Are so called wild campers spoiling it for everyone ?

[buttons]

I'm in the wilding camp, you can't beat it, though its rare if we stay in the same place more than two or three consecutive nights, although we have.

Follow a few simple rules and you can't really go wrong Do I wild 'park'. yes all the time, I sneak nights, which are almost always breaks in journeys, all over the place at home and abroad; Supermarket carparks, beach carparks, trading estates, forest carparks. Would I spend weeks on end in a dusty car park because it's free? No chance.

Are the wild places in Europe overcrowded? absolutley not, believe me, there are literally millions of places in Europe that offer a wonderful night or two's pitching that are yet to be discovered by anyone in a motorhome, let alone be over used. You just have to get off the beaten track and find them. For us that is 80% of the fun

Something for shifty's archive......I admit to doing the same.... my own preference on route is the late arrivals car park of many camp sites. If you are really cheeky then you have access to a shower ready for an early start towards your destination.......

 

[Mastercamper]

Just watched this video posted on a Spanish site complaining about "foreign" wild campers in Tavernes:

Tavernes - YouTube

Wild camping, Freecamping, Freeloading?

I think we ought to coin a new term---- How about :-

Ghetto parking or Slumming it.

 

[JJ]

Why can't we accept that we are all different and choose to live our lives in different ways?

I wouldn't want to stay for very long parked next to lots of other vans no matter where those vans are parked or for how long or at what price... but some people do... so I just let them...


JJ :Cool:

 

[GJH]

According to the SCA vehicles are specifically excluded from "right to roam" legislation so you can not legally wild camp in your vehicle. Having said that, if you are discrete you may be left alone for a single night or even two. Local police are very helpful about giving you a heads up about places you can stay if you go and ask, although with cost cutting measures many local police stations have been, or are about to be, closed.

That's right. This refers to legitimate Access Takers which includes walkers (or anyone on foot), cyclists, horse riders and canoeists. It specifically excludes anyone in a vehicle. Motorhome "wild camping" is a misnomer - it is really wild parking.

However, the UK is very blinkered when it comes to motor-homers compared with the continent and France in particular, where many local authorities seem to welcome motorhomes and provide facilities in Aires recognising that doing so brings money into the area.

Wild parking is tolerated in many places but when it's abused by people staying beyond a couple of nights then the locals begin to object.

Well, how would we react if dozens of vans turned up at a local beauty spot and set up a semi-permanent camp?

Absolutely. I meant to finish my last post with This Reference and This Reference but I was in a bit of a rush as we were going out

 

[Langtoftlad]

As someone who wants to do the "right" thing...
I see references to "most farmers will allow you to overnight if you ask" etc etc - my question is - how do you find these farmers?
I mean, if you find a beautiful spot in the middle of nowhere, how do you know whose land it is, and where the landowner's house might be ???
Or do you just drive up to a farmyard & ask if you can park up overnight nearby?

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[Mastercamper]

quote=Langtoftlad;948907]As someone who wants to do the "right" thing...
I see references to "most farmers will allow you to overnight if you ask" etc etc - my question is - how do you find these farmers?
I mean, if you find a beautiful spot in the middle of nowhere, how do you know whose land it is, and where the landowner's house might be ???
Or do you just drive up to a farmyard & ask if you can park up overnight nearby?[/quote]


Simple answer...Yes.

I have never been refused, when asking courteously, in fact I have been offered a better spot than I asked for on several occasions.
Many isolated farmers are delighted to have a [STRIKE]stranger[/STRIKE]/new person to talk to, even if only briefly.
You never know, you might make a new lifelong friend. You will certainly help to put campervanners/motorhomers in a favourable light by asking.

:thumb::thumb::thumb:

 

[John & Joan]

Ghetto parking or Slumming it.

That describes the campsites we used in Portugal last year and some so called Aires in Spain.

Caravan sites with caravans tightly packed with no free space in between them. Caravans with heavy duty awnings plus canopy extensions so the whole pitch is covered. No 3m or 6m gap there.
We were expected to park the motorhome three to a conventional caravan pitch with shared hook-up and pay for the privilege.

