An article in the Daily Express states that drivers of electric vans will be able to increase weight from 3.50t to 4.25t. On a standard car licence!

[Rodneyplonker]

I hope I chose the correct category.

Quote:

"As well as the extension to grant schemes, the Government also announced it will continue to allow drivers holding standard car driving licences to drive electric goods vans at a higher weight limit.

This will allow them to drive a vehicle up to 4.25 tonnes in weight, compared to the 3.5 tonne limit for diesel vans."

 

[acropolis22]

I hope I chose the correct category.

Quote:

"As well as the extension to grant schemes, the Government also announced it will continue to allow drivers holding standard car driving licences to drive electric goods vans at a higher weight limit.

This will allow them to drive a vehicle up to 4.25 tonnes in weight, compared to the 3.5 tonne limit for diesel vans."

It says "goods vans". Does this also apply to motorhomes?

 

[DDJC]

I suppose this is acknowledgement that shifting stuff around with the additional weight of a couple of tons of batteries is going to result in heavier vehicles.

Have to ask, if this can be done by a Minister with a biro, why can't he/she do the same for derv motorhomes?

Perhaps it is time to re-invigorate the discussion with MPs about an increase from 3.5 tons licence to 4 or 5 tons if a motorhome?

 

[Rodneyplonker]

It doesn't specify particularly. However, Don't some categories of motorhomes come under private/light goods? It would be great if that is the case! It would save a lot of hassle for many people... Not an expert though!

 

[Brains]

It is going to have to happen within the next few years.
A standard van has to be able to be driven on a standard licence.

An electric standard van is going to weigh at least a tonne more than the diesel version, hence the weight restriction on a standard licence will need to increase.

They will need to do it across the board, you can't have a situation where you are limited to 3.5t on diesel and 5t on electric, it would be unenforceable.

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[Rodneyplonker]

I suppose this is acknowledgement that shifting stuff around with the additional weight of a couple of tons of batteries is going to result in heavier vehicles.

Have to ask, if this can be done by a Minister with a biro, why can't he/she do the same for derv motorhomes?

Perhaps it is time to re-invigorate the discussion with MPs about an increase from 3.5 tons licence to 4 or 5 tons if a motorhome?

Agree!

 

[royandsharont]

In the past all laws for vehicles have never differentiated on weight re driving licences so I am a little surprised really. Why can you suggest a person is fit to drive 4.25t if electric but not if a petrol or diesel. What would they say if we had hydrogen.

I believe they were looking at increasing the weight for all, which sounds more like in keeping with how the laws are applied.

Next they could be saying you don’t need to apply for your extension at 70 if it’s electric or you don’t need to be accompanied if a learner if it is electric. Not a fair system if it were to happen and whilst I think a Minister may like to do such a thing I think it unlikely without it applying to all.

They have a real problem as it stands with battery weight for commercial vehicles but I wonder what an electric Range Rover would weigh in at.

 

[Rodneyplonker]

Surely, if you can drive a vehicle of a certain weight because it is electric... why can't you drive the same electric vehicle if it is converted? Anyway, they would have to apply the same criteria for motorhomes if the weight increase is to allow for batteries - once electric Motorhomes come onto the market.

 

[Ivory55]

It is going to have to happen within the next few years.
A standard van has to be able to be driven on a standard licence.

An electric standard van is going to weigh at least a tonne more than the diesel version, hence the weight restriction on a standard licence will need to increase.

They will need to do it across the board, you can't have a situation where you are limited to 3.5t on diesel and 5t on electric, it would be unenforceable.

Why ?

 

[nicholsong]

Whatever the government do about licences the vehicle itself must be authorised for an equivalent max weight.

Are the electric chassis manufacturers upping the suspensions and braking systems accordingly?

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[GMLS]

Someone is going to have to start spending a bit more on maintaining and upgrading our bridges me thinks whilst receiving less and less on VED

 

[joe and sue]

It is going to have to happen within the next few years.
A standard van has to be able to be driven on a standard licence.

