Anyone in Italy yet...

MR. FUSION said:
So you think they are all disease free ??? That is impossible. If they try to enter the EU and UK without proper authorisation then they are criminals. Undocumented migrants moving around on public transport is a prime source of Infection. There many of them doing this in Europe, I have spent months on public transport across Europe, I have seen them. I saw one fare dodger arrested in Vienna in front of me, he had no papers and was deemed to be illegal.

Illegals will not seek medical help in many cases, keeping the infection under the authorities radar and until it's to late.
Click to expand...

I didn't say any of those things.

I merely objected to your specific targeting of migrants as the main coronavirus risk, using pretty crude language. It was clearly racist in sentiment. Something which is unfortunately too often in evidence on this forum.

I'm no liberal snowflake - but I know a racist meme when I see one. There were plenty of similar ones in the 1930s about the diseases that Jewish people were said to carry.

For the avoidance of doubt - you are wrong on the coronavirus risk. The risk of bringing it into the UK (which will shortly become universal so it is a pointless debate to identify who is "risky") is currently from holiday makers, business travellers, skiers and cruiseshippers. Not your average profile of a migrant on the Greek border.

Racist memes lead to hatred and physical attacks. Call out the memes and we can reduce the hatred.

Oh, and on a point of fact, are you able to evidence your statement that "Undocumented migrants moving around on public transport is a prime source of Infection". Or is it simply another unfounded assumption you are making? Is the R0 of an undocumented migrant higher than a documented one, and higher than a legal citizen? For which infections or for all? Careful now, my use of the term R0 ought to tip you off that I know what I am talking about...
 
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gus-lopez said:
So we contain the outbreak but end up with up to 3 million economic migrants,illegal criminals ? No thanks . better for the Greeks or anyone to stop the problem at the Turkish border-
Click to expand...

I don't understand your point. I wasn't advocating an open border. I was objecting to a baseless racist meme. Simple as that.
 
LesW said:
Now that is funny, what a load, of absolute nonsense, why not say what's meant.. coded messages, honestly!

Do people really believe this tripe?
Click to expand...

Unfortunately yes. It feeds into a subconscious view of the world. It's a bit like subliminal advertising, but more sinister.

Mr Fusion could have said "Thousands of potentially infected British holidaymakers in Turkey will return to the UK this week" or "Thousands of of potentially infected retired cruise-ship passengers will return from the far east this week".

That would also have been true and equally representative of the "risk" we face.

But he chose only to refer to "thousands of potentially infected migrants". That is called a dog whistle, and why I objected to it.

But - I've called it out and posted 4 times on the subject now. So think it is best if I leave it at that.
 
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Peter and Julie said:
Love the wines name 'La PISTATA' Wonder what that translates as? :LOL: Couple of bottles of that will kill off Coronavirus!
Click to expand...
Sorry, just seen this.

Appears to be working so far. Will carry on with the trials and keep every one posted.:drinks:

Was busy glazing over with the other stuff posted.:sleep:
 
Glas Robin said:
I object to this comment - on the grounds it is unfounded, wrong and overtly racist.

"Thousands of possibly infected migrants" is a blatant dog whistle and I feel compelled to call it out.

Covid19 is going to spread amongst all of us just like a cold or the flu does. It has nothing to do with nationality or economic status. It is ill-informed comments like yours that contribute to events like that innocent Singaporean guy getting his head kicked in on Oxford Street in London last week by a group of thugs chanting "we don't want your coronavirus in our country". https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-51736755

If you want to be factual about the current risk in the EU, then it is coming from people with the economic capital to travel on exotic foreign holidays, business trips and Italian skiing trips.

But it is inevitable that most of us will be infected in the next 6 months (40/50% is an intelligent estimate, and 80% is the government's reasonable worst case).

The less we do to scaremonger and sow division, and the more we do to sensibly plan for the social and economic disruption that will accompany the outbreak, the better.
Click to expand...
A bit difficult I.M.O. to say this post is unfounded when the poster clearly states it's a possibility and not a matter of fact. Furthermore, we know the figures being released from countries like Syria and Iran are no where near accurate and it is highly likely a percentage of migrants massing on the Turkish/ Greek boarder are infected.
 
