At last - I’ve upgraded to Lithium

[Wissel]

This is what concerns me as right from the beginning the setup was wrong . They asked me to change some settings - even the basic settings were wrong - ie system was set for 1x100amp/h but I had 4 !
Then there were my 3 emails asking how on earth we were using 7-10kwh per day when everything was off!!! Got a reply but no explanation

Sounds like a pretty slapdash install tbh. Or installed by someone that doesn't fully understand how to do it maybe?
(I know that sounds harsh, but I've seen installs by a few well known companies that are a bit iffy IMHO)

Still can't see how LiFePO4 cells themselves could be a fire risk though. I mean dodgy cabling could be, or a different chemistry Lithium battery maybe? (without knowing what batteries you had fitted)

 

[R RV]

Sounds like a pretty slapdash install tbh. Or installed by someone that doesn't fully understand how to do it maybe?
(I know that sounds harsh, but I've seen installs by a few well known companies that are a bit iffy IMHO)

Still can't see how LiFePO4 cells themselves could be a fire risk though. I mean dodgy cabling could be, or a different chemistry Lithium battery maybe? (without knowing what batteries you had fitted)

Sounds like a pretty slapdash install tbh. Or installed by someone that doesn't fully understand how to do it maybe?
(I know that sounds harsh, but I've seen installs by a few well known companies that are a bit iffy IMHO)

Still can't see how LiFePO4 cells themselves could be a fire risk though. I mean dodgy cabling could be, or a different chemistry Lithium battery maybe? (without knowing what batteries you had fitted)

i get that but I chose this supplier because I’d seen him on the dometic stand and the victron stand over 4 years of going to the NEC motorhome show. And I’d spoken too him every year about what I wanted to do .

I think the problem was he had my rv from July 2020 until April 2021!!!!!!
i also think he started the job then left it for weeks then picked it up again - which was why I had so many unfinished items

 

[Hoovie]

Like others have said, most Victron chargers can do a great job with LiFePO4. My B2B is a Votronic, and although not as adaptable as my Victron MPPT & EHU charger, the profile I have it set to works great and never over charges.

Also, some BMS's can be set to lower the battery capacity, as well as switch charging/loads off at programable voltages.

I have my setup set very conservatively, with my battery capacity set at 80% and final charge voltage set on the low side (float voltage at 13.6v/3.4v per cell). My cells are set to balance at 3.4v.

On the low end, my BMS will switch off loads if any cell goes down to 2.98v (this works great under the loads I use).

Hi Dave (you will know me from the motorhomer/wildcamping under the Wildebus name)
Are you still running the Winston/123Smart setup?

 

[Otter Spotter]

Not to want to put a dampener on matters but I upgraded to lithium recently and I’m now waiting for a forensic investigation on how my RV was totally destroyed in a fire Just a few weeks after installation.

To be fair I had a huge amount of work done so at the moment it could be anything that caused the fire. But hopefully we’ll find out friday

Did you find out the cause if the fire?

 

[Wissel]

Hi Dave (you will know me from the motorhomer/wildcamping under the Wildebus name)
Are you still running the Winston/123Smart setup?

Hey Dave, how you doing?

Yep, still have the Winston/123 setup and very happy with it. I did swap my charging over from a Votronic Triple to a Votronic B2B and Victron MPPT and EHU last year - but that's a different question

I'm also still running the same 240v fridge and again, very happy with it. Think I read you swapped vans to a coachbuilt? Did you stick with your fridge?

I saw a brief charge curve you put up on YouTube so take it you are now on LiFePO4 as well? What did you go for?

Good to hear from you

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[Abacist]

Lithium sounds great but unless you have cash to burn I can't see the point of doing it unless you are at the point when you need to replace your batteries or something else significant in the system has failed or your present system isn't cutting the mustard for the way you use your van. Halving the battery weight can hardly be a reason to change.

Presently I have 2 decent lead acid battery banks. I have 2 solar panels of 260watts total with 2 Victron MPPT controllers that have a lithium setting when I need one. I have a CBE charger that does not have a lithium setting so that would need to be replaced. I have a Sterling B2B that I haven't checked but that might not have a lithium charge profile as it 6 years old and was one of Sterlings bargains at the time. Then there is the CBE split charge relay which might also need changing.

Having just watched the battery fire videos, by coincidence, I have just installed two bluetooth dongles for the 2 MPPT controllers. When I viewed them on the Victron Connect App for the first time, one of the controllers was set to charge at 24 volts! I immediately changed it to 12 volts. I have no idea if the App picked up a default setting or whether the MPPT controller was set on 24 volt charging but it was supplied and fitted professionally!

