are we being ripped off or what/

[talby]

I agree with what you say Snowbird.

I lived and worked in France for eight years and I spend a lot of time there in the summer touring or passing through. Love the country and for the most part love the people,but for all her faults it'still good old Albion for me.

 

[tonybrightspark]

Coming up the M11 the other night and running low on fuel I pulled into Birchwood Services and diesel was £1-25.9p a litre!!!
Decided to go into Bishop Stortford to fill up at £1-17.9p instead. Why do people pay these prices, I know they have overheads, but 8p a litre!!

tonybrightspark

 

[Bulletguy]

Hi Wintonian, You say "This is where you want to be for freedom".
Well I do know first hand of living in France,courtesy of 6 years 2Rep LE.
After discharge 3 years bar resterant owner in a small village called Sorede dep 66.
France was my adopted country and I have dual nationality,but for the life of me I dont understand how you think its cheaper to live there than the UK.

How do property prices and utility costs compare though?

Like Wintonian my next door neighbour retired to live in Brittany, had already bought a property there and put their house here on the market just as prices crashed. They sold at a drop of more than £40k. But they had worked out all their utility costs for the house in Brittany which were far less than the house they had here in the UK (small 3 bed bungalow with zero land).

Another example I could quote from experience is Switzerland.

Privately owned property there is very expensive, about 3 - 4 times the average UK property.......but, they are all high quality builds unlike the shoddy 'hen coops' people accept here in blighty. Rented accomodation therefore accounts for about 60 or 70%.

The big difference between the Swiss and ourselves comes when you look at standards of living and average income levels. Their standards are much much higher.....Swiss simply do not accept second best....in anything. Average incomes are around two and a half times higher than the equivalent brit income, yet costs in many things, apart from property, are not that dissimilar to the UK.

 

[Snowbird]

As I said before, its easy to pick out one thing thats cheaper,ie bread, council tax etc, you have to look at the broader picture.
Regarding the Swiss....I have my own views on them, and dont realy want to get drawn on that one.:Angry:

 

[kelvinjonaina]

Oils are expensive every where.Since the resources are less it costs more....

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[Wintonian]

I didn't mean to imply, Snowbird, that it was "cheaper to live in France" than in the UK. There can be no absolutes. Whether it is cheaper or not depends entirely on your lifestyle. Your department, Pyrenees Orientales (66), is probably a rather expensive place to live, being on the Med and close to the mountains and Spain.

In the UK, we lived in a house among many others on the outskirts of a large town (small City, guess which one!). Entertainment, apart from TV was the local pub and restaurants (occasionally) in town. Our small garden presented me with no desire to indulge in anything but the most basic of gardening since that was never my hobby. We were fortunate to sell our house in October 2007, before the market headed down, and converted our Sterling into Euro immediately, before Sterling began its long slide. (I have to say that I had been predicting all that for two years before finally deciding that the time was ripe.)

Now, however, having paid off our UK mortgage, we live in a very nice old small house in the country, with about one acre of land, mostly grass, with interesting flower beds and shrubberies.

We have plenty of space to park our vehicles, including the Hymer (the pic shows it standing on a part of the entrance to the drive), and when our motorcycling friends arrive they have plenty of room on hard standing. I have more garden tools than I have ever seen and can spend a happy couple of hours driving the ride-on tractor mower around making the grass look wonderful. We are only about ten minutes from a large town, where we can get our food and other treats.

We find that we do not spend as much on entertainments as before. We do not go to pubs/bars. We meet up with the motorcycle crowd for lunch once a month in the winter and go for rides with them in the Spring/Summer/Autumn. No drinking, and we usually take picnics.

The relaxed life-style here does not require the same amount of spending as the frenetic pace in the UK seems to dictate. No one here needs to keep up with Jones's! Driving a new car is rather "non-U" (and cars are much more expensive here, particularly used cars) and understatement is more accepted. Not having age-related number plates helps!

Many things are more expensive because of the very high level of social taxes imposed on employers. But the government does tend to spend the revenues on things that benefit the people. Excellent health care (you should see the huge brand new hospital and poly-clinic that has just been opened outside the nearby town. It puts the NHS to shame. And the car parking is FREE!), constant road-building and repair. The 450 metre lane from the road to our house was completely re-surfaced last year. Four days and a lot of heavy equipment employed to do it. And it only goes to our house, and two farm fields. And people take more care with the appearance of their environments. The local councils spend a lot of time maintaining verges, ditches and public gardens. It has to be paid for.

Garden equipment costs less, and there is a huge range to choose from. Local quarries will fill your half tonne trailer with gravel for about 15 Euro (£13).

