An article in the Daily Express states that drivers of electric vans will be able to increase weight from 3.50t to 4.25t. On a standard car licence!

[joe and sue]

It is because they didn't want to remove licence priveleges from people who were already driving these vehicles. It would have caused major economic disruption to overnight ban practically every driver of 3500kg to 7500kg vehicles.

Maybe they thought that DVLA could not cope with the additional workload, poor overworked little dears

 

[cmcardle75]

Maybe they thought that DVLA could not cope with the additional workload, poor overworked little dears

Not just DVLA. Several million people would have required driving tests overnight.

 

[Jamesh]

Yes. Clearly the vehicle would have to be rated at 4250kg, brakes, tyres, wheel and all. The manufacturers are quite used to doing this. Most 3500kg are already available in an uprated version. My van can be bought in a 3500kg or 4500kg version.

My mwb transit minibus is rated at 4.1t, have the axle, brakes, wheels been changed I doubt it!

 

[Ivory55]

My mwb transit minibus is rated at 4.1t, have the axle, brakes, wheels been changed I doubt it!

Sometimes stuff is over made to save changing stuff but also they do put larger front discs on and different tyres etc on for higher rated vans

 

[DDJC]

I very much doubt any judges (or magistrates more likely) will be guffawing. There are already such rules in places. For example, a 'B' licence may drive a minibus (UK only) up to 17 seats limited to 3500kg. However, that 3500kg can be extended by up to 750kg to cover equipment required for disabled access. This was done for obvious social reasons, as they did not want to give this exemption when it could only cover able bodied people, as it isn't remotely practical to have an accessible 17 seater minibus weighing only 3500kg.

In the electric vehicle case, there is an obvious public benefit in ensuring that the largest electric and diesel vans that can be driven on a 'B' licence have similar payloads. Otherwise, people will hold on to driving dirty diesels, as the electric vans of the same weight will have unrealistically low loading capacity.

Didn't know about disabled access equipment weight increase. Interesting, thanks.

However, it doesn't alter my argument, which is that, notwithstanding your disabled access weight upgrade, the legal argument for driving licence weight categories is about weight, not payload. It cannot be practical to create a new weight sub-category for EVs. It would be challenged at every turn. So the easiest, most obvious, logical solution is to increase the B licence weight by 500kg to allow for the increase in weight for batteries.

Which means I can get my bus plated up to 3850kilos and Mrs DDJC doesn't have to do a test. Wuhoo! Bring it on!

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[joe and sue]

Didn't know about disabled access equipment weight increase. Interesting, thanks.

However, it doesn't alter my argument, which is that, notwithstanding your disabled access weight upgrade, the legal argument for driving licence weight categories is about weight, not payload. It cannot be practical to create a new weight sub-category for EVs. It would be challenged at every turn. So the easiest, most obvious, logical solution is to increase the B licence weight by 500kg to allow for the increase in weight for batteries.

Which means I can get my bus plated up to 3850kilos and Mrs DDJC doesn't have to do a test. Wuhoo! Bring it on!

Does this mean that as Sue is entitled to Motability allowance, we can downplate our 4.5 tonne to 4.250 and no C1 needed ??
Serious question as this would make a huge difference to us, and the loss of 250 kg payload not a problem as we usually run at 4 tonne gross weight
Joe

 

[The Wino]

Didn't know about disabled access equipment weight increase. Interesting, thanks.

However, it doesn't alter my argument, which is that, notwithstanding your disabled access weight upgrade, the legal argument for driving licence weight categories is about weight, not payload. It cannot be practical to create a new weight sub-category for EVs. It would be challenged at every turn. So the easiest, most obvious, logical solution is to increase the B licence weight by 500kg to allow for the increase in weight for batteries.

Which means I can get my bus plated up to 3850kilos and Mrs DDJC doesn't have to do a test. Wuhoo! Bring it on!

But how would that help to acheive what the government want. Presumably most agree that the increase in weight allowance is to allow ev,s compete on payload despite carrying around heavy batteries. If they allow conventionally powered vehicles the same increase the payload will be higher again than ev,s!. It would be like an arms race! If they do allow an increase in weight for ev,s I think it most unlikely to be allowed for other vehicles and that it's pretty likely to be pure ev vehicles which require large battery banks rather than hybrids. It would also make sense ( so it probably won't happen) for the vehicles to be required to have a certain level of driver aid tech to help make them safer and maybe mandatory speed limiters.