I am about to go out and fit a Victron SmartShunt so that I will be able to see that on the App. I suppose the next thing when I have become addicted to viewing all the stats in the van, on bluetooth, will be to get the system upgraded to the VRM version so that I can check the van over the internet when I am nowhere near it to check the system is OK!

Oh and I've just read a thread about TV over the internet rather than by satellite so when the Oyster packs up I'll have room for an air conditioning unit on the roof! I do already have a Huawei MIFI and an Amazon firestick so we are part of the way there!

I still have not got around to getting self levelling installed either so I have plenty of jobs and upgrades and jobs to keep me amused for a while as well as depleting my hard earned!

Getting and running a motorhome is definitely the wanderer's version of a man cave!

 

[Motorhomer14]

The wiring might be the culprit, but it wont be the batteries themselves

thanks for that video, great one to watch and shows why LifePo is not as dangerous as people say

 

[Hoovie]

Hey Dave, how you doing?

Yep, still have the Winston/123 setup and very happy with it. I did swap my charging over from a Votronic Triple to a Votronic B2B and Victron MPPT and EHU last year - but that's a different question

View attachment 501000View attachment 501001

I'm also still running the same 240v fridge and again, very happy with it. Think I read you swapped vans to a coachbuilt? Did you stick with your fridge?

I saw a brief charge curve you put up on YouTube so take it you are now on LiFePO4 as well? What did you go for?

Good to hear from you

Good stuff. I was (and still am) very impressed with your Lithium build

Have an Autotrail now which I do really like. However it has a standard 3-way Thetford in the Motorhome which uses 7 times more power on average then the Fridge in the Camper If the 3-way breaks (or someone wants one!) I would swap it for a Compressor without a moments hesitation!

I do have LiFePO4 now. I do also still have Lead! I am running them together as a Lithium/Lead Hybrid System (100Ah Lithium + 300Ah Lead Carbon) and it is working very nicely and a great cost-effective way to have large battery power AND fast recharging
Lithium takes care of the regular day-to-day load and the lead just sits there in the background, but if I draw more than about 75Ah or pull a heavy load the lead joins the party (totally automatically and in the background - you can see the middle graph for the lead just sitting at 100%)

not really gone out much in the van so load has not been that high

 

[Motorhomer14]

Wow that was interesting- I had new Trojan engine batteries (flooded) I might check out fire from flooded ! Thanks

I thought you had lithium installed when you said about being carful in your previous post. flooded cells are lead acid. Its very sad to hear your loss on the van from an installation you paid for, I hope you get some comeback on this but still annoying with all the waiting for the investigation. I would do as much research as you can so you are not fobbed off. Usually it will not be the battery but the installation. If all the cabling was correctly sized and correct fuses put in place then the fuses should have ruptured before any fire. I have worked on a lot of systems where high current has flown, there are times when a fuse takes too long to blow and cables have melted but they should be able to pin this to a short circuit somewhere.
It will be interesting to know the outcome of any investigation

 

[Ingwe]

I am taking the plunge and am awaiting an installation date at RoadPro, following the good reports on this post.
The only concern I have is the reduction in storage space, already limited, in our 2012 Bailey 620 Approach. The ‘add-ons’ required for the lithium battery are themselves quite bulky from the posted photos. Anyway, feel quite reassured we’re making the right decision after reading all the threads posted on the subject. Even the one about fire destroying the RV.

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[Wissel]

Good stuff. I was (and still am) very impressed with your Lithium build

Have an Autotrail now which I do really like. However it has a standard 3-way Thetford in the Motorhome which uses 7 times more power on average then the Fridge in the Camper If the 3-way breaks (or someone wants one!) I would swap it for a Compressor without a moments hesitation!

I do have LiFePO4 now. I do also still have Lead! I am running them together as a Lithium/Lead Hybrid System (100Ah Lithium + 300Ah Lead Carbon) and it is working very nicely and a great cost-effective way to have large battery power AND fast recharging
Lithium takes care of the regular day-to-day load and the lead just sits there in the background, but if I draw more than about 75Ah or pull a heavy load the lead joins the party (totally automatically and in the background - you can see the middle graph for the lead just sitting at 100%)
View attachment 501005
not really gone out much in the van so load has not been that high

I like that. How did you achieve the auto changeover? Similar thing that Victron use to split EHU with the MultiPlus?

Our loads are quite high. We did go fulltime and we use around 1.5kw per 24 hours, but solar and LiFePO4 are working well and not needed any other charging for the last few months. Considering the weather, I'm happy about this.

