Are today's shiny new motorhomes fit for purpose?

[LostInSpace]

I think not.

A shiny new Fiat based motorhome purchased new this year has been off the road for two months, unable to start the engine.

Why?

Because the start/stop system went start/stop start/STOP on lane two of a busy motorway - not to start again and has since been on the back of 4 recovery trucks. The tracker people keep ringing to ask why is it moving without the engine running?

In addition to that, before it STOPPED, the regenerative braking system was ridiculous - at best, only charging the starter battery to 12.2 volts. In some cases, the start/stop system was discharging the battery faster than the alternator could recharge it.

After being recovered from lane 2 of the motorway, the dealer told me that the engine battery was probably dead/dying when we bought it because it had been left uncharged in various places after the battery manufacturer made it. Quite probably for years before we got it.

The prospect of a low leisure battery being charged above 12.2 volts was non exsistant. (and that battery had probably suffered the same fate as the starter battery)

 

[PaulW2]

Can't see them redefining the class weights just to suit a technology otherwise they might as well scrap them now. The older generation can already drive up to 7500kg so why not just scrap the limits as they are now for the younger generation.

I think the talk (and something they touch on in one of their entries) is for a revision of European licence thresholds so that a 4,250 kg van can be driven. Specifically they say "Because all cars and vans are getting heavier, not just the electric ones, there’s talk of changing the rules and regulations in the European Union. They want to make it possible for people to drive a van weighing up to 4250kg with a regular driver’s license."

Different countries of course do it differently and the C1 grandfathering is a temporary UK solution. Irrespective of whether the UK chooses to extend such C1 entitlements - something they may struggle to justify when it isn't done under a 'grandfathering' banner - they may obviously need to mirror any 3,500 to 4,250 entitlement change. Or the next generation in the UK won't have the licences to drive the vans that will be built!

Or alternatively battery technology may improve to provide better energy density so that it can all work at 3,500 kg.

Some of what one reads (in my case as a lay person) about solid state batteries, for instance from Toyota, would suggest that there are potentially significant step changes that can be made. In range, weight, performance, a significant cost reduction, and much faster charging time.

 

[FrankNicklin]

If it only charges to 80% in 30 minutes, wont it need to recharge even more times?
I necked the truck I was in last week, 350litres in about 10 minutes and yes about 1000kms worth.

The other issue is where you will find the heavyweight chargers, that will be required? Numerous choices with Diesel.

I still think they're going the wrong way with banning fossil fuels for heavies, petrol hybrid is a much better solution

80% is always quoted and EV drivers are told not to exceed this on a regular basis or risk damage to the battery. Tests are conducted on 100% battery the stats are always la la land becuase they are never achievable.

 

[PaulW2]

When I was a medium sized fromage within a vast multinational FMCG manufacturing group we were required to produce 5 and 10 year plans which were sufficiently immediate to satisfy the banks, shareholders, legislators, politicians and campaign groups, but far enough off that we didn't have to do anything now or give precise details as to how the plans would be achieved.
We didn't give ourselves gas doing them and they were all froth because we knew very well that due to advances in technology, changes in the economic environment and the turnover of senior executive staff and politicians the aspirations would be overtaken, irrelevant, modified or dropped in the intervening years. It was dead easy as it was in the best financial and career interests of absolutely everyone to admire the Emperor's new clothes.

Of course. But here we have every vehicle manufacturer only focusing on and developing specific technologies, countries outlawing the old technologies and so on. Against this we may, for instance, have Sunakian froth about moving 2030 to 2035 (to the chagrin of vehicle manufacturers who won't change their investment plans to humour his politicking), but the bus doesn't seem to be stopping or changing direction very much.

Maybe in the case of lorries there is a VHS/Betamax discussion about Electric v hydrogen, but certainly my 3l diesel Land Rover will not be available in that future world. Nor, it would seem, will my 2.3l Fiat Ducato be. The e-Ducato, on the other hand, is already with us.

 

[Pausim]

Can't see them redefining the class weights just to suit a technology otherwise they might as well scrap them now. The older generation can already drive up to 7500kg so why not just scrap the limits as they are now for the younger generation.

They have already raised the 3500kg to 4250kg in respect of electric vans used for commercial purposes. They are also talking about extending higher limits to younger drivers who are currently limited to 3500kg, again for the benefits it would bring to commercial driving. I have seen nothing that suggests that older people who want to drive something bigger than 3500kg will be offered anything new. Indeed the official consultation mentioned concerns about the health risks associated with older drivers. I would like to be wrong but I am not holding my breath for something that will avoid the need for C1 medicals.

