Are CAMC finally getting the message (3 Viewers)

[SpeedyDux]

Exactly! Totally agree. EU prices are far more reasonable. CAMC are pricing themselves out of the market.

It will be interesting to find out if the CAMC is suffering an overall decline in the number of pitch nights actually used by the members, and what the non-occupancy rate now is. I think that the Club's gross income from their sites might go up anyway thanks to the high pitch fees, so I expect that the annual Performance Review for 2023 by D-G Lomas will carry on putting a positive spin on the overall situation. Membership numbers keep increasing with more newbies joining than old hands leaving, and that trend may well continue. Let's see what the October 2024 Club Magazine says, and importantly what it omits to say.

The fact that the Club keeps offering discounts on some sites plus free vouchers does suggest there is a vacancy problem due to the high pitch fees.

 

[poppycamper]

It will be interesting to find out if the CAMC is suffering an overall decline in the number of pitch nights actually used by the members, and what the non-occupancy rate now is

It would also be interesting to find out on sites that Funsters are reporting to look very full, how many pitchs are taken by Members as apposed to Non Members?

 

[jerryz]

In Thailand when sales go down retailers , restauranters , hoteliers etc etc raise prices on the basis that when I had 1000 customers a month i got X profit and now i only have 500 customers a month I still need X profit so i raise my prices ,, this usually means they loose more customers ,, but then they raise thier prices again its a zero sum game ,,, seems the UK has cottoned on to this amazing business idea .

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[TheMachMan]

I guess there’s also a new cohort of motorhomers after covid who perhaps haven’t experienced those cheaper site prices. So they don’t know any different.

 

[Otter Spotter]

In Thailand when sales go down retailers , restauranters , hoteliers etc etc raise prices on the basis that when I had 1000 customers a month i got X profit and now i only have 500 customers a month I still need X profit so i raise my prices ,, this usually means they loose more customers ,, but then they raise thier prices again its a zero sum game ,,, seems the UK has cottoned on to this amazing business idea .

There must come a point when people just stop going because they are too expensive?

 

[jerryz]

There must come a point when people just stop going because they are too expensive?

yep they go bust but they never learn ,

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[CAB96]

Exactly! Totally agree. EU prices are far more reasonable. CAMC are pricing themselves out of the market.

Exactly.

All they have to do is double the size of the country and halve the value of land, then they can charge EU prices.

But will they actually do anything about it? Do they ever listen? No. Just sit around in their caravans drinking G&T and discussing aquarolls. It's a bloomin' disgrace, I tell you.

 

[SpeedyDux]

I guess there’s also a new cohort of motorhomers after covid who perhaps haven’t experienced those cheaper site prices. So they don’t know any different.

I get the impression that an increasing proportion of new MHs are on PCP or lease finance whereas in the past outright purchase was the norm.

Anyone who is spending around £1k per month on a MH lease is going to be less price sensitive than I am, when it comes to high pitch fees. They will prioritise getting regular use of their MH regardless.

 

[seasideBill]

Generally not a fan of CAMC but had a positive experience this week. I contacted them to ask why I hadn’t received a free overnight voucher as many members obviously had. They ignored my first email so I tried again. This time I got a reply confirming I hadn’t received a voucher because my communication preferences were all set to ‘no’. However, they offered to reimburse me one night for a recent stay I had in Knaresborough (£36) or email a voucher for a future stay. Better than I expected. I might even retain my membership using the £36 as a fee discount!

Unfortunately refund turned out to be £20 not £33.60 as promised. Maybe I was expecting too much? Anyway, that knocks the prospect of membership renewal on the head.

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[nicholsong]

I do not think CCC and C&MC 'business' models would last one season on the Continent.

 

[veloap]

Not sure what you mean by the limit on numbers?

If you mean the 5 van limit that is due to the planning laws, as far as I am aware, that's the limit to which the exempting organisations can grant the exemption.

Anything more needs planning permission.

You are correct. So why don’t the clubs use some of their clout to change this? Answer - not in their best interest as owners of large chains of campsites.

