Are the days of the motorhome numbered?

[LithiumConvert]

I suggest, Yes.

Why? Because the emissions regulations (among others), mean that the manufacturers are finding it increasinly difficult to build a motorhome that complies wth the regulations and is fit for the purpose that we are looking for.

 

[Derbyshire wanderer]

Totally agree we’re not ready for everyone to own an Ev …and probably better to lease right this moment

But these aren’t reasons why EV’s will not take over from ICE - which was the original challenge.
They will be and are being solved. The depreciation is inevitable early on as technology improves so rapidly.

If you have home charging, the infrastructure is there already. Charge speeds are not an issue for Tesla owners and won’t be for others as other manufacturers catch up. Batteries can be reused for solar storage and/or mostly recycled wasting very little of the original battery - unlike the average ICE car that burns 17,000 litres of fuel during its life and absolutely none of it is recycled.

I agree with most of this except that home charging is fine for the current demand but it certainly is not in the majority of household supplies if the majority of households owned EV unless using the slowest 13a supply. Most homes have a 60a incoming supply and some up to 100a. Not going to run any superchargers on those numbers and these are shared supplies with other properties.
The reuse of older batteries for solar storage although does work perfectly, it is another expensive investment for it (and the solar) to be installed and the downside is that many properties are not really suitable for solar. The EV owners are not going to see much financial benefit if any.

 

[Ernesto]

It’s strange how this issue of whether an EV battery is recyclable or not keeps coming up. About 30kg of an EV battery cannot be recycled …out of a battery pack that can weigh hundreds of Kg

A typical fossil fuel car burns it’s way through a pile of oil barrels of fuel 25 storeys high, pollutes the air, and not a drop is recycled ….and no one mentions it as a drawback ?

We don’t need a supercharging at home. Most people sleep 8 hours a day and that’s more than enough at 25A to recharge the car.

I totally agree - the electrical network needs massive investment. But we’ve got 12 years until the hybrids were due to be banned and the pace of technology changes will make this happen

 

[Ava the Adria]

It takes around 4.5kWh of electric to make a gallon of petrol. The average EV can travel 20 miles on that leccy. So instead of making petrol, charge a BEV and save electricity! Just imagine how much electricity could be saved if we didn’t make petrol!

Busting the myths and misconceptions about electric vehicles | National Grid Group

Can the electricity grid cope with more EVs? And what really happens to old EV batteries? Find out the answer to these and many more questions about electric vehicles in our comprehensive EV myth-buster.

www.nationalgrid.com

 

[Ava the Adria]

I agree with most of this except that home charging is fine for the current demand but it certainly is not in the majority of household supplies if the majority of households owned EV unless using the slowest 13a supply. Most homes have a 60a incoming supply and some up to 100a. Not going to run any superchargers on those numbers and these are shared supplies with other properties.
The reuse of older batteries for solar storage although does work perfectly, it is another expensive investment for it (and the solar) to be installed and the downside is that many properties are not really suitable for solar. The EV owners are not going to see much financial benefit if any.

Times have moved on, Intelligent demand is replacing the old Demand Side Response developed in the “old” fossil fuel grid and DSR is now outdated.

It’s a long read, but the post on the below link explains how flexibility and smart tariffs will see us through.

Moving from ‘Demand Side Response’ to ‘Intelligent Demand’

For the last sixty years, efforts to influence energy demand have been defined by (and limited to) the concept of ‘Demand side response’ (DSR). Now we have the opportunity to move to 'Intelligent Demand' - which could solve a whole host of energy issues.

octopus.energy

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[Derbyshire wanderer]

Times have moved on, Intelligent demand is replacing the old Demand Side Response developed in the “old” fossil fuel grid and DSR is now outdated.

It’s a long read, but the post on the below link explains how flexibility and smart tariffs will see us through.

