Are your LiFePO4 batteries ready for the falling temperatures

[pwilmo]

Hi all,
I too was worried about freezing temperature charging.

Because of the limited space in my battery compartment I had to fit a low profile Predator150Ah LifePo4.

It does not have internal heaters.

So I managed to fit self adhesive Facon heater pads with inbuilt 7-20C thermostat control with a manual on -off switch. These are powered by the
12v Predator LifePo itself.

To cut to the chase, I got caught out by a sharp frost -4, and hadn't turned the heaters on and the 240 Victron charger and Victron MPPT Solar were still connected.

So in a panic I phoned Vanbitz ..he assured me there would be no damage as most good quality LifePo's have an inbuilt protection/cut off.

So i looked at the Victron 240v charger and there was !warning..
"charger off" and click on warning gave this message
"the charger has been turned off due to low temperature ..."

So the battery itself had self protected it was not the Victron low temp settings, VanBitz knows his stuff !!.

Ha .. so the heater pads and wiring all the way from Amazon US, were an expense and time not needded ..ho hum.

 

[AdrianChen]

We’re even more confused now. We downloaded the Roamer app yesterday which was east and the leisure battery shows it to be 98% charged and the voltage 13.27V which is much more what we expected it to be. It’s switched off from charging as it’s so cold which is as it should be.

We have the BMS 700 Victron which after my panicked drive on friday read 100%. It settled to 97.8% yesterday so much the same as the Roamer app. I said I understood the up and down buttons so pressed them. The victron app says the leisure battery is 12.6V so completely different to what the Roamer app says. This is the day after driving. So now we’re really confused.

I am going to phone Dan at Consort tomorrow because the only way of checking the starter battery is with the multimeter or the moving intelligence Phantom app. We know he said he’d set something so that 1amp would go from the leisure battery to the starter battery to protect it. I didn’t think it would let it go as low as 12.15v before it dud that. ( on another thread someone thought theirs went down to 11.9 on the app before it suddenly went up to 12.3). I remember the moving intelligence app is inaccurate though, sometimes it matches and sometimes it does’t when Nick checks annoyingly.

I want to be sure I ask the right questions. Lenny HB I’ve highlighted you Lenny as I’m afraid you’re the one who knows how to make it basic enough for me to understand! We are going to Panama on 7th Feb for 5 weeks so won’t beable to access van and don't have anyone to do it. We could plug the van in on the drive but I’m not sure if that’s OK. Never worried about this before and certainly didn’t think we were going to have to with lithium!

We are happy to upgrade bits if that’s the best plan. We are in no way criticising Consort I hasten to add. We feel we got what we paid for. We were under great time pressure when we picked up the new van with Claire’s wedding and our big trip. We didn’t even have 4 weeks. We were lucky AshVanBitz squeezed us in for a strikeback growler.

Happy to oblige and not post a confusing response - but it might help Lenny HB if you were to post a pic of your shunts/bmv battery settings? and the page showing the 12.6v....

 

[carolyn]

Happy to oblige and not post a confusing response - but it might help Lenny HB if you were to post a pic of your shunts/bmv battery settings? and the page showing the 12.6v....

We have the BMV700 so unfortunately without a dongle you can’t connect to an app as we discovered in another thread on Friday. I will go out to the van though and list them . Thankyou .

 

[enark]

No problem with low temperatures for me….

 

[AdrianChen]

We have the BMV700 so unfortunately without a dongle you can’t connect to an app as we discovered in another thread on Friday. I will go out to the van though and list them . Thankyou .

Ah yes, that doesn't help with the shunt!

But the Victron app showing 12.6v may help...

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[carolyn]

We have the BMV700 so unfortunately without a dongle you can’t connect to an app as we discovered in another thread on Friday. I will go out to the van though and list them . Thankyou .

Ah ha, thank you, by sending me out to the van to take photos today now that things have warmed up the voltage on the Victron BMS is 13.27 and the Roamer is 13.28 so it must have just been the freezing cold yesterday when the Roamer battery turned itself off. Thankyou.

So we just have to get to the bottom of how Dan has set this 1A leisure battery to starter battery feed and whether or not if we hadn’t panicked when Nick measured it and it was 12.15v on Friday and I went for a drive it might have in fact been OK and it was just the cold confusing things.

Very grateful.

 

[ROADRUNNER700]

The rapid approach of freezing weather is a cause of concern for our LiFePO4 batteries.

They do not like being charged when temperatures are below freezing.

