Alternative to Ebikes

Wjklewis

Wjklewis

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A couple of friends called today to try our electric bikes, as they had a mind to buy a couple. Unfortunately, one of my friends has had a knee replacement and was unable to handle the bike very well due to the rotation/movement required to get the bike going. That was the main reason for trying our bikes first as they suspected it would be a problem.

I know folk on here have loads of experience and just wondered what sort of alternatives are available. When questioned what they would use the bikes for. The answer that came back was mostly off road, forest paths/tracks but definitely not mountain biking.

If you have any suggestions or even better photos that would be a great help.

Many thanks John
 
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Minxy said:
Also having front suspension for those with hand/wrist/arm/shoulder issues is vital as it reduces the shock when you have bumpy surfaces etc.
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Indeed....and you can also go for a more upright riding style so less weight is on your hands/wrists...look at what many Dutch ride!
Plus... handlebar grips can add a little to the comfort...and if you're on flat handlebars, some bar-ends (highly unfashionable) add to the variety of hand positions you can use....giving variety to the hand positioning. One firm does grips/bar end combos, my wife and I have them....

Ergon GP4 Grips | Merlin Cycles

Buy your Ergon GP4 Grips at Merlin. Free worldwide delivery available on most items!
www.merlincycles.com www.merlincycles.com
 
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Seat to low? Thats the usual cause of knee issues when cycling. Leg should be at almost full extension when pedal is at lowest point.

Also toes on pedals not heels…

PS. Ebikes seem to becoming a most significant fire hazard, too many deaths attributed to fires started during charging. - be careful.
 
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enark said:
Seat to low? Thats the usual cause of knee issues when cycling. Leg should be at almost full extension when pedal is at lowest point.

Also toes on pedals not heels…

PS. Ebikes seem to becoming a most significant fire hazard, too many deaths attributed to fires started during charging. - be careful.
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Sorry to be pedantic...but toes is as bad as heels.....it's really the ball of the foot over the pedal.
 
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DandJ said:
Indeed....and you can also go for a more upright riding style so less weight is on your hands/wrists...look at what many Dutch ride!
Plus... handlebar grips can add a little to the comfort...and if you're on flat handlebars, some bar-ends (highly unfashionable) add to the variety of hand positions you can use....giving variety to the hand positioning. One firm does grips/bar end combos, my wife and I have them....

Ergon GP4 Grips | Merlin Cycles

Buy your Ergon GP4 Grips at Merlin. Free worldwide delivery available on most items!
www.merlincycles.com www.merlincycles.com
Click to expand...
Wow I got the same type off eBay for less than 10% of the cost of those. :oops:

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stevewagner said:
Mine has a Bosch crank motor and moves as soon as you put pressure on the pedal
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Mine too. Shimano hub motor mountain bike. Fabulous piece of kit. It even comes with a Bluteooth app to alter the power delivery!
 
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We got some folding ebikes recently, and have been very pleased with them. They pretty much apply power from the word go. The key is probably to get ones that have torque sensors (so the power depends on how hard you're pressing) rather than cadence sensors (which depend on how fast you're pedalling, and I'm guessing take longer to activate).

E-bikes with suspension can be seriously heavy, though, and you couldn't put two of them on most bike carriers, if that's a relevant issue. Ours, being folders, have 20in wheels but nice large tyres which cope pretty well with different terrain. But, even without suspension, they are about 18kg with the batteries removed, which means that we can't use one of those racks that mount on the rear door of a panel van: they all tend to have a 35kg limit. Ours go on a towbar-mounted rack, or inside, if we have the space!

(Info on our folding bikes here if wanted.)
 
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Some years ago I converted our Halfords Hybrid bikes to electric using a Bafang kit, they came with little 'thumb throttles' to 'enable quick get aways at traffic lights etc' without pedalling.

I suspect technically illegal as you can use the bike using the throttle all the time if you wanted to without pedalling at all.

