches change when it wants another gear.

 

[clonkel]

Auto but we have manual (Fiat) due to the crazy increase in cost of an auto

The dealer said that they produce fewer autos and they are in high demand therefore the price reflects that (no idea if this is correct or not)

 

[PaulW2]

Auto but we have manual (Fiat) due to the crazy increase in cost of an auto

The dealer said that they produce fewer autos and they are in high demand therefore the price reflects that (no idea if this is correct or not)

We're a storytelling species and love a good narrative and good salesmen give us one.

I suspect the answer is just that the auto boxes are more expensive to produce and buy in from ZF.

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[InvictaMoto]

Over the years I have had a few automatics going back to my 1967 Singer Vogue. A superb car for it's era. The Fiat 132 Mirafiori auto was pretty gutless. The Fiat 2000 and the following Argenta autos were superb cars. The Argenta even didn't rust away.

When I came to motorhoming I looked for an automatic. We already have a Nissan Juke auto and it's actually a pleasure to drive, especially on the longer journeys that involve heavy traffic. I couldn't find an auto in my price range!

So this week enter the Malibu 600 GT Auto. It's got the 9-speed Fiat auto and I am hoping that it's as nice to drive as the Nissan.

 

[Orion]

It would be interesting if those who are adamant that they wouldn’t consider a modern auto in a moho would say if they have actually driven one - especially the current ZF 9 in the Ducato.

Reading through the posts from the diehard manual fans since my last, it appears that not many have actually driven a Ducato with the ZF 9HP in it then! Colour me unsurprised.

 

[Jonno1103]

Reading through the posts from the diehard manual fans since my last, it appears that not many have actually driven a Ducato with the ZF 9HP in it then! Colour me unsurprised.

You can tell a manual box driver is behind the wheel of an auto, they live on the brake pedal. I've only been allowed to drive auto's for 27 years now due to a bike accident when I was 29. Driving auto requires different techniques.
I've tried them all over the years in various vans, the comfortmatic being one of the less responsive. The 9 speed ZF is excellent, I've been told the 8 speed gives more torque in the lower gears.
The 6 speed in the Transit regardless of engine is too responsive due to the engines being powerful, you can easily wheel spin even with traction control... the 130 has 385Nm regardless of gearbox. Their new 8 speed increases this to 390Nm and pushes the now used 165 engine to 435Nm.

 

[HaggisBoy]

After 35 years of avoiding automatics I actually bought a 160hp Ducato (9 speed ZF) in March 2020.

The primary reason was getting the auto was because my wife has no mechanical sympathy at all. She seems to be unable to spot the different between revving the nuts of the engine vs. almost stalling due to being in too high a gear.
So getting the automatic would me no more 'discussions' about how+when to change gear. Also, the ease of use would mean that she'd actually drive it.

Now that I've driven 10,000 miles I still think it's totally brilliant and worth every penny. I have to concentrate to spot the gear changes. On long motorway type journeys it doesn't make much difference but it's really helpful in tricky situations, like mountain passes or awkward junctions on hills, as it takes away the mental load of also managing the gears.
It has no trouble keeping up with the traffic and the only time I've ever used full throttle is just to see how fast it can accelerate.

 

[Orion]

On long motorway type journeys it doesn't make much difference …….

I’m sure I read it somewhere on the forum that the top 3 ratios in the ZF are all higher than 6th in the manual box, effectively overdrives, so possibly can have an influence on economy etc.

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[funflair]

I’m sure I read it somewhere on the forum that the top 3 ratios in the ZF are all higher than 6th in the manual box, effectively overdrives, so possibly can have an influence on economy etc.

We have the 8 speed ZF in an IVECO daily and I would say that yes the top two gears are higher than our previous 6 speed manual.