Article about gas attacks

[olley]

Out of interest do exhaust fumes cause drowsiness. Is it a gas?

Not that I was driving at the time

Hi John exhaust gas contains carbon monoxide, the red blood cells have a greater affinity for this than they do for oxygen, which is why very small concentrations are so dangerous. for this reason its unlikely this has been used as there are no dead bodies.

Olley

 

[Road Runner]

Hi John exhaust gas contains carbon monoxide, the red blood cells have a greater affinity for this than they do for oxygen, which is why very small concentrations are so dangerous. for this reason its unlikely this has been used as there are no dead bodies.

Olley

I was only saying that as a BTW as it's a common suicide method.

We were all so dazed and confused and not in any mood to ask why, hows or whatevers we were on holiday.

Terrible experience hope no one else suffer it but they will and someone will no doubt will die one day and the experts will all claim then that is what they have been trying to tell people for years

 

[GeorgeTelford]

This one surely does run and run The Royal College of Anaesthetists would hate it if some toe rag could do what they do, without the 5 year training course and just a tin of Damp Start

That said, I am with the experts on this one. My gut feeling is that it doesn't happen, but my mind is not closed to evidence that might be produced to show that it does.

Hi Jim

Anaesthetists abandonded ether a long time ago, due to deaths, side effects etc.

Hi John, so the opinion of a Spanish cop is worth more than the Royal college of anaesthetists? the expert who put the mother away was discredited by peer review, so the analogy doesnt hold, unless of course you can produce a single anaesthetist who will explain why he believes it is possible and the methodology involved. Exhaust fumes cause death and brain damage.


Hi Scotjimland, Yes I have heard Johns story too and its like all the others, basically he was told he was gassed, not a shred of supporting evidence is ever shown, so the fact he was told he was gassed by the police doesnt really mean anything at all.

 

[Road Runner]

Hi Scotjimland, Yes I have heard Johns story too and its like all the others, basically he was told he was gassed, not a shred of supporting evidence is ever shown, so the fact he was told he was gassed by the police doesnt really mean anything at all.

Does when every vehicles around you has been mysteriously robbed simultaneously

and your insinuating what I say means nothingoh:thank you!kinda rude

 

[GeorgeTelford]

Hi John

If the spanish policeman had told you that you were robbed by aliens would that be proof? of course it would not, but for some reason you believe that a Spanish policemans equally baseless opinion on gas actually amounts to some kind of proof.....

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Road Runner]

Hi John

If the spanish policeman had told you that you were robbed by aliens would that be proof? of course it would not, but for some reason you believe that a Spanish policemans equally baseless opinion on gas actually amounts to some kind of proof.....

I have been warned by admin not to cause trouble by being personal although felt this thread being repeated was a wind up so I will take what you say as spot on (aliens) and not argue because I am getting slightly mad to say the least!

 

[wildcamper]

Gas attacks were a worry of ours, which stopped us going to Europe for a few years:Angry: We've been to Spain for the last 3 summers and although luckily we've not been robbed, on 2 occasions the drivers door has been opened during the night
I don't know enough about gas attacks to comment on them but any robbery whatever or not is used is very emotional, just the thought that someone has been through your van while your sleeping in it

 

[Harley Dave]

Have to agree with George T here - tho' it pains me somewhat. ("A" frames...)

Iberian Police would currently seem to be somewhat less capable than the good ole British Bobby - cue a host of contributors with Spanish policemen as son's in law...

IMHO the reason given (gas) was just to cover up the local plod's inability to protect tourists and/or solve the crime.

If the victim has an acceptable (to their insurer) police report then perhaps the problem ceases to be local and everyone is (relatively) happy

Please note I am in no way trying to diminish the trauma of being robbed - been there - done that - had the wallet stolen by a b@st@rd pickpocket - cornered him too - but I was just a callow youth and didn't "rip his head off" like I would now...

Surprised they didn't blame it on Martians actually!

PS I just read the Royal College of Anaesthetists(sp) link and they are specifically speaking about ether

These guys (and ladeez) will probably be so far up their own (scientific) @sses that they will (probably) ignore other gases (CO, N2O, etc) - which might have the effect of silently and dircreetly anaethsetising(sp) - or killing!! - "victims" - since that was not what was mentioned in the original query and they might give away "trade secrets".