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[PaulW2]

They have already raised the 3500kg to 4250kg in respect of electric vans used for commercial purposes. They are also talking about extending higher limits to younger drivers who are currently limited to 3500kg, again for the benefits it would bring to commercial driving. I have seen nothing that suggests that older people who want to drive something bigger than 3500kg will be offered anything new. Indeed the official consultation mentioned concerns about the health risks associated with older drivers. I would like to be wrong but I am not holding my breath for something that will avoid the need for C1 medicals

I would suspect that you're right. I guess that it will take the form of either a general increase in B licence weight limits, or more probably an increase that applies only if one is driving a particular vehicle type (an electric van, say), or even only if one is driving a particular vehicle type for a specific purpose (an electric van in the course of one's work).

 

[Tony50]

Regarding fitness for purpose, the future is electric and almost here. I see that the Fiat e-Ducato - already for sale - has a payload of at least 690 kg (largest battery, largest body, 3,500 kg limit), but up to much more (c. 1,800 kg for 4,250 kg chassis, smallest battery and body).

I think as said before Electric is a stop gap, electric cars are not pollution free from raw materials to disposal, plus who's going to buy 3, or 5 year old electric car risking battery failure unless it's a leased by battery.
I think it's going to be Hydrogen or the Ammonia based fuel that has been developed, could even be refined/ non toxic petrol or diesel or something else. At the moment we pull up at the pumps and are away within minutes, not having anxiety hoping the charger is not faulty or there is a queue.

 

[Coolcats]

WATCH: How Formula 1 is striving to create a 100% sustainable fuel​

 

[nicholsong]

I would suspect that you're right. I guess that it will take the form of either a general increase in B licence weight limits, or more probably an increase that applies only if one is driving a particular vehicle type (an electric van, say), or even only if one is driving a particular vehicle type for a specific purpose (an electric van in the course of one's work).

I cannot envisage driving licence weight limits being increased across Europe any time soon.

 

[PaulW2]

I cannot envisage driving licence weight limits being increased across Europe any time soon.

Maybe, but there is also this

EU driving license revision could see category B licence weight limits increase to 4.25 tons

Read more at: https://trans.info/eu-revising-driving-license-regulations-321612

New regulations will allow drivers to drive heavier e-LCVs​

New regulations will allow drivers to drive heavier e-LCVs

European Parliament considering 4.25-tonne limit for B licence to help e-LCV adoption.

www.fleeteurope.com

And in the UK a higher limit already applies to electric vehicles?
"Currently, drivers that passed their test after 1997 are restricted to driving vehicles with a gross vehicle weight of no more than 3.5 tonnes. Anything heavier than 3.5 tonnes is classified as a heavy goods vehicle. The only exception is for electric vehicles – motorists with post-1997 tests can drive anything weighing up to 4.25 tonnes without taking an extra test, but only after they have taken five hours of additional training."

Government considers large van licence changes

The government is looking into whether it could, or should, change who can drive heavy goods vehicles

www.parkers.co.uk

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[PaulW2]

Seems the 5 hour training requirement may have been dropped?

Updated: Driver training dropped for 4.25 tonne electric van licensing

A series of changes have been announced for the operation of heavier zero-emission vans following a Government consultation.

www.fleetnews.co.uk

 

[JoshnPen]

We already have electric buses and delivery vans, I can't see moho's being that off.

 

[PaulW2]

So one could potentially drive say an e-Ducato based motorhome, on a B licence (or after losing C1), of up to 4.25 tons. With a post-conversion payload of conservatively maybe 800 kg (extrapolating from that Dutch couple's experience).

I can see this happening.

 

[Captain Yoghurtpot]

Yes we did with this one bought 2018




View attachment 833259

I still love your van.
Said it before.
Nice and compact and looks really nice.
Do you want my number for when you decide to part with it????

 

[dunnah01]

I'll stick with our 3.0l diesel and just modify it a bit to run in the ever increasing supply of old chip fat produced by Macdonalds whenever the politics ban black diesel

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[PaulW2]

I'll stick with our 3.0l diesel and just modify it a bit to run in the ever increasing supply of old chip fat produced by Macdonalds whenever the politics ban black diesel

I just got a French CritAir sticker. It's yellow and I feel virtuous

 

[Captain Yoghurtpot]

When I was a medium sized fromage within a vast multinational FMCG manufacturing group we were required to produce 5 and 10 year plans which were sufficiently immediate to satisfy the banks, shareholders, legislators, politicians and campaign groups, but far enough off that we didn't have to do anything now or give precise details as to how the plans would be achieved.
We didn't give ourselves gas doing them and they were all froth because we knew very well that due to advances in technology, changes in the economic environment, to legislation and the turnover of senior executive staff and politicians the aspirations would be overtaken, irrelevant, modified or dropped in the intervening years. It was dead easy as it was in the best financial and career interests of absolutely everyone to admire the Emperor's new clothes.

