Auto changeover relay for inverter

[Reallyretired]

As per Eddies link earlier
Link Removed

Trouble is, this diagram is for a boat, which sits in water and is grounded, unlike a motorhome which sits on rubber tyres and isn't. You may have earth continuity within the motorhome but it isn't grounded unless you are on ehu or have a ground spike.

Whether or not it is earthed may be a red herring anyway as the RCD should still work, as long as the connection between earth and neutral is only within the inverter and nowhere else in the circuit, which would normally be the case.

 

[Techno]

As I understand it the boats grounding anode system is purely because it may be wooden or GRP it says OR Vehicle Chassis

The fact that it's an example of a boat is the red herring, it still applies to vehicles

You say a vehicle is not earthed because of its tyres Likewise a boat in fresh water ! clean water does not or is a very poor conductor of electricity which is why we have to bond and cross bond water pipes

 

[eddie]

Fitting and RCD causes debate, of that there is no doubt.

However, We (Van Bitz) have included them as standard for some years now since the manufacturers told us to.

In this world of litigation, we tend to follow the manufacturers instructions, even when it is debatable.

In my RV the ring main was identified and runs through a Dometic inverter/charger which will allow a 4000w load for up to 30 minutes and will run at 2500w continuously. I am happier knowing that there is a RCD in series.

Mastervolt, Sterling,Dometic,Victron all show the inclusion of a RCD when installing a permanently fitted inverter.

I favour the whole ring main being available for using inverted AC (power) for convenience. Everything works as it should. Obviously things like water heaters and chargers should be excluded should they be on the original circuit.

Again in my RV I have heated black and grey waste tanks, but I felt that the heat was inadequate in the water tank locker. We installed a 75 watt A/C tube heater. This can be run from the inverter. My inverter/charger like many similar systems automatcially cuts in when my mains is unplugged, so I maintain tank heating when travelling.

Another advantage of the inverter being in series with the sockets is a function (from some manufacturers )called "power support"

Hook up is limited to say 10 amps, and my wife clicks the hair dryer on when other things are on taking the load to any 16amps:Sad: the inverter will automatically step in and supply via inversion the 6amp difference, to all intents and purposes immediately :thumb:

This of course means that Eddie isn't traipsing around in the rain resetting hoop up trips

Cheers

Eddie

 

[Techno]

How's the relay working Paul?

As above for Haganap
I'm fitting another soon to the new van Robbie.
I have 2 115ah elecsols up front supported by 50 amp Sterling BtoB (inherited but rewired by me) supported by overflow from solar charge on rear bank with CBE CSB2 fitted to my battery bank selector switch.
The rear bank is 3 x 125ah sealed units supported by 300 watts of solar and will primarily power the sterling 1800watt inverter when required but can support bank 1 if depleted.
In theory if I select banks 1+2 the BtoB should deliver to all 5 batteries.
Front bank

Rear so far
Batteries in place

Shelf fitted

Storage sorted and room for millenco's

Mostly wired now, solars to do and a couple of bits

Remote fitted for inverter

If there's not too much snow overnight the auto changeover wiil be fitted to power 4 230 volt sockets kitchen/diner

 

[haganap]

Working fine and dandy Andy :thumb:

Been so useful, the thing I like most about it? It's being able to make porridge in the morning without dirtying the saucepan and having to move stuff around the kitchen after a heavy night. Straight in the Microwave, flick the switch, and hey presto 1 min later hot food. I use the B2B to keep the power flying in if using the MW later in the day. I went for 6 days over New Year without any hook up, just starting my van twice.

Must say though ANdy, yours is very very tidy... Im not letting you look in mine

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[Techno]

For those struck with fear
[ame="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0042L5670/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A3LCOLEEP6SIHK"]In-Line RCD Circuit Breaker rewireable IP54 13A 30mS/mA: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics[/ame]

 

[Popeye]

For those struck with fear
In-Line RCD Circuit Breaker rewireable IP54 13A 30mS/mA: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics

Now that is a neat bit-a-kit.....cheers..:thumb:

 

[Techno]

Heavier duty version
[ame="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Silverline-Line-RCD-16A-230-250V/dp/B004P3VSKO/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top"]Silverline In Line RCD 16A 230-250V: Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools[/ame]

 

[SuperMike]