 

[CAB96]

You are correct. So why don’t the clubs use some of their clout to change this? Answer - not in their best interest as owners of large chains of campsites.

That requires a revision of the act of parliament.

I doubt any MP would agree to expansion in size of planning-exempt sites. The whole point is that they are small and unobtrusive.

But if that is something you want to campaign for, then lobby your MP, and join both clubs and get it written into their constitution at the next AGMs.

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[SpeedyDux]

That requires a revision of the act of parliament.

I doubt any MP would agree to expansion in size of planning-exempt sites. The whole point is that they are small and unobtrusive.

But if that is something you want to campaign for, then lobby your MP, and join both clubs and get it written into their constitution at the next AGMs.

It goes beyond that. Campsites are not going to get priority under the Planning system. The Local Authorities will always look for land to allocate for new residential development so they can meet targets set by central government. I suspect that campsites are one of the areas where leisure uses would be superseded by residential uses. A current example is Baltic Wharf CAMC site. The favoured proposal is to build high density flats on that site. Only held up because of the flood risk in that part of Bristol's harbour. Nobody saw that coming ...

 

[nicholsong]

That requires a revision of the act of parliament.

I doubt any MP would agree to expansion in size of planning-exempt sites. The whole point is that they are small and unobtrusive.

But if that is something you want to campaign for, then lobby your MP, and join both clubs and get it written into their constitution at the next AGMs.

A lot of 5-van sites are already bigger than that but are not allowed to let more MHs on. They can have as many tents as they like, so it would just be a matter of turning over more tent area to MHs, wouldn't it?

 

[Dave7]

1st visit at a CAMC site and we are very pleased and will be returning
Yes it’s not cheap but it’s York so relative to staying in a hotel/paying for parking.
Staff very nice and campsite is good and also has a waste water dumping point rather than having to use a container which I’ve not seen much.

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[poppycamper]

A lot of 5-van sites are already bigger than that but are not allowed to let more MHs on. They can have as many tents as they like, so it would just be a matter of turning over more tent area to MHs, wouldn't it?

Not strictly true... CL/CS's are allowed a maximum of 5 vans ( mohos or caravans) plus a maximum of 10 tents..
So they would not be able to just turn over more tent area to mohos, they still only allowed 5 vans.
Incidently the one reason some sites have more than 5 hookups is to cater for those tents, which are more and more becoming dependant on EHU's.

 

[bigtwin]

Not strictly true... CL/CS's are allowed a maximum of 5 vans ( mohos or caravans) plus a maximum of 10 tents..
So they would not be able to just turn over more tent area to mohos, they still only allowed 5 vans.
Incidently the one reason some sites have more than 5 hookups is to cater for those tents, which are more and more becoming dependant on EHU's.

No, they can have five times as many MH pitches as the number of exemptions that they hold. There should however be delineation between each area.

Some operators have exemptions from multiple authorising organisations (e.g. CAMH, C&CC, Motor Caravanners Club, Motorhome Fun, CAMpRA, etc).

Ian

 

[poppycamper]

No, they can have five times as many MH pitches as the number of exemptions that they hold. There should however be delineation between each area.

Some operators have exemptions from multiple authorising organisations (e.g. CAMH, C&CC, Motor Caravanners Club, Motorhome Fun, CAMpRA, etc).

Ian

Yes.. so therefore each delineated area is restricted to 5vans and 10 tents.... no matter how many excemption certificates you hold! And therefore cannot just use tent area for more mohos!

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[nicholsong]

A lot of 5-van sites are already bigger than that but are not allowed to let more MHs on. They can have as many tents as they like, so it would just be a matter of turning over more tent area to MHs, wouldn't it? [Corrected that tent limit is 10]

I was following the thread suggestions that planning permission would be needed to expand the areas of 5-van sites, whereas many 5-van sites have enough space and all that is needed is to lift the 5-van restriction without expansion of the site area, so no planning permission needed.

 

[poppycamper]

I was following the thread suggestions that planning permission would be needed to expand the areas of 5-van sites, whereas many 5-van sites have enough space and all that is needed is to lift the 5-van restriction without expansion of the site area, so no planning permission needed.