I have something else I'd like to pick your brains on, but I'll PM you about it so not to take over this thread. Oh, and if I can't find a unit to work from soon, then we will likely be coming up to Scotland in a few months

I am taking the plunge and am awaiting an installation date at RoadPro, following the good reports on this post.
The only concern I have is the reduction in storage space, already limited, in our 2012 Bailey 620 Approach. The ‘add-ons’ required for the lithium battery are themselves quite bulky from the posted photos. Anyway, feel quite reassured we’re making the right decision after reading all the threads posted on the subject. Even the one about fire destroying the RV.

The add-ons don't need to be bulky. A Votronic Triple charger (all in one B2B/EHU/MPPT) is quite small and combined with a LiFePO4 battery with good BMS, is all that's needed for a really nice setup. RoadPro are the main importer of Votronic.

 

[Hoovie]

I like that. How did you achieve the auto changeover? Similar thing that Victron use to split EHU with the MultiPlus?

Our loads are quite high. We did go fulltime and we use around 1.5kw per 24 hours, but solar and LiFePO4 are working well and not needed any other charging for the last few months. Considering the weather, I'm happy about this.

I have something else I'd like to pick your brains on, but I'll PM you about it so not to take over this thread. Oh, and if I can't find a unit to work from soon, then we will likely be coming up to Scotland in a few months



The add-ons don't need to be bulky. A Votronic Triple charger (all in one B2B/EHU/MPPT) is quite small and combined with a LiFePO4 battery with good BMS, is all that's needed for a really nice setup. RoadPro are the main importer of Votronic.

This is the great thing .... it is totally automatic, effect is graduated (so the Lead contribution builds and the Lithium reduces as the Lithium SOC falls), and all based on the characteristics of the different battery technologies. Basically a lucky happenstance
There is one slight 'gotcha' in that it would be ideal (note ideal, not required) to disconnect the Lithium once all the following factors are true:

• Lithium charged
• Voltage above Float
• No Load on System (so say Solar Harvesting is greater or equal to the demand

I have a Special Customised Disconnect system arriving in a couple of weeks time to put this final piece in the Hybrid Jigsaw
I like the setup as it means I have 300Ah of Lead Carbon (a Battery Technology that can, if required, be taken down as deep as Lithium) for 3/4 the cost of a single 100Ah LiFePO4.


Be good to see you

 

[BillandHelen]

I am taking the plunge and am awaiting an installation date at RoadPro, following the good reports on this post.
The only concern I have is the reduction in storage space, already limited, in our 2012 Bailey 620 Approach. The ‘add-ons’ required for the lithium battery are themselves quite bulky from the posted photos. Anyway, feel quite reassured we’re making the right decision after reading all the threads posted on the subject. Even the one about fire destroying the RV.

Hi, the Votronic 30amp b2b and equivalent MPPT solar regulators are really small, that’s why I went for 2 of the 30amps rather than a much larger 50amp Votronic. if you need sizes or better pictures let me know.
Bill

 

[DBK]

I’ve been planning to switch to lithium for about 2 years now and I’m hugely grateful to members here who have so freely given their advice and answered my (sometimes stupid) questions, thank you funflair! We picked up our new Wildax Elara in the middle of April and decided to get the upgrade done at the beginning, unfortunately the manufacturer didn’t offer a lithium upgrade when we ordered.

The original spec of the Elara was pretty good, Votronic 30amp b2b with lithium setting, NDS MPPT solar regulator with lithium setting, CBE 516 charger with no lithium setting (shame) and 2 difficult to access, near impossible to move or maintain Banner 110 amp batteries. All very neatly installed.

View attachment 496216

We decided to use Roadpro, they supply Wildax with all batteries/chargers etc including the lithium batteries for their new Volt package.

We went for 2 x 100amp NDS lithium, both with 150amp bms’s to ensure enough power for induction hob, microwave, coffee maker, straighteners etc (one at a time obviously!). We also fitted a 2000w inverter, wired to all the sockets for ease of use and with automatic switching and remote control. We had a 2nd Votronic 30amp b2b, so 60amp total, all monitored through a shunt and a Votronic monitor and Bluetooth phone app.

Quality of the install was first class, Damien the fitter was professional and answered all my newbie questions. They also provided a loan car and let you stay overnight on their premises, my install took about a day and a half.

So far all seems good, though very early days, didn’t use the mains charger yesterday at all, battery went down to 94%, when I started the engine 42amps were pumped in! Am at SAP today to get levellers fitted, Mick was delayed on a job, so I boiled a kettle for a cup of tea on the induction hob, 142 amps out, took about 2 mins, down to 96%, I could get used to this!!

