Alloys. Did you know?

[Fragle]

We have an IH crafter 6.8m panel van. It comes with alloys on already But because of the long wheelbase it makes the step close to the ground.
On the last trip to France I grounded at least 4 times with minor repairable damage to the electric step. The last grounding was boarding the ferry at Caen. Last one to be loaded loads of crew telling me to just go for it (I refused) ten mins later and a load of planks got us shifted.

Something needs to be done as I can't have that each time.

Option 1 Remove the step.

Option 2 Have van hight increased different springs etc. Very expensive.

Option 3 Change the alloys to a larger wheel.

As I was going to get new tyres at some point and having gone to IH for a repair I noticed they had new vans with 17 inch Black Rhino Warlord alloys with BF Goodridge with the added bonus of lifting the van 40-50mm

Nice alloys new tyres and increased ride height all in.

Something said to me check your insurance or notify them of a change. I'd be going from 16 to 17 inch alloys and a much safer van

To my surprise they class this as a modification to the van with an increase of nearly £100 on premium.

If I do it and don't tell them it's the get out clause for them in a future possible payout. I haven't bought the new stuff yet and to be honest I told them what to do with the increase. Remove the step it is.

But who knew that changing the alloys and not informing them could invalidate your insurance?

 

[Odd job]

Any modification needs to be advised, and any excuse will do for the insurance company

 

[MisterB]

When it comes to renewal time, they might be a bit more amenable...

 

[Mikey RV]

Anything that’s not standard or as it came out the factory is classed as a mod and insurance should be notified. There must be thousands and thousands of cars etc out there that have changed the wheels.

 

[Kannon Fodda]

Consider fitting semi air to the rear suspension. If you have the internal compressor you'll be able to adjust ride height when there is lower clearance.

On my shorter 5.4m PVC just fitting raised the rear by around 50mm giving a much nicer clearance on the rear wheel arches. The van must have been sat on the bump stops all the time. Driving has improved too.

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[AndyPK]

Consider fitting semi air to the rear suspension. If you have the internal compressor you'll be able to adjust ride height when there is lower clearance.

On my shorter 5.4m PVC just fitting raised the rear by around 50mm giving a much nicer clearance on the rear wheel arches. The van must have been sat on the bump stops all the time. Driving has improved too.

Wow - I’m impressed!! Didn’t realise that semi air would improve your driving too!!
Perhaps we should all add it…….?!?

 

[WESTY66]

Anything that’s not standard or as it came out the factory is classed as a mod and insurance should be notified. There must be thousands and thousands of cars etc out there that have changed the wheels.

I don’t get why it’s called a mod if you put a different style same size wheel and tyre as technically you’re not altering the spec? I would say if you put a better (softer compound) tyre on, that’s more of a modification
Blimey nobody drives a motorhome as it come out the factory, I’ve a list as long as your arm

 

[Raul]

We to have a LWB crafter, and you're right being low. Do not remove the step, unless you have a steel guard for the add blue tank and pump, I scraped mine once in soft ground going over a low hill. You can get lifting kit for the front, and airbags in place of the bump stops for the rear. The 17'' wheels won't help you, as you will be dropping in tyre profile to maintain circumference, so it can read the speed within tolerances. On 16'' wheels is already very close to real speed, one reason I will never go to big AT tyres ever.

 

[Guigsy]

Putting larger wheels on is quite likely to clash the wheels against the arches when you turn. Especially if you don't add a lift. It's also going to mean your speedo under-reads. It'll also take a large chunk out of your mpg, and you'll accelerate and brake slower.

If you do change the rims, make sure they are rated for the load. Many alloys suppliers will happily sell you something with the correct bolt pattern and offset, but it ignore that they are supposed to be fit cars and can only take ~800kg per corner.

Putting semi air or sumo springs on the rear, or even uprated leafs would probably be considerably cheaper.

 

[Rob Hammond]

Out of curiosity what sort of price is semi air .