 

[DDJC]

But how would that help to acheive what the government want. Presumably most agree that the increase in weight allowance is to allow ev,s compete on payload despite carrying around heavy batteries. If they allow conventionally powered vehicles the same increase the payload will be higher again than ev,s!. It would be like an arms race! If they do allow an increase in weight for ev,s I think it most unlikely to be allowed for other vehicles and that it's pretty likely to be pure ev vehicles which require large battery banks rather than hybrids. It would also make sense ( so it probably won't happen) for the vehicles to be required to have a certain level of driver aid tech to help make them safer and maybe mandatory speed limiters.

Not hugely bothered about what the Government want. My argument is about fairness, common sense and ease of implementation. Every MH in UK today (I'm pretty sure) is derv or petrol. Once the EV MH rolls out, will it be covered by such a rule change? We don't have a payload that compares with a cargo van. My usable weight is about 620 kilos which includes its tubby driver and untubby pax. If we were having payload as the deciding factor for B class licences, our existing derv MH would be 4200 kilos to gain parity with an equivalent EV cargo van.

It is probably a can of worms too far for the government to be sensible about this. And you can bet that motor caravans will be excluded from any new legislation. Time for an MP letter, methinks.

 

[Jamesh]

Does this mean that as Sue is entitled to Motability allowance, we can downplate our 4.5 tonne to 4.250 and no C1 needed ??
Serious question as this would make a huge difference to us, and the loss of 250 kg payload not a problem as we usually run at 4 tonne gross weight
Joe

I'm guessing you would need to prove that you have a 500kg wheelchair lift attached to the back of your van to gain the entitlement?

 

[mofurt]

I normally treat articles from the DE (especially it's "OMG we're facing armageddon" weather reports about snow flurries in the Highlands) as being on a par with The Sun, except without the journalistic rigour the latter is noted for.

So, having a dig around, there was various reporting about this back in 2018.

Gross vehicle weight increased for electric vans

Drivers who hold a standard car licence will now be able to drive a van weighing up to 4.25 tonnes if said van is an alternative fuel vehicle

www.parkers.co.uk

Government increase weight limit for electric vans | Vans Direct

Electric vans or alternatively fuelled commercial vehicles (AFCVs) weighing up to 4.25-tonnes can now be driven by drivers with a standard category B UK driving licence, up from the 3.5-tonne limit for normal vans.

www.vansdirect.co.uk

Back then, it was a five hour training course to allow you to use your B license.
A more official source:-

Changes to licence requirements for alternatively fuelled vehicles

Guidance to drivers on changes in the law which allow category B licence holders to drive alternatively fuelled vehicles (AFVs) up to 4.25 tonnes.

www.gov.uk

Note that this was a temporary thing for five years - so expiring next year unless extended. I wonder if the DE article was about the extension, or just reporting old news? Anyway, it looks like this has been with us for nearly four years, so it would appear that it was possible to implement

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[The Wino]

I normally treat articles from the DE (especially it's "OMG we're facing armageddon" weather reports about snow flurries in the Highlands) as being on a par with The Sun, except without the journalistic rigour the latter is noted for.

So, having a dig around, there was various reporting about this back in 2018.

Gross vehicle weight increased for electric vans

Drivers who hold a standard car licence will now be able to drive a van weighing up to 4.25 tonnes if said van is an alternative fuel vehicle

www.parkers.co.uk

Government increase weight limit for electric vans | Vans Direct

Electric vans or alternatively fuelled commercial vehicles (AFCVs) weighing up to 4.25-tonnes can now be driven by drivers with a standard category B UK driving licence, up from the 3.5-tonne limit for normal vans.

www.vansdirect.co.uk

Back then, it was a five hour training course to allow you to use your B license.
A more official source:-

Changes to licence requirements for alternatively fuelled vehicles

Guidance to drivers on changes in the law which allow category B licence holders to drive alternatively fuelled vehicles (AFVs) up to 4.25 tonnes.

www.gov.uk

Note that this was a temporary thing for five years - so expiring next year unless extended. I wonder if the DE article was about the extension, or just reporting old news? Anyway, it looks like this has been with us for nearly four years, so it would appear that it was possible to implement

Well spotted. Looks like it's been possible to introduce it for alternative power only then. I suppose it depends how they extended it ev,s have changed a lot over the past 5 years there must be a lot more now on the road. Hopefully they will make any extension lengthy no-one is going to buy an expensive ev one the basis of their licence being ok for 5 years.