A four course lunch at one of the many lunchtime restaurants will cost 11 Euro - including all the wine or cider you want.

Our property taxes (Council Tax) are a lot less than it was in the UK and we have a much bigger house. The local town hall is sparsely staffed so expenditure on overheads is kept low. And we can meet and speak to the Mayor on a regular basis. That is a real help.

I still say its a great place. And we didn't discover it until three years ago. We used to drive past it from the ferry port and head further south for our hols!

But it is a very different life-style and does not suit everyone. Sorry to have taken up so much space to say all that. It is Saturday morning and I am waiting to see what the weather is going to do before deciding where to go for the next couple of days or so! I hope it is OK in the UK. Boggy fields seem to be the problem for the tuggers!:Sad:

 

[Bulletguy]

Regarding the Swiss....I have my own views on them, and dont realy want to get drawn on that one.:Angry:

Why not? Having been married to a Swiss it could be fun to read your views!
Everyone is entitled to personal opinons

 

[Snowbird]

Why not? Having been married to a Swiss it could be fun to read your views!
Everyone is entitled to personal opinons

You say you WERE married to one....I rest my case.

 

[Bulletguy]

The relaxed life-style here does not require the same amount of spending as the frenetic pace in the UK seems to dictate. No one here needs to keep up with Jones's! Driving a new car is rather "non-U" (and cars are much more expensive here, particularly used cars) and understatement is more accepted. Not having age-related number plates helps!

You probably hit the nail on the head with that statement.

I've always noticed how 'frenchies' don't really give a fig about what make/model of car they drive and it's not unusual to see quite a few with big dents and dings in the body panels!

Most brits are obssessed with the model type of vehicle they own, and of course the registration is important too if it displays that it is only a year old! As example my car (to me) is simply a Ford Focus, but others are excited to see that it is the Ghia model. It's just a cheap 'shopping trolley' as far as i'm concerned!

You are right about relaxed lifestyle. The 'frenchies' certainly know how to do that!

 

[Bulletguy]

You say you WERE married to one....I rest my case.

Lol....she went back because she just couldn't adapt to living here. To quote her words which cut through me like a knife, "you are living in a third world country". Because i'd lived here all my life I couldn't see that, but after seeing how Swiss are used to living I could.

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[Snowbird]

Lol....she went back because she just couldn't adapt to living here. To quote her words which cut through me like a knife, "you are living in a third world country". Because i'd lived here all my life I couldn't see that, but after seeing how Swiss are used to living I could.

What the Swiss dont let on is that there economy is proped up by the untold billions of black money invested from all over the world,not to mention the trillions salted away by the Nazis during and after the war.
They still wont disclose any information even more than 60 years on.

 

[lebesset]

actually it's all horses for courses , isn't it

france is great for people who are old [ like me] and who can afford the private medical insurance or are so poor that the state will cover their medical bills [ less about £70 week for a single person last time I looked ] ; certain long term illnesses as well

it's a rotten country for the young unless they can get into the french equivalent of oxbridge ; otherwise it is boring and lousy job prospects ; I have helped a number of young people find a temporary job in the uk so that they can learn english ...most of them then won't come back so I am in bad humour with their parents ! of course unemployment for the under 24's is 20% !

the big difference is really in property , there is lot's of back of beyond and life is pretty cheap , but only if you have an income and don't need to work .... there isn't any !
if I wanted to live the way I lived in england it would be at least as expensive

 

[adenough]

My sister is a swiss citizen almost always lived there since she was 18. So of course are my nephews and nieces. She also has a property on mallorca, and as she is now retired has the option of living anywhere. She lives in Switzerland and intends to end her days there. She tried living back in the UK [surrey] for a couple of years having married a typical englishman [BA pilot, x RAF person]. She could not stand the climate and the way the country had declined. I think the last straw was when she was picking her son up and some drunken thug leaned into her car and threatened her with a foul mouthed diatribe. She pays less for excellent swiss private health care for the whole family than I used to pay in NI from my modest pay packet. I love the clean, tidy, respectable, law abiding side of Switzerland. The people can be taken as a bit standoffish until you get to know them. I spend time with my x swiss brother in law and his family and they and their friends are lovely. It is a beautiful place at the heart of europe but not ruled by it. Yes, property is expensive but there is not that much land to build on. Rents can be reasonable and food and fuel are not any more expensive than the UK. I would move there in a heartbeat. My OH would as well if she could take the kids! Looks like we are staying here.
Jim

 

[Bulletguy]

What the Swiss dont let on is that there economy is proped up by the untold billions of black money invested from all over the world,not to mention the trillions salted away by the Nazis during and after the war.
They still wont disclose any information even more than 60 years on.

