Are campervans motorhomes?

[Simonjdcooper]

We often refer to our motorhome, a Burstner A645 as 'the camper', but it doesn't really have much in common with a campervan. Not when considering the dimensions...

We weren't to Stratford Upon Avon the other day, and tried to park in one of the nine spaces by the leisure centre, there were 8 motorhomes, ranging from older coachbuilds to snazzy A classes. And VW campervan.

So the car park was full for motorhomes in the motorhome parking area, but it got me thinking as we drove off, should vans be able to park in the motorhome bays? They are barely bigger than a car (esp if not lwb) and certainly don't need the extra length and width that a 6m+ coach build requires...

We ended up parking at waitrose (2 hours free) and the height barriers were not being used.

What do you think fellow funsters?

 

[Pausim]

Motorhomes are in built self contained
(Loo & Shower & sleeping & cooking facilities)

Camper vans are not in built self contained.
(Therefore a campervan with a port-a-potty and a 'shower' that operates out of the rear hatch back boor and a curtain is not a motorhome.)

Either conversion could be a 5.5m PVC.
It's all about the in built facilities

I sometimes call my van a camper van and sometimes a motorhome. I never cal it a PVC because PVC stands for PolyVinylChloride which is a cheap thermo plastic.

 

[peterc10]

Anyone any good at making a flowchart ?

Does it look like a PVC ? Yes/No
Does it have windows in the side ? Yes/No
Is there a small hatch door in the side for the cassette ? Yes/No
(In the A class Hymer case above, No, Yes, Yes = You have a motorhome)

That is one way to tell the difference.
Very few (if any) PVC's would have a black tank.

If they have a cassette locker then they have a proper inbuilt loo and probably a shower, they are therefore a motorhome and not a campervan.

I know all that. I was checking the tests that Ernesto applied.

 

[Brains]

I sometimes call my van a camper van and sometimes a motorhome. I never cal it a PVC because PVC stands for PolyVinylChloride which is a cheap thermo plastic.

PVC: Other people think of other things

 

[chesterfield hooligan]

As a fully paid up member of the FLT we can park where we like I've even been known to pull onto a traveller site full of motorhomes (LOL) except for disabled parking I draw the line at that but hay each to their own live and let live .

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[ChrisSue]

At Stratford leisure centre, as the op says, there are designed motorhome bays and you can overnight in them. I'm guessing that the VW overnighted so felt it was best to be in the motorhome bays.

 

[Oldrat]

Interesting post.
In respect of parking restrictions that say “no motor homes”

Now according to the DVLA my converted van, is not a motor caravan but a “van with windows”.
Despite it having beds /shower /toilet/ sinks /hob/microwave/oven/ windows etc

This DVLA classification is irrelevant in respect of speed limits, but can be used as an defence to defend a parking ticket in a ‘no motorhome’ restricted zone.

For the Local Authority to successfully prove that a vehicle that is classified by the DVLA as a ‘van with windows’ is illegally parked (ie that it is a motor home), they would have to prove that it had all the internal requirements, bed cooker etc etc. so they would have to prove that it was in fact not a van with windows as per the DVLA, but indeed a motor caravan.

Incidentally the legal definition of a motor caravan
Is here.

LINK

 

[EuroTrotters]

My 7.5m long A Class Hymer is grey and aluminium. So what is it?

On my upgrade list

 

[Nanniemate]

Who cares what you call it,

Mines a van everyone we have had in the family for over 50 years has been called either camper or van . (And some derogatary names)

They are all built on either van bus or truck chasies

MOTORHOME is a relatively modern term used in UK where as the American term RV Is quiet appropriate as they are still on the same chasies but used for recreation

Fithwheelers now there's an interesting vehicle attached to a DP duel purpose vehicle but is a caravan with sometimes an upstairs

It's like your child you choose the name unfortunately for some they have to live with it.

 

[jezport]

Yes a van you can camp in or a home with a motor both the same.

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[WallaceandGromit]

We call ours the motor cravanny vroom vroom

 

[B+W vanman]

Given the level of literacy on social media, it does not matter whether you refer to a cimpervun or a munterheme………
Am I allowed to say that?