Some pictures of the install.

View attachment 496217View attachment 496218

View attachment 496221

Is there any protection for the electrical stuff (battery charger etc) on the left? It looks a bit vulnerable, for example if you put some folding chairs in the storage space. Otherwise, it all looks good.

 

[BillandHelen]

Is there any protection for the electrical stuff (battery charger etc) on the left? It looks a bit vulnerable, for example if you put some folding chairs in the storage space. Otherwise, it all looks good.

Hi, we have 2 electric bromptons safely wrapped in storage bags in the boot, and for table and chairs we use Helinox folders that pack down to tiny bags, quite amazing really. So we keep a 6 inch gap for ventilation all round, there is a heating vent in garage too. But agree, it’s something I’m v conscious about when packing.

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[Ingwe]

Hi, the Votronic 30amp b2b and equivalent MPPT solar regulators are really small, that’s why I went for 2 of the 30amps rather than a much larger 50amp Votronic. if you need sizes or better pictures let me know.
Bill

Yes, I'd very much appreciate any pictures, sizes etc. PM me if necessary.
thanks

 

[scotzsue]

Looking at lifePo as we really only have space for one battery unless we use the garage and that is at the other end iof the van from the existing battery and charger, thought they had to be together or as near as possible
.

 

[Portland]

Looks a nice job but I've been wondering whats going on with Roadpro?
They're phone is constantly straight to voicemail with no alternative number given so the only option is to message them. Their website suggests that they still do supply items but you can't consult with them?

John I have been trying to get in touch with them myself using their website without success, however I used their e-mail today and got a reply!! I'm now recovering from the shock

 

[paddymcc]

Looking at lifePo as we really only have space for one battery unless we use the garage and that is at the other end iof the van from the existing battery and charger, thought they had to be together or as near as possible
.

They can be a distance away but you do then need big cables sizes so having everything closer together is definitely better

 

[scotzsue]

They can be a distance away but you do then need big cables sizes so having everything closer together is definitely better

That is what I thought would be difficult to get them to the pther battery except by putting cables under the van and I don't like that idea, it's a nuiscance as there is a locker next to the existing battery but it has the handle for releasing grey waste right in the middle
often wonder what thoughts are going through designers minds. or if they have ever used a motorhome.

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[paddymcc]

as there is a locker next to the existing battery but it has the handle for releasing grey waste right in the middle

That's a shame as sounds as if it would be ideal. Could you move the waste pipe and handle?

Agree I wouldn't be keen to have the cables outside unless well protected.

 

[scotzsue]

That's a shame as sounds as if it would be ideal. Could you move the waste pipe and handle?

Agree I wouldn't be keen to have the cables outside unless well protected.

unfortunately the waste tank is directly below, am sure if he set his mind to it John could sort something out, you'ld never know he is a retired design engineer

 

[Hoovie]

maybe 2 smaller batteries if it can't be moved? one either side.

 

[R RV]

Did you find out the cause if the fire?

Yes definitely started in the new power locker

forensic confirmed he was positive it started in here - which is where everything was newly installed :-(

 

[Hoovie]

very neatly done as well. Can't see it being an cabling fault looking at that (but you said something was wrong with very high power draw over a day? some piece of kit cooking itself and eventually overheated?)

bit skimpy on the cable out the Lynx distributor though! (joke. what is that? 100mm2? I use 70mm2 and that looks much thicker!)

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[Wissel]

Yes definitely started in the new power locker
View attachment 501453
forensic confirmed he was positive it started in here - which is where everything was newly installed :-(

Does look neat on the whole.

Do you know what the cables wrapped around the RH battery Live are for?

 

[Hoovie]

Does look neat on the whole.

Do you know what the cables wrapped around the RH battery Live are for?
View attachment 501525

I would take a guess and say that looks very much like a Victron Temp Sense cable.

 

[R RV]

Does look neat on the whole.

Do you know what the cables wrapped around the RH battery Live are for?
View attachment 501525

No I don’t ?

 

[Wissel]

No I don’t ?

I think Hoovie above is correct - it looks like a Victron temp sensor cable.

As far as I'm aware, this cable carries next to no current, so wouldn't contribute to a fire. I'd add that, if it is a temp sensor, it's a sign of a good installation. The reason it would (likely) be fitted is to enable the MPPT to read battery temps and switch charging off at high/low temps.

 

[R RV]

Seems bloody strange that the fire started in this locker but the install looks ok!!

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