Another 'Tyre' rant....

  • Thread starter Thread starter Chockswahay
  • Start date Start date
Well I have learnt something this morning.(y)
 
Just had two new front tyres fitted to my Honda CRV by the Honda main dealer.. they never mentioned anything about putting them on the rear..
I never questioned either.. . in almost 50 years of motoring that is the 'way it has always done'.. and it's never led me to having an accident..

right or wrong ?.. I'm not going to debate..

what you don't hear much of these days is tyre rotation to even out the wear..

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GeriactricWanderer said:
That's a bit of a mis-quote.

The correct version is:

You can lead a gift horse to the water but you can't look in it's mouth.

(That one gets the brain cells confused!):)
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Err...I think you are a little confused with that one :confused::confused:
 
ScotJimland said:
Just had two new front tyres fitted to my Honda CRV by the Honda main dealer.. they never mentioned anything about putting them on the rear..
I never questioned either.. . in almost 50 years of motoring that is the 'way it has always done'.. and it's never led to an accident..

right or wrong ?.. I'm not going to debate..

what you don't hear much of these days is tyre rotation to even out the wear..
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I too have had new tyres fitted on the front of all my cars over many years (including on a Peugeot 107 2 years ago) ...... this 'new' information does indeed go against previous thinking but the facts are evident and beyond dispute.

As for accidents, I disagree, I think many accidents have been caused by this...... it's probably just that no one has ever really thought about it :eek:
 
ScotJimland said:
I should have said .. 'me having an accident'.. now edited..

not disputing the latest thinking..
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Ah....LOL I haven't had an accident resulting from the 'tyre positions' either (or maybe I have ???) :confused::eek:
 
Just to add to the fun - here is an extract from the Continental Tyre Data Book 2014 (Operating Instructions).

Mounting new tyres on the rear axle
It is recommended that all tyres used on the vehicle be replaced at the same time. If this is not the case, at least all the tyres on the same axle should be replaced at the same time.
If only one axle set of tyres is replaced, it is recommended to fit the newest tyres on the rear axle. This may complicate tyre rotation and caution is advised if the tyres differ in terms of state of wear, size, design and Speed Index, for example. In this case it is strongly recommended that a trained tyre specialist be consulted.
The point of the above mounting recommendation is to increase traction on the rear axle. This is important in avoiding oversteer and loss of vehicle stability on slippery surfaces.

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JeanLuc said:
strongly recommended that a trained tyre specialist be consulted
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That's the bit that made me rant in the first place! I asked a 'specialist' and discovered I know more than he does :eek:
 
When I sold my Mk 2 Escort and moved onto a fwd Astra back in the 70's, the only way to get the back end out, was to put the most worn tyres on the back, and employ a bit of "lift off" oversteer, used to play havoc with my mother's shopping :LOL:
On a more serious note, I think some of the confusion arises from folks thinking fwd's need the grip at the front for traction purposes and how "improved" the steering feels when you've got new rubber on the front.
 
You will always get people saying that they have done this that and the other, against best advice for years and nothing bad has ever happened.
This is probably true but one day it just might and IMO it's best to have the right equipment in the right places giving you and yours the best chance of surviving it.
I managed for the Michelin Group, whose training in tyre technology is probably the best in the world.
If the man from Michelin says fit the best tyres on the rear axle, you would be daft not to take his advice.
You are not the only one on the road, you might survive serious oversteer but the people you hit in that car coming the other way, may not.


:cooler:
 
An interesting and surprising thread. Interesting advice from Michelin, Continental and Tyresafe, I didn't previously know about this but if I ever have to replace just two tyres they will certainly go on the back. Surprising that some may choose to ignore the best advice from the industry and insist they know better. Well that's their choice, good luck to them. I just hope they never have an accident that might have been avoided.
 
I fully understand that fitting new tyres on the front and old on the rear with just the legal tread depth would be foolish..
Ideally they should be fitted as a full set, but in the real world the front generally wear faster than the rear so they need replaced sooner.. but what if the rear have say 6mm?

Just checked mine, new on front 8mm .. rear about 5.5 mm .. is that going to be an issue? I calculate that by the time the rears are worn out, I will need a full set..

A new tyre starts out life with about 8mm of thread depth.. at what depth does it start to affect road holding ?

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chockswahay said:
Don't take my word for it, just Google it and you will see.....
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I wouldn't take too much notice of that, after all you can google 'moon landings' and you will find people who will tell you it was all a hoax! :)

Google is responsible for spreading all sorts of nonsense.

Go with what the tyre and vehicle manufacturers tell you. They will have spent millions of £/$ on research and it is NOT in their interests to give you duff gen.

Also if you had an accident and the insurance company could prove that you deliberately fitted tyres against the manufacturers instructions, they would have a good case for not paying out.

KH
 
Once the tread wear indicators are almost level with the tread face the tyres need replacing.

That should be around 2 mm of tread across the whole tread face.

If any part of the tread face is less than this you should replace the tyre and this should be done in pairs.


:cooler:
 
ScotJimland said:
I fully understand that fitting new tyres on the front and old on the rear with just the legal tread depth would be foolish..
Ideally they should be fitted as a full set, but in the real world the front generally wear faster than the rear so they need replaced sooner.. but what if the rear have say 6mm?

Just checked mine, new on front 8mm .. rear about 5.5 mm .. is that going to be an issue? I calculate that by the time the rears are worn out, I will need a full set..

A new tyre starts out life with about 8mm of thread depth.. at what depth does it start to affect road holding ?
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The document linked to on post #17 on the first page gives a good reason why you shouldn't leave the oldest tyres on the rear axle, because of the risk of an age related failure.