I have (almost) regained an open(ish) mind on this one now - but are we suggesting the robbers carry an independant air supply in to the target 'van??

 

[Jim]

Gas Attack Alarms

More and more vans are being fitted with gas alarms, if these things are reliable and they start waking people up mid attack then we might learn something.

I haven't bought one of these alarms, if any members have; what gasses are they tuned to detect?

 

[American Dream]

I would have thought that to chalk it up as a gas attack, tests would have to be taken, but is there a test? I don't know

What evidence can someone who has been gassed give? I'm not sure.

I have no idea what a tin of ether would do, I wouldn't let you into my motorhome with one though

Hi Jim,

And I certainly wouldn't entertain the idea.oh:

It's just that speculation was there that this may be one method used.

It's certainly strange that the Companies have started producing detectors now.

There were a lot of reports originally from Long-Distance lorry drivers being targeted.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[GeorgeTelford]

I have been warned by admin not to cause trouble by being personal although felt this thread being repeated was a wind up so I will take what you say as spot on (aliens)

Hi John

This thread is not a repeat, it is new evidence, published on the Royal colleges website and as such is open to peer review. It was not posted as a wind up.

Everyone

None of the gasses mentioned in this thread are of any use at all in gas attack robberies, ether is mentioned specifically by the Royal college as it is the one commonly held out as "the gas" but they do go on to say their is no known gas else they would be looking to use it.....

Below is a clip from the advertising bumpf on a gas alarm, but look around and you will see that ether is mentioned in lots of advertising and virtually every time this subject comes up.

The reality is that the gas used is, in effect, ether and the most common form of commercially available ether is Easy Start which contains Diethyl ether and Naphtha.

 

[American Dream]

Hi John

This thread is not a repeat, it is new evidence, published on the Royal colleges website and as such is open to peer review. It was not posted as a wind up.

Everyone

None of the gasses mentioned in this thread are of any use at all in gas attack robberies, ether is mentioned specifically by the Royal college as it is the one commonly held out as "the gas" but they do go on to say their is no known gas else they would be looking to use it.....

Below is a clip from the advertising bumpf on a gas alarm, but look around and you will see that ether is mentioned in lots of advertising and virtually every time this subject comes up.

The reality is that the gas used is, in effect, ether and the most common form of commercially available ether is Easy Start which contains Diethyl ether and Naphtha.

"None of the gasses mentioned in this thread are of any use at all in gas attack robberies, "

And you seriously believe that?

So How come when they use nitrous oxide in a dentist, you pass out with no recollection of what happened?

It's a mystery to me.oh:

I think this is just another case of blinkered specialists reporting from text book conditions and not having actual experience of what happened IMHO.

They are obviously very knowledgeable on their own subject but not too good at thinking "outside the box".

 

[scotjimland]

Not just in Spain, Link Removed have also been reported on night trains in France and Italy where the victims claim gas was used..

 

[GeorgeTelford]

Hi Steve

Yes I seriously believe that, none of the gasses mentioned in this thread would be any use in a gas attack robbery.

Nitrous Oxide In general anesthesia it is used as a carrier gas in a 2:1 ratio with oxygen for more powerful general anaesthetic agents such as sevoflurane or desflurane.

see its a mystery no more

CO poisoning may also produce myocardial ischemia, atrial fibrillation, pneumonia, pulmonary edema, hyperglycemia, muscle necrosis, acute renal failure, skin lesions, visual and auditory problems, and respiratory arrest.

Long distance lorry drivers used to have to take a good kicking to lose their load, whether they were in on it or not, imagine the benefits of having been the subject of a gas attack, you could gently sleep through your load being unhooked and stolen.

 

[eddie]

How do the thieves not fall asleep then? Always puzzled me that one? and how do they get the gas in?

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[andyman]

Is anyone aware of someone being gassed in their house? Surely if it was possible we would be gassed in our bedrooms, my bedroom window is always open.

 

[olley]

Hi one of the big name footballers claimed just this 2-3 years ago, claimed it was introduced into the inlets of his hot air heating system.

Olley

 

[Ralph-Dot]

Nearly everyone I know who has had their house broken into (quite a few), were in the house at the time and slept through it, none think they were gassed.

Ralph

 

[scotjimland]

Is anyone aware of someone being gassed in their house?