Absolutely!

 

[MGDavid]

But the air doesn't spin with it.

Oh it does - otherwise it would be mighty windy. Approx 1000 mph windy.

 

[CazPaul]

I still love your van.
Said it before.
Nice and compact and looks really nice.
Do you want my number for when you decide to part with it????

Maybe one day you never know which direction life could take you.

 

[FrankNicklin]

All these devices to combat emissions just add to very expensive repair bills should they go wrong. We are all experiencing huge increases in insurance premiums due to the increased cost of repairing or replacing safety devices such has frontal radar sensors, EV cars being written off because the integrity of the battery cannot be guaranteed after minor collisions. All this is doing is driving up costs.

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[gus-lopez]

I only assume I don't as it seems to charge the leisure battery at 14.2 volts all the time when the engine is running.

Mine charges the engine battery at that amount whilst running. has done since I bought it. split charge for the leisures plus solar as well.

How would such deletion be detected in order for prosecution to follow?

It can't be . same as catalytic converters without anything in them cannot be detected unless cut opn & the same applies to DPF's.
If no one is interested in illegal modifications to front chassis rails on cars so that they can be "towed" as a 'Toad' using "A frames",& so negating there Certificate of Conformity ,I cannot see why there should be any prosecutions for dpf/catalyst/ egr, /adblue deletes

Presumably it would, under normal circumstances, be quite difficult to detect.

Nigh on impossible.

not also result in insurance being invalidated?

insurance for 3rd party events can never be invalidated. You are only thinking of your own claim for your own vehicle.

So one could potentially drive say an e-Ducato based motorhome, on a B licence (or after losing C1), of up to 4.25 tons.

no as it applies to commercial use only .

 

[PaulW2]

no as it applies to commercial use only .

Is that right? I'm a bit late to the party but haven't found the source on this. The DVLA site just seems silent on the subject.

 

[MGDavid]

Until battery technology provides better solutions.

But it is the future. Motorhomes will need to be electric in the future, won’t they?

No; EV was only ever a stop-gap. Neither the generating capacity nor the infrastructure to achieve 90% EV is achievable or affordable by the ridiculous deadlines set by western governments. That's why they are back-tracking like crazy.

 

[Guigsy]

No; EV was only ever a stop-gap. Neither the generating capacity nor the infrastructure to achieve 90% EV is achievable or affordable by the ridiculous deadlines set by western governments. That's why they are back-tracking like crazy.

Really? A stop gap for what?

 

[PaulW2]

No; EV was only ever a stop-gap. Neither the generating capacity nor the infrastructure to achieve 90% EV is achievable or affordable by the ridiculous deadlines set by western governments. That's why they are back-tracking like crazy.

I think National Grid recently said they didn’t think there would be a capacity problem. I don’t know what the assumptions are but there must be some demand modelling to support this.

It would be a bit … unexpected to move away from established and functional technology and invest lock, stock and barrel in a new technology when this is only seen as a bridge to an undetermined future technology, wouldn’t it? Why do such a thing?

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[Coolcats]

Really? A stop gap for what?

Teleportation

 

[Coolcats]

I'll stick with our 3.0l diesel and just modify it a bit to run in the ever increasing supply of old chip fat produced by Macdonalds whenever the politics ban black diesel

Have you seen the colour of Diesel? it is not Black

 

[neilydun]

Have you seen the colour of Diesel? it is not Black

But sometimes its red

 

[jongood]

Have you seen the colour of Diesel? it is not Black

correct, its called white diesel in Road Transport, as opposed to Red.

 

[jongood]

Is that right? I'm a bit late to the party but haven't found the source on this. The DVLA site just seems silent on the subject.

There are moves to change it. The current regulation restricts it to commercial use and asfaik also puts a distance limit of some kind.


edit.

Found it

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5abc95f940f0b67d67479d50/cat-b-driving-licence-derog-gov-response.pdf

Note the date of the document - 2018 for a 5 year trial.
Page 10 mentions MH's

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[dunnah01]

Have you seen the colour of Diesel? it is not Black

depends which end of the engine you're looking at