Of course if you drive gently everywhere you may never notice the benefit of having the best tyres on the rear. The "been doing it all my life and never had a problem" argument. But you never know when something unexpected might happen.
 
DevonBeekeeper said:
The document linked to on post #17 on the first page gives a good reason why you shouldn't leave the oldest tyres on the rear axle, because of the risk of an age related failure.
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yes, I already read that.

that wasn't my question..

is a tyre with 5.5mm of tread going to have less road holding than one with 8mm thread ?
 
ScotJimland said:
I fully understand that fitting new tyres on the front and old on the rear with just the legal tread depth would be foolish..
Ideally they should be fitted as a full set, but in the real world the front generally wear faster than the rear so they need replaced sooner.. but what if the rear have say 6mm?

Just checked mine, new on front 8mm .. rear about 5.5 mm .. is that going to be an issue? I calculate that by the time the rears are worn out, I will need a full set..

A new tyre starts out life with about 8mm of thread depth.. at what depth does it start to affect road holding ?
Click to expand...


I can't imagine that the depths you mention are going to make much difference.. But why not go with the best to the rear rule anyway.. It means that all wheels and tyres will be off.. They will be inspected in the open and can be re-balanced if required. It should only cost a few quid extra at the most..

Anyone advocating the front wheels having best tread .. or that they can hold it on a bend with the back end stepping out etc.. Is surely having a laugh and not being serious.
This post has to underline why fun is such a good forum.. A life saving post that everyone learns from.

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sdc77 said:
I can't imagine that the depths you mention are going to make much difference.. But why not go with the best to the rear rule anyway.. It means that all wheels and tyres will be off.. They will be inspected in the open and can be re-balanced if required. It should only cost a few quid extra at the most..
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as I said earlier.. they were fitted by the Honda dealer at the annual service and MOT ..
.. .. I trusted their judgment... perhaps ill placed ..
 
ScotJimland said:
as I said earlier.. they were fitted by the Honda dealer at the annual service and MOT ..
.. .. I trusted their judgment... perhaps ill placed ..
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This is back to where my 'rant' started............ no real faith in the dealers.....:mad:
 
In practice, I find that the rear tyres on the motorhome wear fastest so I rotate them diagonally once the difference is significant (say 2mm less on the rear than the front). On my Subaru, they wear more or less evenly all round but I still rotate them diagonally after about 12,000 miles.
 
Photo4x4 said:
I wouldn't take too much notice of that, after all you can google 'moon landings' and you will find people who will tell you it was all a hoax! :)

Google is responsible for spreading all sorts of nonsense.

Go with what the tyre and vehicle manufacturers tell you. They will have spent millions of £/$ on research and it is NOT in their interests to give you duff gen.

Also if you had an accident and the insurance company could prove that you deliberately fitted tyres against the manufacturers instructions, they would have a good case for not paying out.

KH
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I'm confused by your post ..... the facts are plain and simple. Are you suggesting we ignore them?
 
Tootles said:
It may be my brother, Tyretles, he has a place in Scotland. (y)
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He plays a different instrument to you though, doesn't he @Tootles ....... :D

image.jpg

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houdini said:
He plays a different instrument to you though, doesn't he @Tootles ....... :D

View attachment 57365
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Yes, but you can see the family resemblance.......:) He wasn't always like that. Some years ago, he bought a car from Chiperfields Circus. Within 100yds of driving off, the bonnet, boot, doors and wings fell off. Then, there was an almighty BANG, and the rest fell apart. He tried to get his money back, but they refused, and so he took them to the Small Clowns Court, and won. The judge awarded him a red nose, tube of lippy, bowler hat and a squirty flower. :):)
 
chockswahay said:
I'm confused by your post ..... the facts are plain and simple. Are you suggesting we ignore them?
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I spend most of my life confused! :)

I'm just suggesting being careful of what you find on the internet. If you do enough googling you'll find whatever answer you want.

I think you should do what the manufacturers say. If they say put the new tyres on the rear then that is what you should do - even if you find someone on Google saying the opposite.

KH
 
Tootles said:
Yes, but you can see the family resemblance.......:) He wasn't always like that. Some years ago, he bought a car from Chiperfields Circus. Within 100yds of driving off, the bonnet, boot, doors and wings fell off. Then, there was an almighty BANG, and the rest fell apart. He tried to get his money back, but they refused, and so he took them to the Small Clowns Court, :rofl: :rofl: and won. The judge awarded him a red nose, tube of lippy, bowler hat and a squirty flower. :):)
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:rofl: :rofl: Oh you do make me laugh!
 
JeanLuc said:
On my Subaru, they wear more or less evenly all round but I still rotate them diagonally after about 12,000 miles.
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A bit OT, but probably worth a mention:

On a Subaru, if it's a permanent 4 wheel drive model, it is particularly important to keep the tyre wear even on all 4 wheels. If the rolling radius gets at all out of step between the front & the rear axle, you get wind up in the centre coupling between front & rear when used on tarmac. It's not designed to slip, so that loss of traction at either end doesn't lead to one end just spinning uselessly. The effect of mismatched tyres is a lot of strain on the centre coupling leading to very early failure - as my colleague found out to her (expensive) cost.
 
Photo4x4 said:
I spend most of my life confused! :)

I'm just suggesting being careful of what you find on the internet. If you do enough googling you'll find whatever answer you want.

I think you should do what the manufacturers say. If they say put the new tyres on the rear then that is what you should do - even if you find someone on Google saying the opposite.

KH
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I think you missed my point, I do believe the manufacturers, that is why I started this rant in the first place. My reference to 'Googling' was to help point the 'doubters' in the right direction :rolleyes:. Nearly every reference on the 'net does actually support the 'best grip on the back' :)

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