An electric standard van is going to weigh at least a tonne more than the diesel version, hence the weight restriction on a standard licence will need to increase.

They will need to do it across the board, you can't have a situation where you are limited to 3.5t on diesel and 5t on electric, it would be unenforceable.

And I would think discriminatory and possibly illegal, typical knee jerk reaction to promote EV's

 

[DDJC]

Someone is going to have to start spending a bit more on maintaining and upgrading our bridges me thinks whilst receiving less and less on VED

Aha, you haven't seen the cunning plan yet, have you!

The Government (now or future) can't afford the loss of VED, Fuel Duty and VAT on fuel. Bet anyone a pound to a pinch of pigeon poo that not only will EV exemption go within two years, but that VED will double or probably treble within five years, to compensate for the loss in fuel duty and tax.

If you think about it, it is inevitable.

 

[DDJC]

Why ?

Because a 3.5 ton derv van is obv lighter than a 5 ton electric van. It would be ridiculous to suggest to Mr V Driver that his 3.5 ton licence now permits him to drive a 5 ton van, but only if electric. How is a 5 ton van safer/easier to drive because it is electric? The payload is going to be the same. Are we really saying that just because Mr Driver is driving a green EV pollutionless vehicle, he can go heavier?

The argument would be guffawed out of court, by any remotely sensible judge.

 

[Ivory55]

Because a 3.5 ton derv van is obv lighter than a 5 ton electric van. It would be ridiculous to suggest to Mr V Driver that his 3.5 ton licence now permits him to drive a 5 ton van, but only if electric. How is a 5 ton van safer/easier to drive because it is electric? The payload is going to be the same. Are we really saying that just because Mr Driver is driving a green EV pollutionless vehicle, he can go heavier?

The argument would be guffawed out of court, by any remotely sensible judge.

If it’s a law that’s been passed surely that’s the law or do we just ignore laws that don’t suit us. Seems to be the way now

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[pagey]

Because a 3.5 ton derv van is obv lighter than a 5 ton electric van. It would be ridiculous to suggest to Mr V Driver that his 3.5 ton licence now permits him to drive a 5 ton van, but only if electric. How is a 5 ton van safer/easier to drive because it is electric? The payload is going to be the same. Are we really saying that just because Mr Driver is driving a green EV pollutionless vehicle, he can go heavier?

The argument would be guffawed out of court, by any remotely sensible judge.

in my opinion its nothing to do with safety what has happened here is the government has been told that to have a van with any sort of payload and some sort of sensible mileage its going to need a lot of batteries if they dont put up the gross weight no comapany will want to buy them

 

[SpeedyDux]

Because a 3.5 ton derv van is obv lighter than a 5 ton electric van. It would be ridiculous to suggest to Mr V Driver that his 3.5 ton licence now permits him to drive a 5 ton van, but only if electric. How is a 5 ton van safer/easier to drive because it is electric? The payload is going to be the same. Are we really saying that just because Mr Driver is driving a green EV pollutionless vehicle, he can go heavier?

The argument would be guffawed out of court, by any remotely sensible judge.

Remotely sensible judge ... ummm ... bit of a problem finding one nowadays.

 

[nicholsong]

in my opinion its nothing to do with safety what has happened here is the government has been told that to have a van with any sort of payload and some sort of sensible mileage its going to need a lot of batteries if they dont put up the gross weight no comapany will want to buy them

Well it will be something to do with safety when DVSA refuse to issue a certificate because the tests prove that the heavier van does not satisfy requirements.

 

[pagey]

Well it will be something to do with safety when DVSA refuse to issue a certificate because the tests prove that the heavier van does not satisfy requirements.

explain?

 

[Jamesh]

Well it will be something to do with safety when DVSA refuse to issue a certificate because the tests prove that the heavier van does not satisfy requirements.

But if they are being told by the ministry of transport these are the new rules...who are they to argue!