 

[WildBunch]

There is no logic to our current Licencing laws. I lost my C1 licence at 70 due to a heath risk. Thus limited to 3500 Kg. But I am still able to tow a trailer of unspecified weight. With my van that would give a max permitted weight of 5500 Kg, including the trailer.

 

[Pausim]

Shame the Daily Express doesn’t follow Motorhomefun, they could have reported on this in 2018 when we started discussing the issue.

Govt change to licences to allow driving heavier vans ...

Interesting ...

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

 

[The Wino]

There is no logic to our current Licencing laws. I lost my C1 licence at 70 due to a heath risk. Thus limited to 3500 Kg. But I am still able to tow a trailer of unspecified weight. With my van that would give a max permitted weight of 5500 Kg, including the trailer.

You're quite right but presumably it's a loophole rather than a deliberate action. If there's ever an accident due to health issues involving a trailer and vehicle combination at the weight limit it will no doubt quickly change.

 

[Johnen]

The argument would be guffawed out of court, by any remotely sensible judge

Where can we find any sensible judges???

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[Jamesh]

There is no logic to our current Licencing laws. I lost my C1 licence at 70 due to a heath risk. Thus limited to 3500 Kg. But I am still able to tow a trailer of unspecified weight. With my van that would give a max permitted weight of 5500 Kg, including the trailer.

I used to tug a 1300kg dart 556(utter rubbish beats a majestic 196 any day) with a V70 ok tow car, but the wife beasty XC90 stood on the drive due to the B+E rule! I should have got round to doing b+e but for the sake of perhaps 4 weeks a year wasnt worth it...

 

[cmcardle75]

I'm guessing you would need to prove that you have a 500kg wheelchair lift attached to the back of your van to gain the entitlement?

The exemption is specifically for minibuses that would otherwise require a D1 licence. It won't apply to motorhomes.

 

[Don Campbell]

Surely, if you can drive a vehicle of a certain weight because it is electric... why can't you drive the same electric vehicle if it is converted? Anyway, they would have to apply the same criteria for motorhomes if the weight increase is to allow for batteries - once electric Motorhomes come onto the market.

Rodney where did you ever get the idea that you can apply logic to a ministerial decision?

 

[Rodneyplonker]

Rodney where did you ever get the idea that you can apply logic to a ministerial decision?

Fortunately, that was not my flawed logic! I merely copied and pasted it from an internet article! But I get your drift!

 

[trevor 87]

Whatever the government do about licences the vehicle itself must be authorised for an equivalent max weight.

Are the electric chassis manufacturers upping the suspensions and braking systems accordingly?

Iveco has for years !! There 3.5 tonne is just a down plated version of there 6.5 tonne one and the new ford transits are also avalible up to I think 6.5 tonne ?

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[Platelet]

There is no logic to our current Licencing laws. I lost my C1 licence at 70 due to a heath risk. Thus limited to 3500 Kg. But I am still able to tow a trailer of unspecified weight. With my van that would give a max permitted weight of 5500 Kg, including the trailer.

I could be wrong but I think that the 3500kgs is the maximum weight of tow vehicle and trailer combined. If your combined maximum weight is 3501 you need a D4 medical.

 

[Ivory55]

I could be wrong but I think that the 3500kgs is the maximum weight of tow vehicle and trailer combined. If your combined maximum weight is 3501 you need a D4 medical.

I thought the same, it was how it was explained to me

 

[Pausim]

I could be wrong but I think that the 3500kgs is the maximum weight of tow vehicle and trailer combined. If your combined maximum weight is 3501 you need a D4 medical.

Not if you have the BE category on your license, this allows 3500kg plus trailer. I believe BE is another of the grandfather rights but unlike C1 you don’t need the D2/D4 procedure to keep it, this allows older caravaners to keep tugging.

 

[Ivory55]

There was loopholes where a 7.5 ton could be downplated to 3.5 but kept the towing weight. This meant it could be up to 12 ton combined, but I thought that they had closed the loopholes.

 

[DDJC]

I could be wrong but I think that the 3500kgs is the maximum weight of tow vehicle and trailer combined. If your combined maximum weight is 3501 you need a D4 medical.