As above for Haganap
I'm fitting another soon to the new van Robbie.
I have 2 115ah elecsols up front supported by 50 amp Sterling BtoB (inherited but rewired by me) supported by overflow from solar charge on rear bank with CBE CSB2 fitted to my battery bank selector switch.
The rear bank is 3 x 125ah sealed units supported by 300 watts of solar and will primarily power the sterling 1800watt inverter when required but can support bank 1 if depleted.
In theory if I select banks 1+2 the BtoB should deliver to all 5 batteries.
Front bank

Rear so far
Batteries in place

Shelf fitted

Storage sorted and room for millenco's

Mostly wired now, solars to do and a couple of bits

Remote fitted for inverter

If there's not too much snow overnight the auto changeover wiil be fitted to power 4 230 volt sockets kitchen/diner

All looks good. Except picture two where both the positive and negative take off's are from the same battery. Perhaps better if as per this link.

.

 

[Techno]

No I'm happy as is . The interconnecting cable is 35mm,it's practically one big battery.

Edit having read it LOL I'm still happy as is but thanks

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[SuperMike]

 

[Techno]

Finished the electrics last week, got the third solar glued on and nice output for February Should see near 20 amps in the good months

 

[Sidney]

Hi Andy,

Thanks for all your work in this thread. I considered all the options, including the idea of wiring the inverter into the EHU, but thought this would present more problems than it is worth with the fridge on automatic!

I've been a bit of a lazy sod and bought some pre-wired 20 amp Wieland sockets and an IP65 enclosure with glands to house the relay. :Blush:

I bought a Masterline pure sine inverter via Fleabay and the manufacturer makes a fuss about the need for a RCD protection. Because it doesn't have a socket (just a terminal connection) I'll use the in-line RCD you found between the inverter and relay.

:thumb::thumb::thumb:

 

[Techno]

I'm changing my auto changeover to a dual channel model tomorrow to cover both sides of the van

 

[jhorsf]

Techno do you have any payload left for anything but electrics

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[Techno]

Yes stacks :thumb: and I can up plate it to 4500 if I run out :Cool:

 

[Techno]

Fitted this morning

 

[Mike B]

Good gen and thanks for your trouble.

Could you not upload this kind of info into the download section, then it will always be available.

Thanks again

Mike

 

[Techno]

It's not a file so how can it be a download

 

[Mike B]

It's not a file so how can it be a download

Insert your comment & photos in word, then it becomes a file.

If you like I could do for you.

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[haganap]

Now your just showing off Mr Techno... Ill keep mine as it is, but I do intend on tidying it all up soon enough though

 

[Techno]

Go ahead :thumb:
Lots of threads to go at I've been busy

 

[Techno]

The RCD version. It is actually quite big

 

[Bart]

@Techno Andy i'm loving this idea and am going to install 2 of these into my MH
however i want to make sure i do it right , and don't wire it up wrong, so can you tell me is the following correct :
pins 24 & 14 are the normally open pins where i should connect Neutral & Live from the mains socket ring , these should also be connected to pins A2 & A1
pins 21 & 11 are the common pins where i should connect Neutral & Live going out to the mains socket
pins 22 & 12 are the normally closed pins where i should connect Neutral & Live from the inverter
Connect the three earths together.

Thanks

 

[Techno]

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[Bart]

Thank you @Techno

 

[Bart]

Andy with the above setup what would hapen if you connected to an EHU and the inverter was on and then an electrical was used , would all be ok ?
Also if i used say like a 1600W appliance on my 1500W inverter to see if it would work , if it never worked would the inverter just not work and that would be ok you know said appliance will not work.
Or would it blow a fuse in the inverter , or in my case my inverter has like a line of 5+ fuses.

 

[Techno]

I cannot imagine a situation where you would deliberately have your inverter turned on AND under load whilst at the same time plugging in the mains hook up. That would be folly and bad management and potentially send mains back up the inverter midst contact throw. SO AVOID doing that.
A 1500watt inverter will take double that for a short period. 1500 watt will be its continuous output rating and should NOT be exceeded.

 

[Bart]

Thanks , yip i thought it would be bad having both going at the same time,, and ofc that situation would not happen intentionally , but accidents can happen, like be staying wild and using the inverter , then the next morning moving along , then you decide to stay at a site and ofc then plug in the ehu while forgetting that you had the inverter switched on.
ofc it will have to be another line added to "the take of manual" lol

 

[premiere99]

Andy with the above setup what would hapen if you connected to an EHU and the inverter was on and then an electrical was used , would all be ok ?

You cannot have both EHU and inverter connected to the load at the same time, the relay will brake before make so it would switch supplies but with a very short break in power supply when the EHU powered the relay.

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