Helen Ariel said:
Why is so much racist rubbish allowed to posted on this site. Repeat offenders should be banned.
Click to expand...
When I was a kid in the East end of London I can still remember signs in house windows saying, Room to let, no blacks, no Irish, no dogs.. the same in some pubs.

Later on in life when working as a council officer in the same East London Borough, I encountered many acts of racism, 'Paki Bashing' for instance, black people being treated badly or denied services because they were black, me being spat on and called white trash, there were many other instances of this type.

Nowadays though, anyone with a negative view of a non-white person is immediately pounced on and called a racist, so forgive me if your view of 'racism' is completely different from my view of racism.

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LesW said:
Nowadays though, anyone with a negative view of a non-white person is immediately pounced on and called a racist, so forgive me if your view of 'racism' is completely different from my view of racism.
Click to expand...

With the greatest respect, I would suggest your view of racism is also probably different from those who experience racism.

You're right balance is needed. I've never "called out" a racist meme before - but something about Mr Fusion's scapegoating of migrants struck a chord.
 
LesW said:
When I was a kid in the East end of London I can still remember signs in house windows saying, Room to let, no blacks, no Irish, no dogs.. the same in some pubs.

Later on in life when working as a council officer in the same East London Borough, I encountered many acts of racism, 'Paki Bashing' for instance, black people being treated badly or denied services because they were black, me being spat on and called white trash, there were many other instances of this type.

Nowadays though, anyone with a negative view of a non-white person is immediately pounced on and called a racist, so forgive me if your view of 'racism' is completely different from my view of racism.
Click to expand...
So because people used to be openly racist it's ok to be a little bit racist now ?
 
Glas Robin said:
With the greatest respect, I would suggest your view of racism is also probably different from those who experience racism.

You're right balance is needed. I've never "called out" a racist meme before - but something about Mr Fusion's scapegoating of migrants struck a chord.
Click to expand...
I did the same last week. In a disease with a 2 week max incubation period they would have to walk pretty quick.

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Glas Robin said:
I've called it out and posted 4 times on the subject now. So think it is best if I leave it at that.
Click to expand...

Did you see that the Bristol Post named people who had been trolling Greta Thunberg on their Facebook page? About time people posting nonsense online were taken to task imo.
 
Glas Robin said:
I didn't say any of those things.

I merely objected to your specific targeting of migrants as the main coronavirus risk, using pretty crude language. It was clearly racist in sentiment. Something which is unfortunately too often in evidence on this forum.

I'm no liberal snowflake - but I know a racist meme when I see one. There were plenty of similar ones in the 1930s about the diseases that Jewish people were said to carry.

For the avoidance of doubt - you are wrong on the coronavirus risk. The risk of bringing it into the UK (which will shortly become universal so it is a pointless debate to identify who is "risky") is currently from holiday makers, business travellers, skiers and cruiseshippers. Not your average profile of a migrant on the Greek border.

Racist memes lead to hatred and physical attacks. Call out the memes and we can reduce the hatred.

Oh, and on a point of fact, are you able to evidence your statement that "Undocumented migrants moving around on public transport is a prime source of Infection". Or is it simply another unfounded assumption you are making? Is the R0 of an undocumented migrant higher than a documented one, and higher than a legal citizen? For which infections or for all? Careful now, my use of the term R0 ought to tip you off that I know what I am talking about...
Click to expand...
It is common sense.
 
Glas Robin said:
I object to this comment - on the grounds it is unfounded, wrong and overtly racist.

"Thousands of possibly infected migrants" is a blatant dog whistle and I feel compelled to call it out.

Covid19 is going to spread amongst all of us just like a cold or the flu does. It has nothing to do with nationality or economic status. It is ill-informed comments like yours that contribute to events like that innocent Singaporean guy getting his head kicked in on Oxford Street in London last week by a group of thugs chanting "we don't want your coronavirus in our country". https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-51736755

If you want to be factual about the current risk in the EU, then it is coming from people with the economic capital to travel on exotic foreign holidays, business trips and Italian skiing trips.