Common knowledge....even amongst the Swiss themselves.

Britain is far from saintly like either if you trawl back through history! And of course, to present day, just how many mega wealthy 'non doms' enjoy tax free status here whilst the rest of us mortals have to pay.....for everything?

 

[adenough]

What the Swiss dont let on is that there economy is proped up by the untold billions of black money invested from all over the world,not to mention the trillions salted away by the Nazis during and after the war.

The fact is they don't go sending their young men and their taxpayers money to support crazy unwinnable wars. They don't have uncontrolled immigration. They don't send billions of franc's to the corrupt EU. This, plus much more, contributes to a stable economy and a good quality of life for the Swiss. They look after their own!

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[geoff1947]

What

If I recall I started this thread off mentioned fuel prices. !!!

 

[Bulletguy]

If I recall I started this thread off mentioned fuel prices. !!!

Yep......it's goin' up 'n up 'n up.

Good point made by someone in the thread a bit back. Government (note not just Labour) has lost billions in revenue from ex-smokers and folk who sit at home getting pissed on cheap supermarket tinnies instead of going down the local which they can't because it's closed down. If there is one still open and they like a fag with their beer, they have to stand outside, so end of beer sales.

So whack the lost duty on fuel and not only does Government rake it back in, but everyone pays whether they own a vehicle or not.

 

[Snowbird]

The fact is they don't go sending their young men and their taxpayers money to support crazy unwinnable wars. They don't have uncontrolled immigration. They don't send billions of franc's to the corrupt EU. This, plus much more, contributes to a stable economy and a good quality of life for the Swiss. They look after their own!

None of that is true.
For centuries the Swiss rented out its military to the highest bidder,with no thought to what was right or wrong,whoever ofered the most cash got the men.
Regarding uncontrolled imigration,they turned millions of Jews away seeking refuge from the nazis,only those with money were allowed in,but only long enough to deposit there savings,then handed over to the nazis.
They dont send billions of Francs to the EU,or for that matter anywhere else.
They keep the lot for themselves,the whole country is a huge washing machine for the worlds dirty money.
The only resone they have a stable economy is becouse over 5% of the population work in banking,cleaning up the worlds filth. YES over 5% of the population.

 

[tuscancouple]

Hello All. back on topic, we've just returned from a trip to Amsterdam. Petrol prices in the Netherlands was €1.58/litre and Belgium €1.48/litre. At our current exchange rate of £1 = €1.10 (ish) that's £1.43 and £1.34/litre, much more expensive than here.

If you take a more reasonable exchange rate, say 2008 at £1 = €1.35 that's then €1.17 and €1.09/litre. Slightly cheaper but very close to what we have to pay. There are lot's of variables in fuel prices but our government doesn't help by hiking up the duty!

However diesel was really cheap at €1.2/litre, £1.09!!!!!!!

How I wish my RV ran on diesel

Mick

 

[adenough]

[QUOTENone of that is true.QUOTE]
Erm.. But in your answer you said it is..

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[Bulletguy]

Hello All. back on topic, we've just returned from a trip to Amsterdam. Petrol prices in the Netherlands was €1.58/litre and Belgium €1.48/litre. At our current exchange rate of £1 = €1.10 (ish) that's £1.43 and £1.34/litre, much more expensive than here.

This site gives a pretty good idea of prices across europe;
http://www.drive-alive.co.uk/fuel_prices_europe.html

Todays current exchange rate is £1 to €1.13878
http://www.xe.com/ucc/convert.cgi?Amount=1&From=GBP&To=EUR

Netherlands has never really been cheap to tank up. Best place is Belgium which is only 'next door'!

 

[Bulletguy]

Regarding uncontrolled imigration,they turned millions of Jews away seeking refuge from the nazis,only those with money were allowed in,but only long enough to deposit there savings,then handed over to the nazis.

The first part of what you say is in part correct, the latter isn't. There is no evidence of Swiss handing Jews over to the Nazi's. Infact many Jewish people not only sought sanctuary there during the war, but also Jewish officials who worked in the Swiss Consulars Office, one of whom was instrumental in transmitting information very early on in the war to the US and UK. Information he had gained from contact with a very senior Nazi in Hitlers 'inner circle' who had told him what was happening.

However, there is undisputable and undeniable proof (documented evidence), that both the UK and USA largely ignored what was happening in the five extermination camps which were not to be confused with the countless concentration camps.

Whilst the hierarchy within the Vatican, including of course the Pope, knew full well very early on and chose to ignore, both Britain and the US were slow to respond and generally wasted a lot of time basically because they did not really believe what was being told to them.

Read "While Six Million Died" by Arthur D Morse.