There are a number of ways to protect them - but have you thought about it for your particular situation?

hi thats very good point of advice just fit lifepo4 battery 2 wks a go £190.00 ebay i will take battery out to night till bad frost & snow clears up a bit camper van not like frost,ice,snow on road in winter snakes on back end carry on camping beep beep

 

[Raul]

Ah ha, thank you, by sending me out to the van to take photos today now that things have warmed up the voltage on the Victron BMS is 13.27 and the Roamer is 13.28 so it must have just been the freezing cold yesterday when the Roamer battery turned itself off. Thankyou.

So we just have to get to the bottom of how Dan has set this 1A leisure battery to starter battery feed and whether or not if we hadn’t panicked when Nick measured it and it was 12.15v on Friday and I went for a drive it might have in fact been OK and it was just the cold confusing things.

Very grateful.

I had intermittent voltage discrepancies in the past, solar was higher than the shunt. Went on victron life community and found the answer. Its the shunt positive lead that has a inline 100mA fuse, prone to corrosion. Victron upgraded this fuse to 1A to all newer shunts, but bmv700 was still old fuse. I cleaned the terminals and replaced the fuse. Shunt is spot on. Worth checking that fuse terminal for low voltages. It may be ok for a moment and then fluctuates.

 

[carolyn]

I had intermittent voltage discrepancies in the past, solar was higher than the shunt. Went on victron life community and found the answer. Its the shunt positive lead that has an inline 100mA fuse, prone to corrosion. Victron upgraded this fuse to 1A to all newer shunts, but bmv700 was still old fuse. I cleaned the terminals and replaced the fuse. Shunt is spot on. Worth checking that fuse terminal for low voltages. It may be ok for a moment and then fluctuates.

We are really dumb and totally impractical. Checking the voltage of the cab battery with a multimeter was very technical for us. I’m afraid the only fuses we would ever be able to change or find are the ones in the cupboard near the inverter and MPPT in that big white box that I think is the brains of the van.

We had battery masters on our previous two vans that worked and we never thought about them!

Thankyou though.

 

[Raul]

We are really dumb and totally impractical. Checking the voltage of the cab battery with a multimeter was very technical for us. I’m afraid the only fuses we would ever be able to change or find are the ones in the cupboard near the inverter and MPPT in that big white box that I think is the brains of the van.

We had battery masters on our previous two vans that worked and we never thought about them!

Thankyou though.

The shunt has a green socket where the power lead is pluged in (location A) marked on the photo. From that point trace the red wire, until you find the black in line fuse holder marked in the photo B. Unscrew the two half's, and the glass fuse is held tight by a spring inside. Clean the terminals, and the fuse ends with a bit of sand paper, then re install it.

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[StillGoing]

I just leave my lithium batteries to sort themselves out. The BMS will stop them charging if the temperature is too low. My solar, B2B and mains chargers both have temperature probes that will stop them charging when it gets too cold.

 

[rod_vw]

My Roamer has the same options in the app for switching off charge and discharge but the BMS will stop it charging when too cold anyway. It also has a button on the battery that shuts the battery down, which is what I used when I last left the van in storage. This has the advantage of turning off all the battery systems, including the bluetooth, which means virtually no loss of charge whilst laid up.

That's a later Roamer battery than mine, I've not got those luxuries.

 

[Lenny HB]

Happy to oblige and not post a confusing response - but it might help Lenny HB if you were to post a pic of your shunts/bmv battery settings? and the page showing the 12.6v....

Here are my shunt settings.

It's not easy to set up a shunt properly just on the display.

The shunt will not agree with the battery BMS if the van has not been used with the batteries being reulay charged to 100% as the battery BMS can't detect current draws of less than one amp.

According to my Shunt my batteries are at 56% but the batteries BMS says 75%. The Shunt at 56% is correct as the shunt can read the low current draws.

I will come back with more comments later, off to a dance now.

Edit:
Just noticed I did change my Peukert Exponent to 1.02.
Because I often use high current draws I might put it back to 1.05

 

[carolyn]

Here are my shunt settings.
View attachment 996996

It's not easy to set up a shunt properly just on the display.

The shunt will not agree with the battery BMS if the van has not been used with the batteries being reulay charged to 100% as the battery BMS can't detect current draws of less than one amp.

According to my Shunt my batteries are at 56% but the batteries BMS says 75%. The Shunt at 56% is correct as the shunt can read the low current draws.

I will come back with more comments later, off to a dance now.

Edit:
Just noticed I did change my Peukert Exponent to 1.02.
Because I often use high current draws I might put it back to 1.05

Have a lovely time dancing Lenny.

 

[ChrisL]

Here are my settings and what the Fogstar app says if anyone is interested or would like to comment, i'm on hookup at the moment but my discharges are not large, usually, 30 - 40 ahs over a 24hr period.

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[SteveE]

Hi AdrianChen thanks for the help. The app settings have both charging and discharging switched on, I’ve tried switching them off and back on again but no help.

