Are today's shiny new motorhomes fit for purpose? (1 Viewer)

[LostInSpace]

I think not.

A shiny new Fiat based motorhome purchased new this year has been off the road for two months, unable to start the engine.

Why?

Because the start/stop system went start/stop start/STOP on lane two of a busy motorway - not to start again and has since been on the back of 4 recovery trucks. The tracker people keep ringing to ask why is it moving without the engine running?

In addition to that, before it STOPPED, the regenerative braking system was ridiculous - at best, only charging the starter battery to 12.2 volts. In some cases, the start/stop system was discharging the battery faster than the alternator could recharge it.

After being recovered from lane 2 of the motorway, the dealer told me that the engine battery was probably dead/dying when we bought it because it had been left uncharged in various places after the battery manufacturer made it. Quite probably for years before we got it.

The prospect of a low leisure battery being charged above 12.2 volts was non exsistant. (and that battery had probably suffered the same fate as the starter battery)

 

[chaser]

It's not that simple. The electrics are happy to leave the starter battery at 12.2v (under light load) when it has sufficient charge.

I did a 200 mile trip in my van recently, where the starter battery sat at 12.2v the whole journey - except when I was going downhill, or braking - when it briefly went to 14.7v. When I stopped, the battery rose to about 12.4v.

Despite the apparent lack of charging, My B2B was outputting 13.4v - so the leisure battery topped up its charge.

On a 30 mile trip this morning, it decided the starter battery needed a boost, so went straight to 14.8v.

All seems strange to those of us brought up on old fashioned 'always on' alternators - but seems to work fine.

How is it then that we have numerous threads on here that state a battery at 12.2 is flat or nearing its way out.

 

[Tigger-Tim]

How is it then that we have numerous threads on here that state a battery at 12.2 is flat or nearing its way out.

Voltage drop under load is normal. A crude analogy of battery voltage is a spring. When under load it compresses down and when the load is released, it sort of springs back, part way.

In a lead acid battery voltage is a reasonable indication for SOC but it needs to be no load, resting voltage.

You'll notice that I said my starter battery recovered to about 12.4v when the load was removed. That's about 75% charged.

The van uses a shunt to measure the current going into/out of the battery - this allows it to better mange what's happening.

 

[Coolcats]

I think not.

A shiny new Fiat based motorhome purchased new this year has been off the road for two months, unable to start the engine.

Why?

Because the start/stop system went start/stop start/STOP on lane two of a busy motorway - not to start again and has since been on the back of 4 recovery trucks. The tracker people keep ringing to ask why is it moving without the engine running?

In addition to that, before it STOPPED, the regenerative braking system was ridiculous - at best, only charging the starter battery to 12.2 volts. In some cases, the start/stop system was discharging the battery faster than the alternator could recharge it.

After being recovered from lane 2 of the motorway, the dealer told me that the engine battery was probably dead/dying when we bought it because it had been left uncharged in various places after the battery manufacturer made it. Quite probably for years before we got it.

The prospect of a low leisure battery being charged above 12.2 volts was non exsistant. (and that battery had probably suffered the same fate as the starter battery)

Did you select or do you have the Reinforced alternator 200 A which was an option and assume it still is, it gives piece of mind regarding batteries being charged

 

[chaser]

Voltage drop under load is normal. A crude analogy of battery voltage is a spring. When under load it compresses down and when the load is released, it sort of springs back, part way.

In a lead acid battery voltage is a reasonable indication for SOC but it needs to be no load, resting voltage.

You'll notice that I said my starter battery recovered to about 12.4v when the load was removed. That's about 75% charged.

The van uses a shunt to measure the current going into/out of the battery - this allows it to better mange what's happening.

I don't want to keep on about this as I am no expert but when your van is just going along the road, surely there is no load on it.

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[FrankNicklin]

I don't want to keep on about this as I am no expert but when your van is just going along the road, surely there is no load on it.

If you have your fridge on 12V that should be from the vehicle battery but on mine only if the engine is running otherwise it would kill the battery. So yes potentially load on the battery.

 

[Skez]

Some people with manual gearboxes have been taught to knock the vehicle into neutral when slowing down and not use engine braking. I think this comes from some advanced driving courses.

Absolutely NOT an advanced driving technique! Reduces vehicle control - and modern engines are not efficient when coasting.