We stayed on an Aire at Malaga (listed in the book) that was simply a storage compound. There was no drinking water available, as water was brought in (in large (1000 litre) clear plastic containers) and pumped to supply the porta-cabin toilet and showers and to flush the toilet dump.

Two examples of why we wild park.

We have wild parked most of the time on our own, as we don't frequent the honey pot locations, but try to see the real country we are travelling through. One or two nights in any one location but we may return later to do the same again. We try to avoid parking during the day where we intend to overnight if we can.

There are plenty of spaces where it is possible and legal to park overnight in Spain and Portugal. Occupation of a correctly parked vehicle is not an issue in a car park or side road over here, unlike the UK.


[FONT=Courier New, monospace][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]INSTRUCTION 08/V-74 FROM THE SPANISH DIRECTOR GENERAL OF TRAFFIC RELATIVE TO MOTORHOMES [/FONT][/FONT]


[FONT=Courier New, monospace][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Motorhome users are permitted to carry out manoeuvres of stopping and parking in the same conditions and with the same limitations as any other vehicle. [/FONT][/FONT]


[FONT=Courier New, monospace][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The General Traffic Regulations do not establish any other conditions for stopping or parking a vehicle, so, therefore, this General Directorate of Traffic believes that while any vehicle is parked properly, without exceeding markings on the delimitation of the parking space, nor exceeds the time permitted, if any, it is irrelevant whether the occupants are inside the vehicle, and the motorhome is no exception, being sufficient that the activity in the interior does not transcend to the exterior by the setting up of elements which surpass the perimeter of the vehicle such as stalls, awnings, levelling devices, stabilizing devices, etc. [/FONT][/FONT]

 

[UK Pete]

Oh well it seems like we all have an opinion on this wiid camping , there are the out and out haters labeling everyone freeloading scumbags, then there are the ones who aprove of 1 or 2 night solo wilding keeping it descreet but detest the large gatherings of people as shown in the video, then you have the will camp anywhere thats possible as long as its free, as i am yet to do any wildcamping i will put myself in the 1 or 2 night solo wilding keeping it descreet catagory, at the end of this year i will see if i am still of the same mind
pete

 

[cruiser]

I am with you pete.good luck .:thumb:

 

[Kizmax]

Ireland wild camping

I am with you pete.good luck .:thumb:

Living in Ireland and wild camping is a different kettle of fish as we have very little in the way of official sites that open throughout the year so when we reach a nice spot and feel like spending the night we do , as long as it's not encroaching on others too much and leave it as we found .it what we have found is that all the local authorities have signs up saying no overnight parking or camping
There is only one reason for this and that is Itinerants ,travellers , itinerants , gippos . The other problem is the Itinerants have now taken to buying motorhomes at .least they have over here . ,
Most hotorhomers respect and appreciate the countryside and respect the locals .
Long live wild camping :thumb:

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[scotjimland]

..........Itinerants have now taken to buying motorhomes..........

indeed they have, and for a very good reason, .........

it means they can go on their hols, [STRIKE]freeload[/STRIKE] wild camp and blend in with the other[STRIKE] freeloaders[/STRIKE] wild campers in Spain and Portugal ..

not daft are they

 

[Snowbird]

indeed they have, and for a very good reason, .........

it means they can go on their hols, [STRIKE]freeload[/STRIKE] wild camp and blend in with the other[STRIKE] freeloaders[/STRIKE] wild campers in Spain and Portugal ..

not daft are they

Indeed they/we have Jim. I mean some did stand out like a sore thumb. The pocket watch and guard still gives the game away though .

 

[Alan]

Took from another MH site

twi
Home » News » Silves Mayor pledges to create a motorhome park after police clear vehicles from riverside
Silves Mayor pledges to create a motorhome park after police clear vehicles from riverside
IN NEWS · 27-02-2014 15:02:00 · 0 COMMENTS
A team of GNR environmental protection officers have cleared hundreds of motorhomers from the Silves riverside area in a move that has been slammed by local Mayor Rosa Palma, but applauded by the motorhomers’ critics.