It's not the area involved...(they may have 100acres) it's the fact they are limited to 5vans unless they apply for planning permission.

 

[bigtwin]

This is the sequence that I was replying to:

A lot of 5-van sites are already bigger than that but are not allowed to let more MHs on.

CL/CS's are allowed a maximum of 5 vans ( mohos or caravans)

No, they can have five times as many MH pitches as the number of exemptions that they hold.

Separately, nicholsong was asking a question:

They can have as many tents as they like, so it would just be a matter of turning over more tent area to MHs, wouldn't it?

To which you replied in the negative (repeating that only 5 vans are permitted):

So they would not be able to just turn over more tent area to mohos, they still only allowed 5 vans.

But then in response to my clarification you acknowledge, by reference to delineated areas, that your original statement was inaccurate/misleading and that a 5 van exemption site can indeed accommodate >5 vans.

Yes.. so therefore each delineated area is restricted to 5vans and 10 tents.... no matter how many excemption certificates you hold!

If we’re not careful here we’re going to end up having a violent agreement.

Ian

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[poppycamper]

This is the sequence that I was replying to:






Separately, nicholsong was asking a question:



To which you replied in the negative (repeating that only 5 vans are permitted):


But then in response to my clarification you acknowledge, by reference to delineated areas, that your original statement was inaccurate/misleading and that a 5 van exemption site can indeed accommodate >5 vans.



If we’re not careful here we’re going to end up having a violent agreement.

Ian

Well I have just read thru that, and I am now totally confused...
But, however I do love a violent agreement... I will borrow Mrs Poppycampers handbag and I will see you at dawn...

 

[cyberyacht]

I could never engage in a duel. They are conducted at such an uncivilised hour.

 

[nicholsong]

I could never engage in a duel. They are conducted at such an uncivilised hour.

Not even to duel with a tide? Or do/did you sail a mud-hopper?

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[cyberyacht]

Not even to duel with a tide? Or do/did you sail a mud-hopper?

Left all that behind fourteen years ago. Don't have to scrub and antifoul a motorhome.

 

[poppycamper]

Don't have to scrub and antifoul a motorhome

That sounds like a fair description to what some do to their moho roofs

 

[cyberyacht]

Even the grubbiest motorhome doesn't get barnacles on the roof.

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[Grianan]

No, they can have five times as many MH pitches as the number of exemptions that they hold. There should however be delineation between each area.

Some operators have exemptions from multiple authorising organisations (e.g. CAMH, C&CC, Motor Caravanners Club, Motorhome Fun, CAMpRA, etc).

Ian

This explains things. We have only used a few CLs, and noticed one has different areas with a few vans on each …

 

[Arnside037]

Well, we are currently sitting in the van on the CAMC York site, it’s completely full, just back from a leisurely stroll from lunch in a delightful restaurant overlooking the Ouse. Wonderful location for a site and worth every penny.

Just booked Melrose for tomorrow, quickly and easily on the website , only paid my deposit and looking forward to another wonderful town site.

We have a month in Germany coming up, mainly stellplatz and in September a week in Spain, mix of sites/aires. It’s great to have choice and for those who don’t like the 2 main clubs there is lots of other choice.

Happy camping!

Melrose has a couple of circular walks over the river and back. Shame that Melrose Abbey most of the NT for Scotland sites are closed for elf and safety reason's. Apparenty we were told its cos some woman got hit by a falling pebble so the only two stonemasons employed have to mend all the sites in scotland. Or this that another urban myth.
Yes the club sites have their advantages when its convenient to use one, but like many others, it the cl network that sells it, rather than the club network.

 

[DucatoMan2]

The explanation I was just given for a charge of 37.50 for an extension, whilst there's 'no need to move - plenty of room' was 'dynamic pricing'. So it seems they are following the Ryan Air model. Perhaps best to book these now like you would an airline flight? (for instance I hear evenings can be more expensive). OK, all's fair in business but I think the use of the term 'club' is getting a bit ridiculous.

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