 

[Barriesimpson]

My wife calls it 'the apartment' I call it 'the van' the V5 (ficha técnica) classes it as a '3248' (autocaravana) with a category of M1.

 

[rod_vw]

The only definition that the DVLA use is Body type 'Motor Caravan if a vehicle that passes their definition .

If a vehicle is partly built for living & sleeping but does not pass the DVLA requirements than they designate the body type as 'Van with windows' . However if the vehicle visibly provides the living & sleeping fittings it is accepted in most cases as being used as a Motor Caravan in legal cases, speeding etc.

 

[GJH]

Interesting post.
In respect of parking restrictions that say “no motor homes”
(snip)

You will probably find that wording such as "No motorhomes" is all that can be fitted on signs to make them practical.
The full regulations (as for any other type of parking) will be in the TRO, and are normally written so as not to need to rely on any DVLA definition.

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[Oldrat]

Decisions by the DVLA as to vehicle classification seem to depend on which side of the bed they got out. Very inconsistent and contrary.

 

[Nanniemate]

I sometimes call my van a camper van and sometimes a motorhome. I never cal it a PVC because PVC stands for PolyVinylChloride which is a cheap thermo plastic.

It's none of those it's a WHOOSHBANG

 

[gus-lopez]

They are barely bigger than a car (esp if not lwb) and certainly don't need the extra length and width that a 6m+ coach build requires...

. A VW T6 and the other 5.4m Ducato/Mercedes conversions are about as long as a Range Rover so it's questionable as to whether they need to use the larger spaces.

there is a council in North Devon where one of the car parks a VW T 5/6 is ticketed if in a normal bay. They have to use the MH bays .Straight out the wardens mouth.

 

[pappajohn]

Just to confuse things......why are static caravans referred to as MOBILE HOMES when they are plumbed into mains electric, water and sewage services and can't move

 

[Tonks]

What do those VW vans have on the V5c? We have a PVC, call it “the van” and it has Motor Caravan on the V5c!

My VW T5 is registered as a 'Motor Caravan'. And it is definitely a campervan vehicle, not a motorhome.

Interesting post.
In respect of parking restrictions that say “no motor homes”

Now according to the DVLA my converted van, is not a motor caravan but a “van with windows”.
Despite it having beds /shower /toilet/ sinks /hob/microwave/oven/ windows etc

This DVLA classification is irrelevant in respect of speed limits, but can be used as an defence to defend a parking ticket in a ‘no motorhome’ restricted zone.

For the Local Authority to successfully prove that a vehicle that is classified by the DVLA as a ‘van with windows’ is illegally parked (ie that it is a motor home), they would have to prove that it had all the internal requirements, bed cooker etc etc. so they would have to prove that it was in fact not a van with windows as per the DVLA, but indeed a motor caravan.

Incidentally the legal definition of a motor caravan
Is here.

LINK

In most cases the DVLA's designation will have no bearing whatsoever on whether you get a fine in a council owned or operated car park. This is because in their T&Cs (often only findable on their website) it states that in these car parks a 'Motorhome' is defined as 'Any vehicle which can be adapted for sleeping'. Thus, if you accept their T&Cs by parking, whether you are driving a 'Motor Caravan' or a 'Van with windows' will make no difference. The wardens will ticket based on what they see, not what is on the DVLA's records. They don't have to prove it is a 'Motor Caravan', just that it can be slept in!
I looked into this in detail some time ago after an area popular with overnighting campervans (mostly smaller VW/Transit/Renault types) changed the regulations to stop overnighting...
Yes, you could argue the toss, but you'd be very unlikely to win. Personally I'd just bite the bullet, pay the fine, and move on - literally and metaphorically.

there is a council in North Devon where one of the car parks a VW T 5/6 is ticketed if in a normal bay. They have to use the MH bays .Straight out the wardens mouth.

I hope their signage is VERY clear then. I would be seriously pissed off if my SWB VW, which fits in all but the smallest parking bays, got a ticket for being there and parked within the marked space.
That said, I also am pissed off by those selfish folk who, because they consistently ignore the 'no overnighting' signs, have now also been the direct cause of some car parks now being off limits to ANY campers/MHs at ANY TIME OF DAY. So it's not even a case of 'you can't overnight there', but now 'you can't park there even for an hour simply to go for a walk and enjoy the scenery'.