Silves Mayor pledges to create a motorhome park after police clear vehicles from riverside
A glance at The Portugal News’ letters pages in recent weeks will prove just how divisive the subject of ‘wild-camping’ motor-homing has become.
Some lavish them with praise for helping to buoy an otherwise largely empty Algarve during low-season, while others deem them “freeloaders”.
Last Friday, 21 February, the GNR switched the heat up on that debate after a team of officers cleared the Silves riverside area of the many dozens if not hundreds of caravans that flock there every winter.
A GNR spokesperson told The Portugal News that the action was carried out after “various complaints were made by local residents”, some of whom said “the area was being used like a public bathroom.”
Furthermore, the spokesperson stressed that camping is only legal in places that are “duly licensed and authorised for that purpose”, which Silves river-front is not.
However, in comments to The Portugal News this week, Silves Mayor Rosa Palma described the GNR’s action as “drastic”, and stressed that she found it “odd and incorrect that Silves Council was not previously informed or consulted” about the measure.
“We should reiterate that, in recent times, the council has carried out educational awareness-raising actions among the motorhomers with the aim of persuading them to use parks on the outskirts of town with the appropriate facilities, but also allowing them to remain near the FISSUL [riverside exhibition pavilion], abiding by a certain set of rules.”
The Mayor added that “in these times of serious social, financial and economic crisis, more patience, contention and extreme deliberation should have been given to the measures to be taken, because the presence of motorhomes in Silves represents a boost and support to the dynamics of local trade, which should not be snubbed.”
Rosa Palma concluded by saying Silves council “laments” what happened, and has pledged to reverse the situation by promoting the creation of “adequate conditions for the installation of a public motorhome park in Silves.”
Concerns now are that the GNR’s action could have serious implications for the local economy.
An employee from a café in the nearby Modelo-Continente supermarket told The Portugal News that the campers’ absence will “without doubt” make a difference to their trade.
“We have already felt a difference, especially on Sunday afternoon when there were only the regular shoppers in. They [campers] do help trade here, particularly on weekends.”
But others are not so glowing in their reviews and argue a different point.
“They take over the car park and there’s no space for locals to park. They don’t contribute to local trade, except maybe to Lidl or Modelo because they buy all their food and cook it and eat it in front of their vans, and they’re staying in an area that is not equipped for camping. The general opinion round here is that camping here is not beneficial to anyone”, another Silves resident said.
The motorhomers themselves believe they are doing no harm and claim they are paying their way by boosting local trade despite opting to stay in areas without proper facilities like toilets or a public water supply such as Silves riverside, along the V6 in Praia da Rocha, and the riverside in Ferragudo.
Places for which, in their defence, the campers say they would be willing to pay, should charges be introduced.
“As we are here for two months, just like the ex-pat community, we don’t eat out every day but we do buy our food locally and enjoy a meal out and a drink like everyone else as a treat” one motor-homing couple said in recent correspondence to The Portugal News, adding: “We are currently staying in a new dedicated motorhome area (…) We are paying a fair €8 a night for a clean, well-run site with water, electricity, drainage and wi-fi. An example of enterprise that is being well-received by all concerned.”
Last year a group of motorhomers who spend most winters in Silves rallied together to raise just short of €1,300 as a means of giving thanks to locals “for putting up” with them, to be put towards helping the city’s needy.
The money was handed over to Silves Council, which used it to purchase eight wheelchairs that were given to a branch of the council’s Social Welfare department, to be used for the elderly and the disabled.

There was pictures attached but they didn't come through Alan:thumb:

 

[Alan]

Same Topic different country

27 February
2014
08:00
Print this

Wild campers met at the east coast at the weekend to complain about moves they say could stop them pulling onto local beauty spots.