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enark said:
PS. Ebikes seem to becoming a most significant fire hazard, too many deaths attributed to fires started during charging. - be careful.
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The problem is with cheap Chinese ones rarely hear of a problem with top branded ones.
 
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I've got a commuter bike with suspension forks. It rides rougher than my gravel bike with no suspension. My gravel bike has 50mm tyres that are tubeless, so much lower pressure. Cheap suspension is mainly placebo and weight.
 
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stevewagner said:
Mine has a Bosch crank motor and moves as soon as you put pressure on the pedal
Click to expand...

John Barrett said:
Mine too. Shimano hub motor mountain bike. Fabulous piece of kit. It even comes with a Bluteooth app to alter the power delivery!
Click to expand...
My Specialized crank drive is far better than my Bosh & power delivery can be altered via the app.

Weight comes down to quality, my Specialized has full suspension 70NM motor & 710 watt battery and only weighs 23.5kg, my Scott has a 50NM motor, 400watt battery it's a hardtail has smaller wheels much thinner tyres but weighs a kilo more.
 
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Guigsy said:
Modern mountain bikes are like monster trucks. They are supremely capable. I've got a 150mm enduro bike in the garage that's done most of Bike Park Wales. The problem is that you pretty much have to throw yourself off a cliff to test them. And yet most of the ones you see are being ridden to the shops or never go more off road than National Cycle Route 5.

The last 3 years I've mainly been riding a gravel bike and the mountain bike has been getting dusty. There's far more trails that are interesting and challenging when you've got no suspension. And unlike the full suspension mountain bike, it doesn't feel like a wet noodle on tarmac, so I can actually ride a reasonable distance to get somewhere to find some fun. My gravel bike is easily as capable as my 90s mountain bikes. Technology and design has just moved on so much. Mostly due to the wide tyres and the better frame materials and geometry.

Unless you're planning on getting muddy or wearing body armour, don't bother looking at full suspension bikes. It's overkill. Even a hybrid with 40mm tyres will do way more than most people want.
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It depends what type you go for. I've got an Orbea Rise which weighs about 19kgs with a Shimano EP8 motor so relatively light compared to a lot of the more powerful Bosch motor ebikes. The OH has a Liv Embolden Yamaha motor which is a bit heavier but we go everywhere on them and often don't even switch the power on as they can both be ridden like non ebikes comfortably. We've done 40 mile rides on a mix of terrain from stony singletrack to tarmac roads, often without any or with very little power. I do some "proper" mtbing on mine as well on local trails and some trail centres. I love it, so flexible. I'm not suggesting this as the best option to the OP though!
 
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John Barrett said:
Mine too. Shimano hub motor mountain bike. Fabulous piece of kit. It even comes with a Bluteooth app to alter the power delivery!
Click to expand...
This link is to the Voodoo Bizago which is a mid-motor Ebike. Maybe the wrong link? But there are many hub motor and mid motor ebikes to choose from in all price ranges.

Edited as I have now seen your reply
 
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DandJ said:
Excellent......direct from a sweatbox factory in China who have directly copied the hard work/science that Ergon put into their product.
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At the time I didn't even know those type existed and just stumbled on them on eBay so got some to see if they helped my carpal tunnel syndrome which they did.

If Ergon were that bothered I suspect they'd do something about it but as they make a nice bit of profit from those who buy from them at a high price compared to the relatively small number of people who find and buy them on eBay.
 
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Lenny HB said:
I didn't really get that problem either, a friend had both knees replaced a couple of years ago he has an off road e bike and goes out all over the downs I can't keep up with him.
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My friend had a knee replacement and it took a couple of years to get all the movement back before he felt confident to ride a bike.

Maybe it's just a case of seeing a physio and explaining what activities he wants to do, and getting on a program to get that flexibility 🤔

I've had both knees rebuilt, and while walking long distances can be painful, riding the e-bike is a breeze.

I agree with the aforementioned comment about mid-engined e-bikes.