But it is inevitable that most of us will be infected in the next 6 months (40/50% is an intelligent estimate, and 80% is the government's reasonable worst case).

The less we do to scaremonger and sow division, and the more we do to sensibly plan for the social and economic disruption that will accompany the outbreak, the better.
Click to expand...
Well said,,too many people ready to condemn these poor desperate people..Thank God I was born somewhere safe..BUSBY.
 
Glas Robin said:
I didn't say any of those things.

I merely objected to your specific targeting of migrants as the main coronavirus risk, using pretty crude language. It was clearly racist in sentiment. Something which is unfortunately too often in evidence on this forum.

I'm no liberal snowflake - but I know a racist meme when I see one. There were plenty of similar ones in the 1930s about the diseases that Jewish people were said to carry.

For the avoidance of doubt - you are wrong on the coronavirus risk. The risk of bringing it into the UK (which will shortly become universal so it is a pointless debate to identify who is "risky") is currently from holiday makers, business travellers, skiers and cruiseshippers. Not your average profile of a migrant on the Greek border.

Racist memes lead to hatred and physical attacks. Call out the memes and we can reduce the hatred.

Oh, and on a point of fact, are you able to evidence your statement that "Undocumented migrants moving around on public transport is a prime source of Infection". Or is it simply another unfounded assumption you are making? Is the R0 of an undocumented migrant higher than a documented one, and higher than a legal citizen? For which infections or for all? Careful now, my use of the term R0 ought to tip you off that I know what I am talking about...
Click to expand...
If the migrant is undocumented how do you know they are who they say they are and from where they say they are ??????
 
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Glas Robin said:
I didn't say any of those things.

I merely objected to your specific targeting of migrants as the main coronavirus risk, using pretty crude language. It was clearly racist in sentiment. Something which is unfortunately too often in evidence on this forum.

I'm no liberal snowflake - but I know a racist meme when I see one. There were plenty of similar ones in the 1930s about the diseases that Jewish people were said to carry.

For the avoidance of doubt - you are wrong on the coronavirus risk. The risk of bringing it into the UK (which will shortly become universal so it is a pointless debate to identify who is "risky") is currently from holiday makers, business travellers, skiers and cruiseshippers. Not your average profile of a migrant on the Greek border.

Racist memes lead to hatred and physical attacks. Call out the memes and we can reduce the hatred.

Oh, and on a point of fact, are you able to evidence your statement that "Undocumented migrants moving around on public transport is a prime source of Infection". Or is it simply another unfounded assumption you are making? Is the R0 of an undocumented migrant higher than a documented one, and higher than a legal citizen? For which infections or for all? Careful now, my use of the term R0 ought to tip you off that I know what I am talking about...
Click to expand...
When they become illegal immigrants into Europe they are criminals are they not ?? I think the clue is the term illegal.

I did not mean they were all criminals before becoming illegal aliens.

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MR. FUSION said:
When they become illegal immigrants into Europe they are criminals are they not ?? I think the clue is the term illegal.

I did not mean they were all criminals before becoming illegal aliens.
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Thought you were not a criminal until a court finds you guilty,,before that you are just the accused.BUSBY.
 
gus-lopez said:
When they have paid large sums of money to travel across europe 'poor' & 'desperate' shouldn't be in the sentence.
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Think both words are significant.Probably had money before they departed their homeland but were obviously very very desperate.Should think any funds would be depleted by the time they arrive in Europe..Very sad ..BUSBY.
 
MR. FUSION said:
When they become illegal immigrants into Europe they are criminals are they not ?? I think the clue is the term illegal.

I did not mean they were all criminals before becoming illegal aliens.
Click to expand...

Not that straightforward .. ‘illegal’ is a contravention of the law, whereas ‘criminal’ is about something you can be punished for. Not every violation of the law counts as a crime. Semantics you may think, but important difference if you’re at the receiving end.
 
busby said:
Think both words are significant.Probably had money before they departed their homeland but were obviously very very desperate.Should think any funds would be depleted by the time they arrive in Europe..Very sad ..BUSBY.
Click to expand...
Then you can put them up house them school them etc etc .....

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