Overnight parking campaigner Andy Strangeway said he informed both Lincolnshire Police and the local authority about his intention to visit and stay at the Huttoft Car Terrace and despite a bylaw preventing overnight stays, he said he wasn’t challenged.

He said: “The reason we took this direct action was to protest at the bylaw, the height bariers which prevent high-sided vehicles pulling onto the car terrace, and the fact 
this breaches disability legislation.

“Numerous friends joined me in 15 motorhomes. We stayed over the two nights and we were not fined which we believe clearly confirms that the county council has no legal authority to issue the fines for the reason that we took direct action for in the first 
place.”

Mr Strangeway challenged Coun Colin Davie, portfolio holder for environment, strategic planning and toursim, to respond after he had previously stated the authority would ‘not tolerate any illegal activity’.

Coun Davie said: “The bylaw is a legal instrument that is signed off by the secretary of state so if Mr Strangeway has a problem he should take it up there.

“The height barriers were necessary because over the last couple of years irresponsible wild campers have restricted access to it for everybody else. The car park terraces should be open for everybody.”

Sutton on Sea North councillor Steve Palmer said the reason some restrictions were put on Huttoft Terrace was because there were wild campers who lived on there causing an inconvenience for residents
same again couldn't add pictures:thumb:

 

[TheBig1]

twi
Home » News » Silves Mayor pledges to create a motorhome park after police clear vehicles from riverside
Silves Mayor pledges to create a motorhome park after police clear vehicles from riverside
IN NEWS · 27-02-2014 15:02:00 · 0 COMMENTS
A team of GNR environmental protection officers have cleared hundreds of motorhomers from the Silves riverside area in a move that has been slammed by local Mayor Rosa Palma, but applauded by the motorhomers’ critics.

Silves Mayor pledges to create a motorhome park after police clear vehicles from riverside
A glance at The Portugal News’ letters pages in recent weeks will prove just how divisive the subject of ‘wild-camping’ motor-homing has become.
Some lavish them with praise for helping to buoy an otherwise largely empty Algarve during low-season, while others deem them “freeloaders”.
Last Friday, 21 February, the GNR switched the heat up on that debate after a team of officers cleared the Silves riverside area of the many dozens if not hundreds of caravans that flock there every winter.
A GNR spokesperson told The Portugal News that the action was carried out after “various complaints were made by local residents”, some of whom said “the area was being used like a public bathroom.”
Furthermore, the spokesperson stressed that camping is only legal in places that are “duly licensed and authorised for that purpose”, which Silves river-front is not.
However, in comments to The Portugal News this week, Silves Mayor Rosa Palma described the GNR’s action as “drastic”, and stressed that she found it “odd and incorrect that Silves Council was not previously informed or consulted” about the measure.
“We should reiterate that, in recent times, the council has carried out educational awareness-raising actions among the motorhomers with the aim of persuading them to use parks on the outskirts of town with the appropriate facilities, but also allowing them to remain near the FISSUL [riverside exhibition pavilion], abiding by a certain set of rules.”
The Mayor added that “in these times of serious social, financial and economic crisis, more patience, contention and extreme deliberation should have been given to the measures to be taken, because the presence of motorhomes in Silves represents a boost and support to the dynamics of local trade, which should not be snubbed.”
Rosa Palma concluded by saying Silves council “laments” what happened, and has pledged to reverse the situation by promoting the creation of “adequate conditions for the installation of a public motorhome park in Silves.”
Concerns now are that the GNR’s action could have serious implications for the local economy.
An employee from a café in the nearby Modelo-Continente supermarket told The Portugal News that the campers’ absence will “without doubt” make a difference to their trade.
“We have already felt a difference, especially on Sunday afternoon when there were only the regular shoppers in. They [campers] do help trade here, particularly on weekends.”
But others are not so glowing in their reviews and argue a different point.
“They take over the car park and there’s no space for locals to park. They don’t contribute to local trade, except maybe to Lidl or Modelo because they buy all their food and cook it and eat it in front of their vans, and they’re staying in an area that is not equipped for camping. The general opinion round here is that camping here is not beneficial to anyone”, another Silves resident said.
The motorhomers themselves believe they are doing no harm and claim they are paying their way by boosting local trade despite opting to stay in areas without proper facilities like toilets or a public water supply such as Silves riverside, along the V6 in Praia da Rocha, and the riverside in Ferragudo.
Places for which, in their defence, the campers say they would be willing to pay, should charges be introduced.
“As we are here for two months, just like the ex-pat community, we don’t eat out every day but we do buy our food locally and enjoy a meal out and a drink like everyone else as a treat” one motor-homing couple said in recent correspondence to The Portugal News, adding: “We are currently staying in a new dedicated motorhome area (…) We are paying a fair €8 a night for a clean, well-run site with water, electricity, drainage and wi-fi. An example of enterprise that is being well-received by all concerned.”
Last year a group of motorhomers who spend most winters in Silves rallied together to raise just short of €1,300 as a means of giving thanks to locals “for putting up” with them, to be put towards helping the city’s needy.
The money was handed over to Silves Council, which used it to purchase eight wheelchairs that were given to a branch of the council’s Social Welfare department, to be used for the elderly and the disabled.