My first e-bike was rear wheel drive and was slow to get going having to apply quite a bit of pressure to the pedals and rotating the crank a couple of times.

My new mid-engined e-bike takes off instantaneously with absolutely minimum pressure required on the pedals.

It might be worth testing some mid-engined e-bikes to see if they are suitable.
 
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PaulW2 said:
I have a Pedibal Navigata.

You can buy it with a twist and go throttle which is authorised for each individual bicycle by the DVSA (you get a certificate with it).
Click to expand...
Beware, although hard to police (and cleverly disguised on their website), officially their type approval is for L1e-A light moped, and means licence, helmet, insurance, VED/tax, MOT etc. is required.

Regulations, legislation and standards

The ACT have put together a series of helpful guides to make sure that retailers are well informed when it comes to selling and servicing e-bikes, including regulations and legislation surrounding the use of e-bikes in the UK.
www.cycleassociation.uk www.cycleassociation.uk

Might as well have a 'proper' moped.

Screenshot_2025-01-05-07-50-19-707.webp


Edit (which might help in OP's case)
* there is an exemption to this for cycles where the assistive power available without pedalling cuts out at 3.7mph (6km/h), which do not need to be type approved. This small start-up or walking assistance helps get the cycle moving which can be beneficial to those who are less able.

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Last edited:
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Wjklewis said:
A couple of friends called today to try our electric bikes, as they had a mind to buy a couple. Unfortunately, one of my friends has had a knee replacement and was unable to handle the bike very well due to the rotation/movement required to get the bike going. That was the main reason for trying our bikes first as they suspected it would be a problem.

I know folk on here have loads of experience and just wondered what sort of alternatives are available. When questioned what they would use the bikes for. The answer that came back was mostly off road, forest paths/tracks but definitely not mountain biking.

If you have any suggestions or even better photos that would be a great help.

Many thanks John
Click to expand...
Tell your friends, I have had both my knees replaced, ( one not a great success) riding a bike is the best exercise they could do, I find riding a bike is easier than walking. It just takes a bit to get used to it.
 
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I met a guy mountain biking in the deepest and muddiest of forest trails. He had lost most of the ligaments in his knee. Had to walk with a crutch (folded in his rucksack). But he could still ride an eMTB and throw it through the berms. He did say he couldn't do jumps anymore though.
 
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Wjklewis said:
A couple of friends called today to try our electric bikes, as they had a mind to buy a couple. Unfortunately, one of my friends has had a knee replacement and was unable to handle the bike very well due to the rotation/movement required to get the bike going. That was the main reason for trying our bikes first as they suspected it would be a problem.

I know folk on here have loads of experience and just wondered what sort of alternatives are available. When questioned what they would use the bikes for. The answer that came back was mostly off road, forest paths/tracks but definitely not mountain biking.

If you have any suggestions or even better photos that would be a great help.

Many thanks John
Click to expand...
Suggest to your friend they buy an exercise bike. Use that to help gain flexing in the knee. They can be picked up cheaply second hand.
Start pedalling with the seat at the top extension. After 5 mins drop the seat a notch. After another five drop it again. 15 mins 2-3 times a day. Bend becomes much easier when the knee is exercised.
After a few days they’ll be able to start on the notch down repeating this process.
Within a few weeks they will be able to pedal way down the seat adjustment.
Good advice to me from a physio after my knee replacement. Got great flex in the knee and cycling is no problem.
 
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Guigsy said:
What sort of ebike was it? Mid motor bikes are far more responsive and require far less starting effort than hub motor bikes.
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Not if you use ‘Start Assist’, I have both types, the mid motor (Bosch) uses a torque sensor which measures how hard I am ‘pressing’ on the pedal, the harder I press the more power it gives me. I also have a rear hub motor eBike with a Hall sensor, this involves a series of magnets on the crank passing a sensor on the bottom bracket, as long as the magnets are travelling past the sensor the motor gives as much power as I have dialled up (mine has five levels of power), Hall sensor bikes don’t care how hard you are pressing on the pedal they just sense the pedal/crank turning.