Reported in Spain
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/06/11/wcosta11.xml

 

[Road Runner]

Nearly everyone I know who has had their house broken into (quite a few), were in the house at the time and slept through it, none think they were gassed.

Ralph

But did they enter their bedrooms where a Great Dane is sleeping climb over him and then lean lean right across the persons asleep and take things from a bedside cupboard?

Long distance lorry drivers used to have to take a good kicking to lose their load, whether they were in on it or not, imagine the benefits of having been the subject of a gas attack, you could gently sleep through your load being unhooked and stolen.

We'll leave it that I am gullible and a liar

I get really wound up about this so will do as admin have asked and stay out of further posts.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[scotjimland]

But did they enter their bedrooms where a Great Dane is sleeping ..

Hi John

This for me this was the most compelling part of your story, for who in there right mind would enter a vehicle with a huge dog on guard unless they already knew it was comatose...
I can't recall if you mentioned this or not but did the dog show any ill effects next day ?

 

[Road Runner]

Hi John

This for me this was the most compelling part of your story, for who in there right mind would enter a vehicle with a huge dog on guard unless they already knew it was comatose...
I can't recall if you mentioned this or not but did the dog show any ill effects next day ?

I'll PM you

 

[GeorgeTelford]

John

You are being ridiculous, no-one as accused you of being a liar.

 

[Jim]

"why did they not wake up"? "must of been gassed" Maybe this is the right assumption to make, but IMO on the evidence I have seen to date I think the gas explanation is used too quickly and without thinking it through. Thousands of people wake at home to find that they have been robbed, I have not heard it suggested that gas is used. Maybe it has.

The fact is, we often do wake up, there are hundreds of cases where motorhomers are woken by the sound of a thief trying to get in to their motorhome. Its when we do not wake, that we start to suspect gas might have been used as some way of explanation.

I have been a security professional most of my adult life but I was robbed in a hotel room while I slept, I am sure I wasn't gassed, I had drunk just a couple of glasses of wine, but that is the only defence I have. I had the mickey taken out of me for years by my team mates, how I wish the gas thing was around then, I am sure I would have clung to that to save my blushes.

Maybe the police do the same, Why didn't they wake? maybe they were gassed! Its an easy explanation, case closed, crime number issued.

The thing is, I suspect that we all sleep a little sounder than we think, even people like "Mr Security" who brags that he has never slept in years:Blush:. I have taken a rifle off of someone who was asleep and cuddling it, he was just tired, I didn't gas him, I have sometimes slept through the screams of my kids nightmares. Many of you, like me I am sure, can get into bed with our partner without waking them, or they can sneak out of bed with out waking us. Yes we might wake, but we do not start searching for reasons when we don't. The thief isn't getting in bed with us, Hopefully not anyway he is probably in the room for less that 45 seconds and taking the wallet from the bedside table and your camera from the dinette.

I think it is sad that people are put off travelling on the continent because of the fear of being gassed. Press and Police are guilty of hyping the stories further by suggesting gassing without a shred of evidence to support the theory other than "if they didn't wake they must of been gassed"

If any readers here are worried about this then please do buy a detector if it makes you feel better, but be warned, if you are parked in a public place, where there is a good chance of being robbed, the comfort you derive from your detector might make you sleep a little too soundly, and then who knows what might happen.

 

[Ralph-Dot]

This is possibly the worst subject for a thread on any forum ever, it crops up ever couple of week on forums all over the web, those who believe they have been gassed, will always believe it, those who believe it is impossible, will likewise always believe it is impossible.

I must remember to never open one open these threads again never mind read one and will therefore not read any more in this thread.

Ralph

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[olley]

Hi john I believe you believe you were gassed, as I would imagine we all do, but that doesn't mean you were, and it doesn't mean I am calling your veracity into question by doubting your story.

Olley

 

[johnsandywhite]

This is possibly the worst subject for a thread on any forum ever, it crops up ever couple of week on forums all over the web, those who believe they have been gassed, will always believe it, those who believe it is impossible, will likewise always believe it is impossible.

I must remember to never open one open these threads again never mind read one and will therefore not read any more in this thread.

Ralph

Different subjects crop up in the news and Forums every week or so:-

Diana murdered.
Madeline taken.
You can't eat this meat.
You must eat 5 portions of veg/fruit a day.
You can't drink too much.
This is bad for you.
This is good for you.
You must exercise.
Bullying at School/Internet etc.
Global warming.
Breast Cancer.
How do you charge a Battery?
What size of battery do I need?
What Solar panel will I need to run a ?????????