Moving from ‘Demand Side Response’ to ‘Intelligent Demand’

For the last sixty years, efforts to influence energy demand have been defined by (and limited to) the concept of ‘Demand side response’ (DSR). Now we have the opportunity to move to 'Intelligent Demand' - which could solve a whole host of energy issues.

octopus.energy

You may of misunderstood me, the street cables were installed for much less demand and therefore can struggle with high demand from multiple properties.
The article you refer to is about generating electricity and we know from historical data that we have been running near the limit at times for years.
There are already long delays with installing new street charging stations so any upgrades for domestic use is not feasible.

 

[Bubba]

They will ban motorhome but not private aeroplanes.

 

[starquake]

Yes those are 100 mile delivery vans.

Yeah dpd have 100 mile variants too.

The shortcomings are to do with the lack of infrastructure to charge huge numbers of them and the time it takes. The old batteries are a challenge to say the least to dispose and recover the elements for recyclin.
Added to the horrendous depreciation the running costs are no where near as low as claimed.

it may surprise you to know that octopus get paid by the grid to smart charge and balance overnight load - it’s why their EV only intelligent tariff is such good value.

There’s no issue with installing EV chargers the issue is simply demand. The guy that installed my charger ( brother of a school friend) is booked for next 6 months with 2-3 installs a day and is now hiring 2 additional staff to cope.

The whole grid will die is nonsense - an electric shower uses 1.5 times the load an EV puts on when charging and a smart charger can lower load based on what car neeeds. You can’t tell me a lot of households don’t all have showers 7-8am before work and the grid dies! That’s all FUD as the facts are everyone in UK could have an EV and demand on grid would still be less than the 2010 demand which has dropped due to efficiency savings.

 

[Rob Turner]

Don't worry we are all doomed

Don’t Panic!

 

[Captain Birdseye]

Then vans in general and long distance trucks are doomed also.

Some trucks are already running on hydrogen, which is the long term solution. Look at the JCB videos on YouTube.

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[Petroleumblownapart]

A pair of shafts and a good hoss will soon get round this.
But then you will get fined for your hoss shitting in the street.

Only in ULEZ ... Ultra Low Excrement Zones though! We'll no doubt have giant poo bags by then with a Funsters logo.

 

[Rob Turner]

I agree with most of this except that home charging is fine for the current demand but it certainly is not in the majority of household supplies if the majority of households owned EV unless using the slowest 13a supply. Most homes have a 60a incoming supply and some up to 100a. Not going to run any superchargers on those numbers and these are shared supplies with other properties.
The reuse of older batteries for solar storage although does work perfectly, it is another expensive investment for it (and the solar) to be installed and the downside is that many properties are not really suitable for solar. The EV owners are not going to see much financial benefit if any.

Most homes already have a 100a supply with either a 60a or 80a fuse. The DNOs are currently unlooping properties so they get their own dedicated supply, fused at the guaranteed standard of 80a.

 

[Rob Turner]

It’s strange how this issue of whether an EV battery is recyclable or not keeps coming up. About 30kg of an EV battery cannot be recycled …out of a battery pack that can weigh hundreds of Kg

A typical fossil fuel car burns it’s way through a pile of oil barrels of fuel 25 storeys high, pollutes the air, and not a drop is recycled ….and no one mentions it as a drawback ?

We don’t need a supercharging at home. Most people sleep 8 hours a day and that’s more than enough at 25A to recharge the car.

I totally agree - the electrical network needs massive investment. But we’ve got 12 years until the hybrids were due to be banned and the pace of technology changes will make this happen

The network has just had a massive investment in the last Ofgem pay review which started in April and lasts for 5 years.
In this time the DNOs are going to unloop the majority of customers and install 80a fuses to allow for EV charging and also Heat Pumps if required.

 

[Tigger-Tim]

Hybrid does not work in the way you suggest, I am sure that they just harvest braking energy, are you sure they charge the battery from the running engine?

Mine does. On a long journey the engine runs about 50% of the time.

Average from new is 50mpg. 2.0 litre petrol estate car.

 

[Ernesto]

This is why I contribute to these threads. EV’s aren’t perfect for everyone yet but for many
they are greener and cheaper and the move to renewables will help everyone

There are so many BS myths peddled by the vested interests of the oil industry that are rehashed by the media, and then repeated over and over as so called facts.

Just wish people would do their own research, and not take rags like the daily mail as their guide.