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[cmcardle75]

The reason to distinguish electric from diesel is so that the maximum size you can drive on a car licence (and presumably without operator licencing) has similar payloads, regardless of fuel source. Just moving all vehicles from 3.5t to 4.25t would still mean the dirty diesels would have greater payload. it's about eliminating the payload advantage for fossil fuelled vehicles.

 

[The Wino]

Why would they change for diesel just because it's increasing for ev,s. The rules don't make sense at the moment letting previous drivers who took an easier test ( no theory test) drive heavier vehicles than new drivers.

 

[mitzimad]

the 3.5 tonne limit was only brought in to harmonise us with europe prior to 97 you got up to 7.5 thats what we should go back to

 

[pappajohn]

Obvious if you think about it
The extra ton or so, including removal of the heavy engine, will be used up by the batteries and motors
The actual payload will stay the same as a diesel van.
I would expect it (4250kg) to be a new driving licence category specifically for electric vans.

 

[nicholsong]

explain?

If you look at my post #10 I queried whether the chassis manufacturers are going to increase the build for chassis for electric, if not then a basic 3500kgvan chassis is unlikely to pass DVSA testing at 4250kg.

Nobody answered my query.

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[pagey]

If you look at my post #10 I queried whether the chassis manufacturers are going to increase the build for chassis for electric, if not then a basic 3500kgvan chassis is unlikely to pass DVSA testing at 4250kg.

Nobody answered my query.

of course they are otherwise the thing would weigh 3500k empty look at an ambulance still a fiat ducato but with bigger brakes wheels tyres and springs and to drive it you need a different licence

 

[cmcardle75]

If you look at my post #10 I queried whether the chassis manufacturers are going to increase the build for chassis for electric, if not then a basic 3500kgvan chassis is unlikely to pass DVSA testing at 4250kg.

Nobody answered my query.

Yes. Clearly the vehicle would have to be rated at 4250kg, brakes, tyres, wheel and all. The manufacturers are quite used to doing this. Most 3500kg are already available in an uprated version. My van can be bought in a 3500kg or 4500kg version.

 

[cmcardle75]

Why would they change for diesel just because it's increasing for ev,s. The rules don't make sense at the moment letting previous drivers who took an easier test ( no theory test) drive heavier vehicles than new drivers.

It is because they didn't want to remove licence priveleges from people who were already driving these vehicles. It would have caused major economic disruption to overnight ban practically every driver of 3500kg to 7500kg vehicles.

 

[cmcardle75]

Because a 3.5 ton derv van is obv lighter than a 5 ton electric van. It would be ridiculous to suggest to Mr V Driver that his 3.5 ton licence now permits him to drive a 5 ton van, but only if electric. How is a 5 ton van safer/easier to drive because it is electric? The payload is going to be the same. Are we really saying that just because Mr Driver is driving a green EV pollutionless vehicle, he can go heavier?

The argument would be guffawed out of court, by any remotely sensible judge.

I very much doubt any judges (or magistrates more likely) will be guffawing. There are already such rules in places. For example, a 'B' licence may drive a minibus (UK only) up to 17 seats limited to 3500kg. However, that 3500kg can be extended by up to 750kg to cover equipment required for disabled access. This was done for obvious social reasons, as they did not want to give this exemption when it could only cover able bodied people, as it isn't remotely practical to have an accessible 17 seater minibus weighing only 3500kg.

In the electric vehicle case, there is an obvious public benefit in ensuring that the largest electric and diesel vans that can be driven on a 'B' licence have similar payloads. Otherwise, people will hold on to driving dirty diesels, as the electric vans of the same weight will have unrealistically low loading capacity.

 

[Wack]

It is going to have to happen within the next few years.
A standard van has to be able to be driven on a standard licence.

An electric standard van is going to weigh at least a tonne more than the diesel version, hence the weight restriction on a standard licence will need to increase.

They will need to do it across the board, you can't have a situation where you are limited to 3.5t on diesel and 5t on electric, it would be unenforceable.

Perhaps they'll have officers with those big ear trumpets , listening as you drive past then pulling you in for a check if it's a diesel

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