 

[Lenny HB]

Have you actually checked and followed the wiring from the starter battery to see if a B2B is actually present as I thought all new Hymers have had them since 2019. It may have one and it's faulty but shouldn't affect the stop start

 

[gus-lopez]

It is not the "free" charging which is the problem. It is the lack of any meaningful charging for the rest of the time.

I suggest a scenario:-

Motorhome leaves EHU campsite with batteries fully charged (12.8 volts)
Cruises for 6 hours on open motorway with headlights on.
No need to brake (and negligible engine overun), so smart alternator sits at 12.2 volts.
Without effective charging, Engine battery is drained by headlights to 12.2 volts.
As the split charge relay is operated, does the leisure battery get drained as well?

Motorhome arrives at new destination without EHU and both batteries are at 12.2 volts.

This is why it was stated that for motorhome usage the "smart " alternator should be disconnected via ecu so it just acts as a normal alternator.If that cannot be done it should be replaced with a standard alternator with clutch overrun.

On mine the level sensor failed, so it needs a new tank £2200 and none available throughout Europe for the foreseeable future. In Scunthorpe there is a yard full of vehicles awaiting adblue parts.

Just tell them to link the adblue sensor out until such time they have a replacement .Either that or supply you with a replacement motrhome/vehicle or an amount of money for daily loss of use if it is under guarantee.

. Is this grey water or fresh water.

I am sure it is the adblue level sensor

 

[FrankNicklin]

I am sure it is the adblue level sensor

Thats even more bizarre. Cannot believe you need a new tank because the AdBlue sensor has failed. This is a base vehicle issue so not really a MH issue so cant believe they cannot just replace the sensor. What's the base vehicle.

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[StephandJohn]

Glad we're happy with our 2007 Swift Firebrand. Bought from new and never any problems. Modern cars etc are so complicated that problems are going to be more difficult to fix.
We do look at more modern vans but generally don't like the layout of fixtures and fittings so never been tempted.
We did have the problem of damp that occurred in these models at that time but Swift repaired it (at a cost of £4000 to them) as it was under warranty.
Oh dear. Hope I haven't jinxed myself now!

 

[funflair]

How is it then that we have numerous threads on here that state a battery at 12.2 is flat or nearing its way out.

My guess would be that the B2B is pulling the starter battery down to 12.2v so that it can supply a higher voltage to the Habitation batteries, the alternator will keep producing power as the starter battery is at 12.2v so therefore needs the power.

 

[chaser]

My guess would be that the B2B is pulling the starter battery down to 12.2v so that it can supply a higher voltage to the Habitation batteries, the alternator will keep producing power as the starter battery is at 12.2v so therefore needs the power.

It's all crazy stuff just to charge a battery that has been possible for 100 years.

 

[FrankNicklin]

This is why it was stated that for motorhome usage the "smart " alternator should be disconnected via ecu so it just acts as a normal alternator.If that cannot be done it should be replaced with a standard alternator with clutch overrun.

Just tell them to link the adblue sensor out until such time they have a replacement .Either that or supply you with a replacement motrhome/vehicle or an amount of money for daily loss of use if it is under guarantee.

I am sure it is the adblue level sensor

Having just read a bit more about this it appears to be an issue for vehicles doing low mileage, so exactly the profile for a majority of motorhomes. If the vehicle is sat for any length of time, the AdBlue crystallises and blocks the sensors/pipes thus rendering it irreparable hence the need to replace the whole tank. Also AdBlue turns to ammonia at 300degC so if the temperatures are not reaching full temperature for any length of time it can have a detrimental effect on the longevity of the AdBlue. Sounds like a recipe for disaster to park you new MH up for the winter with a tank full of AdBlue.

May be worth a look at this https://skinnytree.co.uk/product/wynns-crystal-clean-and-protect-125ml/

 

[chaser]

It just gets dafter all these modern gizmos supposed to be an improvement cause more problems than before and cost thousands to fix.

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[StephandJohn]

Something we've noticed is the gimmickry put on to new vans to try to convince you that you can't live without them.
We always thought when they started putting proper handles on the inside doors that they'd' start to rattle. Don't know if this has happened though. Didn't like the three burner hobs either.

 

[funflair]

It just gets dafter all these modern gizmos supposed to be an improvement cause more problems than before and cost thousands to fix.

But the air we breath is cleaner

 

[tonyidle]

It just gets dafter all these modern gizmos supposed to be an improvement cause more problems than before and cost thousands to fix.