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[Pausim]

My VW T5 is registered as a 'Motor Caravan'. And it is definitely a campervan vehicle, not a motorhome.

In most cases the DVLA's designation will have no bearing whatsoever on whether you get a fine in a council owned or operated car park. This is because in their T&Cs (often only findable on their website) it states that in these car parks a 'Motorhome' is defined as 'Any vehicle which can be adapted for sleeping'. Thus, if you accept their T&Cs by parking, whether you are driving a 'Motor Caravan' or a 'Van with windows' will make no difference. The wardens will ticket based on what they see, not what is on the DVLA's records. They don't have to prove it is a 'Motor Caravan', just that it can be slept in!
I looked into this in detail some time ago after an area popular with overnighting campervans (mostly smaller VW/Transit/Renault types) changed the regulations to stop overnighting...
Yes, you could argue the toss, but you'd be very unlikely to win. Personally I'd just bite the bullet, pay the fine, and move on - literally and metaphorically.

I hope their signage is VERY clear then. I would be seriously pissed off if my SWB VW, which fits in all but the smallest parking bays, got a ticket for being there and parked within the marked space.
That said, I also am pissed off by those selfish folk who, because they consistently ignore the 'no overnighting' signs, have now also been the direct cause of some car parks now being off limits to ANY campers/MHs at ANY TIME OF DAY. So it's not even a case of 'you can't overnight there', but now 'you can't park there even for an hour simply to go for a walk and enjoy the scenery'.

There is no legal distinction between campervan and motorhome, they are all motor caravans. I agree with you being pissed off with selfish folk who ignore signs and just bring in more rules and height barriers which makes life difficult for all of us.

 

[carolyn]

Our first 3 PVCs (Autosleeper and 2x IHs) were Motorcaravans on the V5C so we were surprised when Scot said the Consort Oslo would be a Panel van. We’ve called them all “the van” . We’ve now got an awning so we could go through the palaver of changing the V5C but why bother?

It’s 6.4 metres long so lots of ordinary supermarket spaces are too short unless you can overhang a grass verge. Some motorway services have the kerb so you can’t park through 2 but you don’t know until you get there and then you’ve missed the caravan/motorhome parking so we don’t try anymore.

It seems we could get picked up on speed cameras because we look like a van and that’s what the V5C says but could appeal. It’s easier to just not be heavy footed although sometimes 50 feels a bit slow!! That’s me not Nick.

 

[Oldrat]

My VW T5 is registered as a 'Motor Caravan'. And it is definitely a campervan vehicle, not a motorhome.

In most cases the DVLA's designation will have no bearing whatsoever on whether you get a fine in a council owned or operated car park. This is because in their T&Cs (often only findable on their website) it states that in these car parks a 'Motorhome' is defined as 'Any vehicle which can be adapted for sleeping'. Thus, if you accept their T&Cs by parking, whether you are driving a 'Motor Caravan' or a 'Van with windows' will make no difference. The wardens will ticket based on what they see, not what is on the DVLA's records. They don't have to prove it is a 'Motor Caravan', just that it can be slept in!
I looked into this in detail some time ago after an area popular with overnighting campervans (mostly smaller VW/Transit/Renault types) changed the regulations to stop overnighting...
Yes, you could argue the toss, but you'd be very unlikely to win. Personally I'd just bite the bullet, pay the fine, and move on - literally and metaphorically.

I hope their signage is VERY clear then. I would be seriously pissed off if my SWB VW, which fits in all but the smallest parking bays, got a ticket for being there and parked within the marked space.
That said, I also am pissed off by those selfish folk who, because they consistently ignore the 'no overnighting' signs, have now also been the direct cause of some car parks now being off limits to ANY campers/MHs at ANY TIME OF DAY. So it's not even a case of 'you can't overnight there', but now 'you can't park there even for an hour simply to go for a walk and enjoy the scenery'.

You make my point for me.

The council would have to prove that the van is habitable without entering it.

Meanwhile the DVLA weakens the “prosecution” case when you produce a V5 which shows it as a Van with Windows and not a motor caravan.

 

[GJH]

My VW T5 is registered as a 'Motor Caravan'. And it is definitely a campervan vehicle, not a motorhome.