There was pictures attached but they didn't come through Alan:thumb:

also posted on here last week. see the thread below
Broken Link Removed

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[GJH]

27 February
2014
08:00
Print this

Wild campers met at the east coast at the weekend to complain about moves they say could stop them pulling onto local beauty spots.(snip)

Has Strangeways got a MH yet or is he still camping in his Fabia (thereby not risking fines for using a MH)? Funny that the photo shows the vans on a road and not on the car park that the restrictions applies to.

 

[TheBig1]

Huttoft[HI] Car [/HI]Terrace

the big clue is in the name and there are right and wrong ways to challenge a council decision. this action falls well into the latter. mr strangeway, your parking ticket is in the post

 

[MitchandJenny]

In reference to the "TAVERNES" Video.. They lift the manhole up and empty their cassettes down the sewer.... That number of vans is NEARLY enough to put us off our 1st crack at overwintering in the sun this coming winter... I said nearly !!

 

[Alan]

Huttoft Car Terrace

Has Strangeways got a MH yet or is he still camping in his Fabia (thereby not risking fines for using a MH)? Funny that the photo shows the vans on a road and not on the car park that the restrictions applies to.

Graham I believe the photo is taken on the car terrace as the approach road to it isn't fit to park on, very bendy and narrow
.
alan

 

[GJH]

Graham I believe the photo is taken on the car terrace as the approach road to it isn't fit to park on, very bendy and narrow
.
alan

So how did they get past the barriers?

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[Alan]

So how did they get past the barriers?

I'm not sure but the photo looks like the terrace, they probably removed the barriers for the sea defence work that happens a lot in that area, unfortunately I can't even have a ride up there to see as we're still in Spain until the end of the month
Alan

 

[GJH]

I'm not sure but the photo looks like the terrace, they probably removed the barriers for the sea defence work that happens a lot in that area, unfortunately I can't even have a ride up there to see as we're still in Spain until the end of the month
Alan

Strangeways' web site is full of comments about the barriers restricting access to high vehicles.

Activities like these do us no good at all, they simply entrench attitudes against motorhomers. It's hardly surprising that councils don't respond to such stunts as they know the sort of confrontation which would be stage managed if they did.

It's been well documented as to the reasons why the barriers were erected. If the people who abused the no camping order had ceased their activities then the barriers would not have had to be erected. It is those people who are to blame.

 

[Alan]

Hutoft

Strangeways' web site is full of comments about the barriers restricting access to high vehicles.

Activities like these do us no good at all, they simply entrench attitudes against motorhomers. It's hardly surprising that councils don't respond to such stunts as they know the sort of confrontation which would be stage managed if they did.

It's been well documented as to the reasons why the barriers were erected. If the people who abused the no camping order had ceased their activities then the barriers would not have had to be erected. It is those people who are to blame.