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[Mzracer]

Yeah dpd have 100 mile variants too.

it may surprise you to know that octopus get paid by the grid to smart charge and balance overnight load - it’s why their EV only intelligent tariff is such good value.

There’s no issue with installing EV chargers the issue is simply demand. The guy that installed my charger ( brother of a school friend) is booked for next 6 months with 2-3 installs a day and is now hiring 2 additional staff to cope.

The whole grid will die is nonsense - an electric shower uses 1.5 times the load an EV puts on when charging and a smart charger can lower load based on what car neeeds. You can’t tell me a lot of households don’t all have showers 7-8am before work and the grid dies! That’s all FUD as the facts are everyone in UK could have an EV and demand on grid would still be less than the 2010 demand which has dropped due to efficiency savings.

I think you might be a little economical with your shower to EV analogy, the big thing with the EV is that at the charge power consumption that is 2/3rd's that of an electric shower then the EV will need to be on charge for a long time in comparison with a shower.

Secondly regarding showers, they all seem to be run from the central heating hot water system. I don't remember the last time that I saw an electric shower.

I am not a big fan of the shift to EV but I think that the supply infrastructure will just about keep up with a changing demand and usage profile, but I am still failing to see how someone living at the top of a high rise block of flats is going to easily charge their EV as I doubt that every single parking space will have a charge point.

 

[Mzracer]

Mine does. On a long journey the engine runs about 50% of the time.

Average from new is 50mpg. 2.0 litre petrol estate car.

What hybrid car do you have?

 

[Ernesto]

I think you might be a little economical with your shower to EV analogy, the big thing with the EV is that at the charge power consumption that is 2/3rd's that of an electric shower then the EV will need to be on charge for a long time in comparison with a shower.

Secondly regarding showers, they all seem to be run from the central heating hot water system. I don't remember the last time that I saw an electric shower.

I am not a big fan of the shift to EV but I think that the supply infrastructure will just about keep up with a changing demand and usage profile, but I am still failing to see how someone living at the top of a high rise block of flats is going to easily charge their EV as I doubt that every single parking space will have a charge point.

Isn’t the point that electrical supplies are designed around peak loads. And the UK peak load was back in 2002 according to National Grid. Our peak requirements have been falling ever since.
This from national grid website

2. Do the electricity grid's wires have enough capacity for charging EVs?​

The simple answer is yes. The highest peak electricity demand in the UK in recent years was 62GW in 2002. Since then, the nation’s peak demand has fallen by roughly 16% due to improvements in energy efficiency.

Even if we all switched to EVs overnight, we estimate demand would only increase by around 10%. So we’d still be using less power as a nation than we did in 2002, and this is well within the range the grid can capably handle



In a world of solid state batteries and faster charging times, people in high rises won’t need a charging space. Filling stations may be converted to high speed charging and further on the concept of Transport as a Service will also be here, freeing up many lower income households from the burden of having to finance a vehicle, if they choose so.

Technology is racing ahead at breakneck speed - it doesn’t stand still.

 

[Ernesto]

What hybrid car do you have?

I think he’s referring to “self charging hybrids” ….something like these ….


5 best self-charging hybrid cars to buy in 2023

• Toyota Yaris.
• Honda Civic.
• Kia Sportage 1.6 T-GDi hybrid.
• Ford Kuga 2.5 FHEV.
• Kia Sorento 1.6 T-GDi Hybrid.

30 Dec 2022

 

[Gaston aires]

A pair of shafts and a good hoss will soon get round this.
But then you will get fined for your hoss shitting in the street.

It’s good for the garden as my dad used to say when the milk was horse drawn, just like Ernie.

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[Guigsy]

Secondly regarding showers, they all seem to be run from the central heating hot water system. I don't remember the last time that I saw an electric shower.

Most flats can't use gas. They have electric heating. Some have water tanks with immersion heaters for hot water. Many use an electric shower.

 

[Barclaybasher]

I am not a big fan of the shift to EV but I think that the supply infrastructure will just about keep up with a changing demand and usage profile, but I am still failing to see how someone living at the top of a high rise block of flats is going to easily charge their EV as I doubt that every single parking space will have a charge point.