Sorry to ask a stupid question but is the attached pic the battery charger? I’m not sure if this is the same thing as the B2B to charge from the engine/alternator?

I’ll check fuses next. But do you think it could be a fuse if the fridge and heating is still working ok from EHU?

 

[SteveE]

Just ran the engine and it’s charging the leisure battery ok… it’s getting 20 amps according to the Fogstar app. I’ve never checked this before so no idea if it’s good or bad. But if the leisure battery is accepting charge from the B2B then I think this narrows down issue to something else, maybe the charger?

 

[MichaelT]

Hi AdrianChen thanks for the help. The app settings have both charging and discharging switched on, I’ve tried switching them off and back on again but no help.

Sorry to ask a stupid question but is the attached pic the battery charger? I’m not sure if this is the same thing as the B2B to charge from the engine/alternator?

I’ll check fuses next. But do you think it could be a fuse if the fridge and heating is still working ok from EHU?



View attachment 997004

That's the B2B

 

[AdrianChen]

Hi AdrianChen thanks for the help. The app settings have both charging and discharging switched on, I’ve tried switching them off and back on again but no help.

Sorry to ask a stupid question but is the attached pic the battery charger? I’m not sure if this is the same thing as the B2B to charge from the engine/alternator?

I’ll check fuses next. But do you think it could be a fuse if the fridge and heating is still working ok from EHU?



View attachment 997004

Looks like the B2B to me.... Charger will have its own fuse to the battery

 

[oldiesontour]

Ours are not molly coddled either Mel, and are without heaters and Bluetooth.
The built in functional BMS and B2B. temperature sensor to the batteries, will dictate when charging takes effect, and at what amperage. All the Victron gear communicates with each other, and is set at a low of 5°C. Almost like "plug and play" if you like.
For us, it was pointless paying an extra £120 - £150 per battery, for technology we don't need.

Cheers,

Jock.

Wow £120 to £150 my heat pads were about £3 per battery and the BMS controls them along with all the other stuff (same BMS as fogstar use 200amp) was £60 ish

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[Lenny HB]

carolyn we really need to know what epuipment is fitted to give a full answer if you can find out tomorrow what the mains Charger is, the B2B and the solar. And what is doing the 1 amp charge to the starter battery.

If you have a Victron B2B you can see the starter battery voltage on that see below.

You have a Smart alternator they only keep the battery charged to 12.4/12.5v so if you go out for drive don't expect it to fully charge your starter battery.
With only 1 amp charge from the leisure battery it will take a couple of days or more to fully charge the starter battery.

With naff all solar I doubt if your 240ah battery will keep the starter battery charged up for 5 weeks..
Assuming when on EHU the starter battery gets charged s I would get the batteries fully charge before you go away. I would fit a timer so the mains to the van turns on for a few hours once a week.

 

[carolyn]

carolyn we really need to know what epuipment is fitted to give a full answer if you can find out tomorrow what the mains Charger is, the B2B and the solar. And what is doing the 1 amp charge to the starter battery.

If you have a Victron B2B you can see the starter battery voltage on that see below.
View attachment 997262

You have a Smart alternator they only keep the battery charged to 12.4/12.5v so if you go out for drive don't expect it to fully charge your starter battery.
With only 1 amp charge from the leisure battery it will take a couple of days or more to fully charge the starter battery.

With naff all solar I doubt if your 240ah battery will keep the starter battery charged up for 5 weeks..
Assuming when on EHU the starter battery gets charged s I would get the batteries fully charge before you go away. I would fit a timer so the mains to the van turns on for a few hours once a week.

We will definitely buy a timer . Do you have a particular one you recommend please?

 

[Lenny HB]

We will definitely buy a timer . Do you have a particular one you recommend please?

Not really they all seem reliable these days.

Edit:
If you get a smart one you can control it from wherever you are.

 

[treblid]

So i looked at the Victron 240v charger and there was !warning..
"charger off" and click on warning gave this message
"the charger has been turned off due to low temperature ..."

So the battery itself had self protected it was not the Victron low temp settings,

Your comments don't make sense?
The Victron settings had activated the protection because the chargers were off!
The battery BMS would have provided secondary back up protection but the primary protection was from the Victron chargers low temperature cutoff settings.

 

[Ronaldo]

We have an Eco worthy 100ah without any heater. In the French Alps at the moment so easy to bring the battery into the hab area . Looks crude but works well!

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[ChrisL]

For anyone with a Fogstar Drift, I asked the question at what temperature do the heaters start working? Dave at Fogstar replied this morning.

Hi Chris,

The heaters start working at 0 degrees, and will bring the batteries up to 20 I believe. The process is automated via the BMS, so there is nothing extra you have to do in this case.

I hope that helps if anyone had concerns.