spitfire
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My son as a pharmacist who has worked without a holiday since the beginning but advises his parents to stay home . I trust his opinion
Any one driven from UK, through France to Spain in recent days?
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Northernraider
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As i said the uk has the worst figures in europe
Highest death toll also
3 x that of germany yet 15 million less in population .
And the benefit of being an island that could have with a decent government locked down quicker at the start
But we were apparently prepared for this .... Matt hancock February
And adopting herd immunity ....chief scientific advisor march
I look forward to the public enquiry next year ....but then again im still waiting to see the russian interference report soi doubt we will.
Worldbeating
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I have worked (with my sons) almost throughout, taken reasonable precaution.
I see them all most days and we meet out of work - they do not live at home
- as a father my concerns are more for them - their mental and physical well-being..... each to his own
jessthedog
Free Member
Spot on my friend.
Belguim, Italy and Spain have a worse reported death rate per pop then the UK.
As for Covid cases Luxembourg, Belgium,Spain, France, Austria, Switzerland, Portugal, Sweden, Italy, Poland , Romania, Hungary. To name but a few European countries. All have worse Covid cases per population then the UK.
So don't take to much notice of the biased ill informed, who will always spout utter nonsense.
TM59
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Not getting into an argument. Once again Tam you are correct!!As i said the uk has the worst figures in europe
Highest death toll also
3 x that of germany yet 15 million less in population .
And the benefit of being an island that could have with a decent government locked down quicker at the start
But we were apparently prepared for this .... Matt hancock February
And adopting herd immunity ....chief scientific advisor march
I look forward to the public enquiry next year ....but then again im still waiting to see the russian interference report soi doubt we will.
Worldbeating
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spitfire
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Me too for him especially as he was working in a pharmacy as a locumafter staff had Covid and at present he is isolating yet again. And as he is in the U.K. can’t see him . Our ex daughter in law is also a pharmacist and our grandchildren have also had to isolate during the pandemic because if their mother so please don’t indicate I don’t care for them . I am only saying that I trust the advice he has given to us which is to stay at home
Kozikot
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Sorry I live in France and I certainly am not tarring everyone with the same brush but I just wish anyone travelling out with the regulations would just be honest .
ie I don’t give a stuff for the regulations because I want to do this
You don't HAVE to stay Home Anymore, the regulations on travel will end on Dec 15th except for the curfew, as Most thought they would, glass half full and all that...but feel free to stay at home if you so wish, but us who want to travel can, legally, so maybe now All the Preaching can stop... Keep Safe
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It seems you have a good relationship with your son, every family is different, my wife (their mother) passed away 7 years ago when my sons were in their 20's.
I'm 75, they are still young and need support and giving them that keeps me wanting to stay alive. I've seen them all struggle, mentally, through lockdown.
Breaking the 'rules' and meeting has kept them safe.......
...... and I don't need 'experts' to tell me how to look after my family!
For the latest figures per 100,000 people within Geographical Europe (Including Azerbaijan and Turkey) click on this link
https://www.tradewindsnews.com/peop...onation-as-covid-19-ravages-greece/2-1-928379
and scroll down to the bottom of the article for the interactive map.
(Hopefully it's not behind a paywall, as the original version is)
But in Summary deaths per 100,000:
Bulgaria and Slovenia are worst at 26/100,000
Italy, Austria, Switzerland Poland are in the mid teens
The UK is at 8
Netherlands, Spain, Germany are all about 5.
https://www.tradewindsnews.com/peop...onation-as-covid-19-ravages-greece/2-1-928379
and scroll down to the bottom of the article for the interactive map.
(Hopefully it's not behind a paywall, as the original version is)
But in Summary deaths per 100,000:
Bulgaria and Slovenia are worst at 26/100,000
Italy, Austria, Switzerland Poland are in the mid teens
The UK is at 8
Netherlands, Spain, Germany are all about 5.
spitfire
Free Member
You take care if yourself and family . These are the times when I wish we were nearer .
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Figures conflict with Worldometer, Belgium still the worst, Bulgaria less than UK,and Slovenia fractionally above UK. We will never know the ‘real’ figures.
Northernraider
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This is the bit i find incredibly amusing
Personally i couldn't care less how many infections there are the same way i dont care who has the cold
Im interested in the number of people in each country who have died from this virus ....many who didn't need to if government had done things differently.
Infections dont matter ...most of those will have a mild flu and recover .
63000 deaths matters
Northernraider
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It isnt an argument ...i dont care about how many per hundred thousand as im sure the families of the poor souls that died in care homes etc dont either.