In most cases the DVLA's designation will have no bearing whatsoever on whether you get a fine in a council owned or operated car park. This is because in their T&Cs (often only findable on their website) it states that in these car parks a 'Motorhome' is defined as 'Any vehicle which can be adapted for sleeping'. Thus, if you accept their T&Cs by parking, whether you are driving a 'Motor Caravan' or a 'Van with windows' will make no difference. The wardens will ticket based on what they see, not what is on the DVLA's records. They don't have to prove it is a 'Motor Caravan', just that it can be slept in!
I looked into this in detail some time ago after an area popular with overnighting campervans (mostly smaller VW/Transit/Renault types) changed the regulations to stop overnighting...
Yes, you could argue the toss, but you'd be very unlikely to win. Personally I'd just bite the bullet, pay the fine, and move on - literally and metaphorically.

I hope their signage is VERY clear then. I would be seriously pissed off if my SWB VW, which fits in all but the smallest parking bays, got a ticket for being there and parked within the marked space.
That said, I also am pissed off by those selfish folk who, because they consistently ignore the 'no overnighting' signs, have now also been the direct cause of some car parks now being off limits to ANY campers/MHs at ANY TIME OF DAY. So it's not even a case of 'you can't overnight there', but now 'you can't park there even for an hour simply to go for a walk and enjoy the scenery'.

Council parking Ts&Cs (which apply to all council parking, not just motorhomes) are not only findable on their websites, they are also findable in records held by council legal departments. They have always been available there, putting them on web sites has only been added since web sites were invented.
The same applies to Ts&Cs which private companies place on their parking areas (though they tend not to publish the full legal documents on their web sites).

 

[L' Hobo]

To ME, a Motorhome is a Coachbuilt or larger than 3500kgs, a Campervan is a Panel Van Conversion up to 4000kgs.

Other people may have other definitions!

PS. I always make sure mine are registered as MotorCaravans.

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[nicholsong]

To ME, a Motorhome is a Coachbuilt or larger than 3500kgs, a Campervan is a Panel Van Conversion up to 4000kgs.

Other people may have other definitions!

PS. I always make sure mine are registered as MotorCaravans.

So my N&B Arto at 7m which had MAM when I bought it of 3500kg was not a MH by your definition, but when I uprated it to 3850kg suddenly became a MH.

I am sure not many people would support that distinction.

 

[Nanniemate]

Can't wait for the DVLA to recognise
VEHICLE TYPE .......WHOOSH BANG

 

[CAB96]

Most car park regulations stipulate that the whole of the vehicle must be within the bay. Standard length of a bay is 5 metres and the length of a VW Campervan is 5.29 metres. On that basis, it needs to use a larger bay.

5.3m for a LWB, but 4.9m for SWB.

The new one built by Ford is 5.05m for the SWB.

 

[the1andonly]

When we had the Bongo I had interesting conversations with Parking "officials" it was registered as a Motor caravan with on board ablushions (shower back door) Eastern england Town 1 large carpark full but space for motorhomes, " no you cant park there its too small" even with a trailor attached so over 6.5M and no inline spaces and must be wholey in one space (i would have unhitched and taken/paid for 2 . Town 2 No Motor homes to be parked along road (loads of cars and free) a specific exemption, how about the Bongo "no we ticket all Bongos with a visible kitchen or dark window because it may have a kitchen". So whether its a van based or a Motor home don't expect to be treated fairly.

 

[Northernraider]

They're all motor caravans and all entitled to use the space.

I very rarely refer to my 8.4 metre a class as the motorhome, I call it the van or camper or if you're sensible and given it a name like I have Doc .

I never called my car a motor car either or my bikes a motorcycle

As long as its not cars in the camper bays all good

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[L' Hobo]

So my N&B Arto at 7m which had MAM when I bought it of 3500kg was not a MH by your definition, but when I uprated it to 3850kg suddenly became a MH.

I am sure not many people would support that distinction.

So, a Arto isn't a Coachbuilt then, is that what your saying?

Isn't it strange how we read what we want to read and not necessarily, what's written?

My first line (which YOU highlighted in your answer) read, 'To ME, a Motorhome is a Coachbuilt OR ....'