This was the first place I ever parked on when I first changed from caravan to motorhome in 2008 ,obviously its changed a lot since then but here is a photo of our van then,.a wonderful spot for our first night away

 

[GJH]

This was the first place I ever parked on when I first changed from caravan to motorhome in 2008 ,obviously its changed a lot since then but here is a photo of our van then,.a wonderful spot for our first night away

I'm not disputing that but when over use results in legal restrictions and those restrictions are, subsequently, abused there is only going to be the outcome that we have seen in Lincolnshire.

When events like that happen it makes it even harder to persuade other councils to allow even daytime parking in their car parks.

 

[Alan]

I'm not disputing that but when over use results in legal restrictions and those restrictions are, subsequently, abused there is only going to be the outcome that we have seen in Lincolnshire.

When events like that happen it makes it even harder to persuade other councils to allow even daytime parking in their car parks.

Unfortunately east lindsey had lots of problems with there carparks last summer with travellers and long stay motor homers abusing the system, but anyone staying for an odd night or weekend will have no trouble finding somewhere to park around the skegness area.
alan:thumb:

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[GJH]

Unfortunately east lindsey had lots of problems with there carparks last summer with travellers and long stay motor homers abusing the system, but [HI]anyone staying for an odd night or weekend will have no trouble finding somewhere to park around the skegness area.[/HI]
alan:thumb:

Exactly, just like the rest of the country. Broken Link Removed, there are thousands of places to overnight legally if one seeks them out.

 

[simsy56]

My, oh my, oh my. we seem to have hit the headlines!

We were the only 5th wheel parked on the 'wasteland' in Javea, so it must have been us that featured in the opening thread.

Slides out? No, we only have one. Legs down? yes we find this is the best way to leave the trailer without it falling on it's nose.

We have travelled around PT, and ES, since september. Staying on campsites, and off them if need be.

We wanted to visit Javea, because of recommendations, and to see a friend who lives in the vicinity.

Every camp site in the area was full!

We came across the 'wasteland', and parked up for a day or two, which ended up being 5 days. Javea is a lovely place. The police were friendly, and if asked to move on, we would have gone without argument.

We came with empty waste tanks, and full fresh water tanks, so were self sufficient for about a week. No cassette emptying in the night, which some were doing (in the sewers i might add).

Not a scrap of litter was left, and whilst there, we pumped over 500 euros into the local petrol stations, restaurants, supermarkets, ceramic shops, Ale-hop, and fish and chip shop.
Are we freeloaders?

If there had been a campsite pitch available, we would have been on it. There wasn't.
And as for the comment about, "there are about 50 there now", i don't think so. At the very most there was 24 i counted, and three on the 'lay byes'. An over exaggeration in numbers.

If there was an aire, it would be brilliant. Just to keep moving MH/RV owners along, isn't the answer.

We also had a look at Tavernes, and it is not the place we would want to be, yet some had been there since september. I can't think of anything worse.

We like peace, quiet, and solitude if possible. We don't mind paying for a site, or an aire, but when there is not an option, we will park where we think it is suitable for a night or two.

Presently we are on a campsite near Oliva, eurocamping is the site name, and very nice too.

We have also parted with 350 euros for camping at Marjal, Costa Blanca.

Are we still 'free loading tossers'?

Craig and Chris.

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

Had a look at the video a couple of times and didn't spot your fifth wheeler.Then again you may have been somewhere else with another 24 vans.
Unless the video was well edited ,there were around another hundred or so vans near by ,possibly wilding and blending in with other vans so harder too spot!
Looking at the video would you want that on your doorstep?
No wonder the locals are pissed off,what's wrong with parking out of town and travelling in?
Vlad.

 

[simsy56]

No we weren't on the video, that was Taveres. We were in Javea. Taveres is not for us.

Craig

 

[Chockswahay]

exactly the problem i am talking about. hundreds of vans all freeloading and not contributing to the area they are leaching off

Crikey! I've just found this thread, not read all of it but that video supports the point I made about the Algarve a few days ago

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