I just care that in Europe the uk has the highest death toll at 63+ thousand the closest 2nd being italy at 62 thousand
No other had the advantage of being an island nor the advantage of being forewarned as we were
I remember when Italy had only 100 and odd deaths warning the uk what was coming ....i was working for italians at the time last january ....and what action was taken ? None ...instead we had the health secretary claim the uk was fully prepared for any event.
a government telling us they were following the science
the chief scientist stating on live radio the uk was following a plan of herd immunity .....
Mistake after mistake after mistake and denial after denial
U turn after u turn
Thats the facts
Nothing to argue about
I like many others have my own suspicion why things were delayed ....uk too busy debating big ben bongs and distracted by other matters to take any advice from our enemy.
But we won't go there.
If theres ever an inquiry it will come out in the wash .....yeah right.
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Errr, the map is measuring deaths, not infections.
Here is the Worldometer, view for Europe, as of midnight yesterday.
(Ordered by Deaths per million)
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
TM59
Free Member
Agree with you the facts are the facts. Problem being convincing the un-convincable.
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Northernraider
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Exactly and look who has the most at 63,082.
That's right the uk
How many hundred thousand people were around them at the time is just smokescreen
Now look at the total population figures
That's right, UK is also has the biggest population
It's the percentage of the population that is most important.
The overall number per country is the smokescreen.
signworks
LIFE MEMBER
Thought this thread was about who driven thru uk to Spain not the rights and wrongs off doing it
Depends what you mean by getting things right. I would agree nowhere has had the success of places like Australia with early and strict action but Germany's death toll stands out as better than the others.
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Depends if you believe Germanys' figures.............
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They are the figures for a recent small window of time not the pandemic so far. It's obvious when you look at the figure of 8 per 100,000 thats 80 a million we are way above that as a whole. The figures per million for the pandemic put us near the top. Very similar to France and Spain a lot worse than Germany.
Countries that acted strongly and early have done better and at the end will have less economic loss. The thought that ignore it hope for the best and support short term economic mitigation will work I think is way off. Stronger action and earlier has caused short term economic loss but as the countries then can open up more fully in the longer term they have done better in health and the economy. Look at Sweden and Norway. Sweden is well known for taking less action. They have 10 times more dead than Norway but just as much if not more GDP loss. Why would anyone want that.
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I think you put too much effort into the speculation surrounding this pandemic.........
.......... there is still less than 1.5 million deaths Worldwide - population 8000 million...........
........ in the UK alone 100,000 more are now waiting at least a year for urgent care for other serious conditions................ignored because of the focus on Covid
I don't see how not acting to reduce the spread of covid so there are more covid cases in hospital helps to treat other conditions could you please explain your logic?
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The focus on Covid is killing others with untreated serious conditions - and it will get much worse over the whole health care system.......
dabhand
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7 Pages of cretinous blather, there’s a bit of an (at the moment) uncureable flu going around, it kills people, mix with your own family if allowed and after your own risk assessment, and stay away from others if that’s what the rules say cos if you don’t, you risk killing your own family as well as others, now don’t be silly and obey the rules, and if you don’t know what they are, 4 cough cos your a nob! Stay safe all, and live another day, as the Bond film says, or have I got that wrong? 
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The title of this thread is quite clear. If you have no interest in traveling why are you bothering?
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Or the UK’s. Anyone’s for that matter.
If someone died, say of heart attack or stroke, as examples. But, from uk Gov website....
Defining a COVID-19 death
Although it might seem straightforward, counting the number of people who have died from COVID-19 related illness is complex.The infection can lead to death soon after diagnosis, but it may also cause death many weeks later. Someone who tests positive can of course die from another cause such as cancer or heart disease at any time.
A death in someone who has tested positive becomes progressively less likely to be directly due to COVID-19 as time passes and more likely to be due to another cause. However, there is no agreed cut-off after which COVID-19 can be excluded as a likely cause and sadly, we know that some people die from their infection many weeks later. Coronavirus can also contribute to a death
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Well, back to the main subject of this episode, we left home in the UK last Sunday. Mr Macron has closed the campsites in France but we found Aires to be open. We arrived at a site in Perigueux on Tuesday and was turned away but the Aire was open by the river. Wednesday we arrived at Navarrete in Spain and was again turned away but went twenty miles west and was accepted no problem at all. Arrived here in Cervera del Maestre yesterday afternoon, to sign legal papers with regard to selling our property here and have to say we didn't see any law enforcement officers in the 1400 miles of mainly very very quiet roads. Fingers crossed we shall be feeling the money on Monday and as soon at it clears and is transferred to the UK we will be on our way back to the land of Bury Black Puddings and Blackpool Rock. Might be back for Christmas, happy days.
Pete5996
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Darn, If I'd have known you could have dropped off a few slices on the way down....
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