The list goes on.

 

[eddie]

Hi Ian, This is the problem you see, I have met hundreds of people who say that they have been gassed, but when I ask questions it just doesn't stack up.

Hi one of the big name footballers claimed just this 2-3 years ago, claimed it was introduced into the inlets of his hot air heating system.

The inlets of his heating system doesn't see the interior of the van! The air that goes into the inlet goes through the burner and out again, inside the burner chamber. The hot air is produced by sucking cold air from inside the van into the heat exchanger (wrapped around the burner chamber) and is pumped back into the van nice and warm. You could squirt gas into the inlet all day long and it would just ignite in the chamber.

Same as fridges, sealed from the outside to the interior, and again when wild camping the fridge would be on gas, with a pilot light, so squirting very explosive gas into the back of a fridge would be very dangerous...for the thief.

Add to the equation that the thieves would fall asleep once inside, every one's body mass differing, so needing more/less than each other to be in the same level of consciousness, and the fact that every single anaesthetist I have spoken to tells me that it is impossible.

Add this to the fact that I have recently slept through someone breaking into my house. Lyn and I fell asleep in our lounge last week, watching TV. One of my sons had gone to bed and put the security chain across the door, but not locked the door. A thief or group of thieves, opened the door, cut the chain partially, and then kicked the door repeatedly until the chain link stretched open.

Our very very large German Shepherd shut in the lounge with us, obviously was doing his nut looking at the marks on the door and the carpet trying to get out and at the thieves. Lyn and I? slept through the whole thing as did the boys upstairs (shame really as I have four sons, three in their early twenties, six foot plus and rugby players, and, at 47 years old I still am quite happy to have a go myself)

We had not been gassed, we had had a busy weekend, up late for a couple of nights on the trot and were all very tired. The end result was that we think the noise a 45 kilo German Shepherd trying to get through a door at you seemed to be enough to scare them away as nothing was taken and there was plenty of stuff lying around.

I know that this subject is very emotive, I have staff that work for me that are convinced that they have been gassed, I have a good friend who is convinced and got really stroppy one night when I questioned how it happened, yet a few nights later slept through the equivalent of a bomb going off about fifteen minutes after going to bed, and didn't believe what had happened the following morning as "he's a very light sleeper!

I suppose the best way is to treat it like religion. If you are prepared to believe something based on no common sense or hard proof, just the thought that there's no smoke without fire, that is ones prerogative. Equally if you refuse to believe anything unless you can touch it, feel it and play with it that is also your right. Who is to say who is right and who is wrong, or, who's life is richer for their belief.

I sell gas alarms, the ones we sell, also pick up propane and butane so are a sensible precaution in my opinion. If you talk to me I will advise you to buy one for the LPG protection, talk to a colleague that has been gassed (in his opinion) and he will tell you all about his families gas attack.

I have yet to see any hard proof that gas attacks exist, but if having a gas alarm that will detect a gas leak in the motorhome, also gives enough peace of mind, to allow some one to sleep well at night, should some one squirt gas in through the roof light Who am I to say their wrong.

 

[BJ]

[Edited by Jim: Your argument below is valid Jeff, your attack on the original poster is not and has been removed. Thanks]

Same old, same old...

My gut feeling is that there must be something in these stories, there has been too many reports of these gas attacks to just dismiss them out of hand.
On my local news they ran a story of a couple that were robbed in their van, and they were adamant that a gas was used, and stated that they had symtoms of nausea and lethargy the following morning. This was a middle class 50s couple that certainly didnt look the sort to lie or to be easily taken in. Again in this case the spanish police maintained it was likely to be a gas attack.
The reporter in the story alledged he knew of which cocktail of everyday household chemicals would produce such a senario, he said he couldnt reveal the products for fear of copycat crime.

 

[GeorgeTelford]

Hi Jeff

Thank you for the same tired old personal attack, ps I enjoyed a great stay at a really nice cl this weekend. :Blush:

The story you posted is the same unsubstantiated "story" that is always quoted instead of actual proof, not one anaesthetist as ever come forward and said gas attacks are possible many have come forward and said they are not, the whole point of this thread is that the Royal college have now posted an article on their website dismissing these claims of gas robberies as myth.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}