20 years ago flats had to be built with 1 parking space per flat + 1 for visitors

Today flats are in some cases are allowed none, just a few spaces for delivery and service vehicles

- result - flat residents park in the streets around, blocking the street's residents

 

[Mzracer]

Isn’t the point that electrical supplies are designed around peak loads. And the UK peak load was back in 2002 according to National Grid. Our peak requirements have been falling ever since.
This from national grid website

2. Do the electricity grid's wires have enough capacity for charging EVs?​

The simple answer is yes. The highest peak electricity demand in the UK in recent years was 62GW in 2002. Since then, the nation’s peak demand has fallen by roughly 16% due to improvements in energy efficiency.

Even if we all switched to EVs overnight, we estimate demand would only increase by around 10%. So we’d still be using less power as a nation than we did in 2002, and this is well within the range the grid can capably handle



In a world of solid state batteries and faster charging times, people in high rises won’t need a charging space. Filling stations may be converted to high speed charging and further on the concept of Transport as a Service will also be here, freeing up many lower income households from the burden of having to finance a vehicle, if they choose so.

Technology is racing ahead at breakneck speed - it doesn’t stand still.

Yes I understand and your figures on reduced consumption over the years are correct but has the generating capacity from the mid 00's been retained or is the grid capacity being held up by the French power supply which is in place, of course pretty well all that French energy comes from their nuclear power stations.

If I had to go to EV, it would be no problem, I would begrudgingly find the money and I have plenty of off road parking to carry out charging on, it is the less fortunate that I worry about.

Like I said from a financial point of view it does not stack up to change a junker diesel Golf for a second hand Leaf, I was prepared to do it if there was a financial benefit but is just not there. Electricity is not cheap and I doubt that it ever will be again.

 

[AndyPK]

In a world of solid state batteries and faster charging times, people in high rises won’t need a charging space. Filling stations may be converted to high speed charging and further on the concept of Transport as a Service will also be here, freeing up many lower income households from the burden of having to finance a vehicle, if they choose so.

Technology is racing ahead at breakneck speed - it doesn’t stand still.

Ah, yes, the ‘stop the plebs from having their own transport’ concept………..

 

[Mzracer]

20 years ago flats had to be built with 1 parking space per flat + 1 for visitors

Today flats are in some cases are allowed none, just a few spaces for delivery and service vehicles

- result - flat residents park in the streets around, blocking the street's residents

My point exactly.

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[Mzracer]

Ah, yes, the ‘stop the plebs from having their own transport’ concept………..

Yes not going to need your own transport in the 15 minute city.

 

[AndyPK]

Yes not going to be allowed your own transport in the 15 minute city.

Amended your comment for you, Mzracer …..!

 

[Barclaybasher]

Yes not going to need your own transport in the 15 minute city.

Would you rather live in a flat in the city?..........families with children?

 

[Peregrinator]

The market will adapt.

The CC (Caravan Club, now the Caravan & Motorhome Club) was set up at the turn of the last century.
All caravans at the time were horse drawn, what we would today call a Gypsy Waggon.

This came under the hammer in a

auction a while ago,

Ford Model T chassis built in 1914

 

[Mzracer]

Would you rather live in a flat in the city?..........families with children?

No my near family managed to get out of the city's about 60 years ago, best thing that we did.

Everything was miles better living away from the city but still within reach of the facilities offered by a big city.

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[Guigsy]

20 years ago flats had to be built with 1 parking space per flat + 1 for visitors

Today flats are in some cases are allowed none, just a few spaces for delivery and service vehicles

- result - flat residents park in the streets around, blocking the street's residents

I live in Birmingham city centre. I previously lived in a tall block of 180 flats with 15 parking spaces. All the on street parking was pay and display. Most people in the building didn't have a car.

I now live in a similar sized development that's a less high-rise. I've got a house, but most of it is flats. Lots more parking under the flats. The majority of the car park is empty. My motorhome brings down the tone!

Contrary to what's been programmed into Pele for the past 50 years, a car is not essential.