Like most other hub motor driven bikes my hub motor bike also has a start boost option which powers the bike to 4mph without the need to pedal, this overcomes the initial resistance to get the bike rolling and so it is far easier to start pedalling.

On my bike I just hold down the minus button on the handlebar display, on others it can take the form of a trigger or twist and go throttle.

This type of eBike should not be confused with the type of electrically powered bike that has a hand throttle that enables you to exceed 4mph. Any electrically powered bikes with motor assistance over 4mph built and sold after 2016 needs to be registered to use on public roads, 4mph start assist eBikes do not need to be registered.

For me the mid motor bike is better (although the hub motor is more fun on short rides), I don’t have knee trouble but two of the people that I ride with do, start assist hub motor bikes have kept them riding despite their problems.

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We have two Orbea e-bikes which we have had for around 7 years or so but my wife is not keen anymore and have not been used for the last 3 years. We are both in our latish seventies so have gone for this as an alternative for our 3 month stay in Spain.
IMG_1410.webp
 
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Apacheman said:
Suggest to your friend they buy an exercise bike. Use that to help gain flexing in the knee. They can be picked up cheaply second hand.
Start pedalling with the seat at the top extension. After 5 mins drop the seat a notch. After another five drop it again. 15 mins 2-3 times a day. Bend becomes much easier when the knee is exercised.
After a few days they’ll be able to start on the notch down repeating this process.
Within a few weeks they will be able to pedal way down the seat adjustment.
Good advice to me from a physio after my knee replacement. Got great flex in the knee and cycling is no problem.
Click to expand...
I ride a few thousand km a year. If I cycle with my saddle too low, it'll blow my knee in 15 minutes and I'll be hobbling for days.
 
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Many ebikes have a starting assist. Either a button or a throttle that allows the bike to take off without the need for pedalling. We've found these great for taking off at junctions/traffic lights where you need the initial kick to get across. Also great for hill starts.
 
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I've not ridden a ton of ebikes. But the ones I've been on, the hub motor bikes were very different to the mid motor bikes.

The hub motor bikes felt very all-or-nothing and slower to respond. They use just the movement of your pedals to kick in, but don't actually know how hard you're pushing. They are fine for cruising around, but I don't get on with them too well. My wife has one and she thinks it's great.

The mid motor (Bosch) bikes I've ridden were very different. At low to mid power settings, I could barely perceive them. They measure how hard you're pushing and pretty much instantly add a proportional assistance. It's just like you're much fitter. Cycling in easy mode. It's very natural. On turbo settings, the assistance was much less linear and also drove just as hard through the bottom of each pedal stroke. It's fun and easy to control, but not subtle.

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Palough said:
My friend had a knee replacement and it took a couple of years to get all the movement back before he felt confident to ride a bike.

Maybe it's just a case of seeing a physio and explaining what activities he wants to do, and getting on a program to get that flexibility 🤔

I've had both knees rebuilt, and while walking long distances can be painful, riding the e-bike is a breeze.

I agree with the aforementioned comment about mid-engined e-bikes.

My first e-bike was rear wheel drive and was slow to get going having to apply quite a bit of pressure to the pedals and rotating the crank a couple of times.

My new mid-engined e-bike takes off instantaneously with absolutely minimum pressure required on the pedals.

It might be worth testing some mid-engined e-bikes to see if they are suitable.
Click to expand...
The issue of instantaneous motor response apposed to having to rotate the cranks is a software and sensor issue.
My EMTB has a Bosch motor and has sensors for crank torque and can apply motor power within 20mS of detecting crank torque. It is a better solution to this point of "setting-off" but as the Bosch system is mid-mounted, or better description crank-mounted, the torque sensor is built into the motor. If you were to fit a hub-mounted system you would need to fit a crank torque sensor to achieve instant start.
As above, if you use your local bike shop you will be able to demo various models and choose the on that suits your application.
 
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