Luckily no.
Even on a standard cat B licence, earned after 1 Jan 97, you can pull a 750 kilo trailer behind a 3500 kilo moho

View or share your driving licence information

Find out what information DVLA holds about your driving licence or create a check code to share your driving record, for example to hire a car

www.gov.uk

Category B - if you passed your test on or after 1 January 1997
You can drive vehicles up to 3,500kg MAM with up to 8 passenger seats (with a trailer up to 750kg).
You can also tow heavier trailers if the total MAM of the vehicle and trailer is not more than 3,500kg.

Category B - if you passed your test before 1 January 1997
You’re allowed to drive a vehicle with MAM of 3,500 kilos and trailer combination up to 8,250kg maximum authorised mass (subject to conditions).

Category BE
You can drive a vehicle with a MAM of 3,500kg with a trailer. The size of the trailer depends on the BE ‘valid from’ date shown on your licence. If the date is:
- before 19 January 2013, you can tow any size trailer within the towing limits of the vehicle
- on or after 19 January 2013, you can tow a trailer with a MAM of up to 3,500kg within the towing limits of the vehicle


I've got an old B and Mrs DDJC has a new BE, so our 500 kilo unbraked trailer trundles happily behind our 3500 motorhome.

You can actually get chapter and verse on what you can drive by going here:

View or share your driving licence information

Find out what information DVLA holds about your driving licence or create a check code to share your driving record, for example to hire a car

www.gov.uk

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[Greenie]

Shouldn’t we petition Westminster to reduce the road tax on 3.5t motorcaravans and increase it on >3.5t if they’re going to change the rules on electric ones?

 

[The Wino]

Shouldn’t we petition Westminster to reduce the road tax on 3.5t motorcaravans and increase it on >3.5t if they’re going to change the rules on electric ones?

Presumably if the weight limit is increased the ved thresholds will be as well although I suspect ved is on its way out and we will be paying a mileage charge instead based of vehicle type and pollution.

 

[DDJC]

Shouldn’t we petition Westminster to reduce the road tax on 3.5t motorcaravans and increase it on >3.5t if they’re going to change the rules on electric ones?

The VED cost is less important compared to the blatantly obvious issue of a motorhome driver not needing to know how to lash down a load, or do all the other haulage stuff that (quite correctly) is required for a delivery or multi-drop driver of a 7.5 ton truck.

There should be an additional category on a licence (by application), that allows for a B licence to drive up to 4/4.5 tons if the vehicle is a motorhome? You could call it category 'MH'.

If the government can make exceptions depending on the addition of disabled access equipment, or the powertrain that drives it, then why not on how the vehicle is used? Most people use their MH less frequently than a delivery driver, doing fewer miles and driving less aggressively. Having to do a full-on 7500kg lorry test for driving a leisure vehicle that is 4000 kilos, is plain stupid.

As a correction to the above post, I do have a C1E, as I once drove bigger vehicles. My 7m MH drives more like a big car than a lorry.

 

[Ivory55]

The VED cost is less important compared to the blatantly obvious issue of a motorhome driver not needing to know how to lash down a load, or do all the other haulage stuff that (quite correctly) is required for a delivery or multi-drop driver of a 7.5 ton truck.

There should be an additional category on a licence (by application), that allows for a B licence to drive up to 4/4.5 tons if the vehicle is a motorhome? You could call it category 'MH'.

If the government can make exceptions depending on the addition of disabled access equipment, or the powertrain that drives it, then why not on how the vehicle is used? Most people use their MH less frequently than a delivery driver, doing fewer miles and driving less aggressively. Having to do a full-on 7500kg lorry test for driving a leisure vehicle that is 4000 kilos, is plain stupid.

As a correction to the above post, I do have a C1E, as I once drove bigger vehicles. My 7m MH drives more like a big car than a lorry.

Is that because it was brought in by the eu that we have that and we are just carrying on. Mind you the government has not got much going on at the minute. Haha

 

[The Wino]

Is that because it was brought in by the eu that we have that and we are just carrying on. Mind you the government has not got much going on at the minute. Haha

When you say brought in by the EU it sounds like an outside body we were at the time part of it. We decided to bring it in when we were part of the EU it wasn't imposed. So unlikely to be suddenly changed.

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