A lot (most?) of the irritating tech on modern engines is there to achieve required emissions levels.

 

[chaser]

But the air we breath is cleaner

Just what has charging a battery got to do with the air?

 

[tonyidle]

Just what has charging a battery got to do with the air?

It reduces fuel consumption.

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[ctc]

New tank to repair a faulty sensor, that doesn't seem right surely. Tanks are't made with sensors already fitted therefore they can be removed. Is this grey water or fresh water.

No , the sensor is built in. Has to be a new tank.

 

[ctc]

This is why it was stated that for motorhome usage the "smart " alternator should be disconnected via ecu so it just acts as a normal alternator.If that cannot be done it should be replaced with a standard alternator with clutch overrun.

Just tell them to link the adblue sensor out until such time they have a replacement .Either that or supply you with a replacement motrhome/vehicle or an amount of money for daily loss of use if it is under guarantee.

I am sure it is the adblue level sensor

I suggested linking out the sensor to Mercedes but they wouldn't. Got a local man to completely solve the problem £200.

 

[chaser]

On our old ambulance there are two black boxes under the seat when the alternator kicks in a light comes on on them both and it charges all the batteries, when one is full that light switches off and it keeps charging the other one , when that is full they both switch off, then if one battery goes down it switched on again.
When we are stopped they both switch off and the batteries are separate and the solar comes on and charges them both again.
Don't know what sort of system you call this as it was already in when we bought it.
But it just simply works.

 

[Guigsy]

Glad we're happy with our 2007 Swift Firebrand. Bought from new and never any problems. Modern cars etc are so complicated that problems are going to be more difficult to fix.

In 2007, people were complaining about the complexity of EGR, drive by wire throttle and turbos getting too complicated.

Ten years before that they were complaining about the necessity of injection.

Ten years before that, electronic ignition.


... Repeat ad nauseam. And yet vehicles are getting more reliable.

 

[chaser]

Another example of stupidity as we see by a new thread just started is them rediculas fiat fuel filters , why in hell change something that has worked for donkeys years to something that leaks and costs a fortune when it goes wrong.

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[chaser]

In 2007, people were complaining about the complexity of EGR, drive by wire throttle and turbos getting too complicated.

Ten years before that they were complaining about the necessity of injection.

Ten years before that, electronic ignition.


... Repeat ad nauseam. And yet vehicles are getting more reliable.

More reliable till they go wrong then cost a fortune to put right where you could have done the old ones yourself.

 

[Lenny HB]

Another example of stupidity as we see by a new thread just started is them rediculas fiat fuel filters , why in hell change something that has worked for donkeys years to something that leaks and costs a fortune when it goes wrong.

Thats the old x250's, the leak is caused by incorrect assembly after changing the filter, it doesn't leak if assembled correctly.
The newer x290 has a metal fuel filter that doesn't have any problems.

 

[jongood]

People have been saying this for decades. Meanwhile cars are more reliable, lower maintenance and longer lasting than they've ever been.

I disagree, How long before Ducato parcel vans are being scrapped due to slave cylinders failing, likewise sprinters with nox sensors, i know of people who have scrapped otherwise servicable cars because of gearbox faults and plenty of people racking up big bills for electronic components failing.

 

[jongood]

Having just read a bit more about this it appears to be an issue for vehicles doing low mileage, so exactly the profile for a majority of motorhomes. If the vehicle is sat for any length of time, the AdBlue crystallises and blocks the sensors/pipes thus rendering it irreparable hence the need to replace the whole tank. Also AdBlue turns to ammonia at 300degC so if the temperatures are not reaching full temperature for any length of time it can have a detrimental effect on the longevity of the AdBlue. Sounds like a recipe for disaster to park you new MH up for the winter with a tank full of AdBlue.

May be worth a look at this https://skinnytree.co.uk/product/wynns-crystal-clean-and-protect-125ml/

That even happens with trucks.

 

[nicholsong]

I am just happy that I have got a 2.8jtd engine with a standard alternator, B2B and two lead/acid batteries.

We have just done nearly 5.000km Poland-Greece and back and no problems with electrics.

No desire to go into emissions zones. Happy Bunny.

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[Spriddler]

Another example of stupidity as we see by a new thread just started is them rediculas fiat fuel filters , why in hell change something that has worked for donkeys years to something that leaks and costs a fortune when it goes wrong.

Accountants, dear boy. Accountants.