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[Tonks]

We have an IH crafter 6.8m panel van. It comes with alloys on already But because of the long wheelbase it makes the step close to the ground.
On the last trip to France I grounded at least 4 times with minor repairable damage to the electric step. The last grounding was boarding the ferry at Caen. Last one to be loaded loads of crew telling me to just go for it (I refused) ten mins later and a load of planks got us shifted.

Something needs to be done as I can't have that each time.

Option 1 Remove the step.

Option 2 Have van hight increased different springs etc. Very expensive.

Option 3 Change the alloys to a larger wheel.

As I was going to get new tyres at some point and having gone to IH for a repair I noticed they had new vans with 17 inch Black Rhino Warlord alloys with BF Goodridge with the added bonus of lifting the van 40-50mm

Nice alloys new tyres and increased ride height all in.

Something said to me check your insurance or notify them of a change. I'd be going from 16 to 17 inch alloys and a much safer van

To my surprise they class this as a modification to the van with an increase of nearly £100 on premium.

If I do it and don't tell them it's the get out clause for them in a future possible payout. I haven't bought the new stuff yet and to be honest I told them what to do with the increase. Remove the step it is.

But who knew that changing the alloys and not informing them could invalidate your insurance?

Me.
But then I am in 'VW-land' where mods are common and changing pretty much ANYTHING requires notifying the insurers.
It pays to check what they've actually recorded ref what you've told them, as I discovered that they'd listed the adapted and airbrushed bonnet I'd given them details of as 'bonnet decal' on the schedule, so that had to be amended.

 

[Tonks]

If you do change the rims, make sure they are rated for the load. Many alloys suppliers will happily sell you something with the correct bolt pattern and offset, but it ignore that they are supposed to be fit cars and can only take ~800kg per corner.

Definitely this!
I'd had my van about six years when I took the alloys off for refurbishment. At that point I discovered that they weren't sufficiently load rated for my van. The van was sold to me by a HUGE motorhome dealer, so I was especially unimpressed.
It is frightening how many vans are on insufficiently rated wheels and tyres. Even more frightening how many people aren't that bothered about it. I've lost count of the number of times I've replied to threads or commented on posts by people who are putting or planning to put incorrectly rated wheels or tyres on their vans.
To my mind it should be part of the MOT to check wheel and tyre ratings. If my van had a working van interior it would, as a T32, have to have a Class7 test and the tyres would be checked for the correct load rating. Because it's a 'motor caravan' it can be tested as a Class4, and so the tyres aren't checked. To me that seems nuts, and I think wheels as well as tyres should be checked.

 

[TDub49]

We have an IH crafter 6.8m panel van. It comes with alloys on already But because of the long wheelbase it makes the step close to the ground.
On the last trip to France I grounded at least 4 times with minor repairable damage to the electric step. The last grounding was boarding the ferry at Caen. Last one to be loaded loads of crew telling me to just go for it (I refused) ten mins later and a load of planks got us shifted.

Something needs to be done as I can't have that each time.

Option 1 Remove the step.

Option 2 Have van hight increased different springs etc. Very expensive.

Option 3 Change the alloys to a larger wheel.

As I was going to get new tyres at some point and having gone to IH for a repair I noticed they had new vans with 17 inch Black Rhino Warlord alloys with BF Goodridge with the added bonus of lifting the van 40-50mm

Nice alloys new tyres and increased ride height all in.

Something said to me check your insurance or notify them of a change. I'd be going from 16 to 17 inch alloys and a much safer van

To my surprise they class this as a modification to the van with an increase of nearly £100 on premium.

If I do it and don't tell them it's the get out clause for them in a future possible payout. I haven't bought the new stuff yet and to be honest I told them what to do with the increase. Remove the step it is.

But who knew that changing the alloys and not informing them could invalidate your insurance?

If it wasn't on it when it left the factory, it's a modification and most insurance companies expect you to notify them. In your case, I'm guessing that the wheels might be worth a bob or two and hence attractive to the thieving fraternity so they are covering that risk.

 

[Coolcats]

We have an IH crafter 6.8m panel van. It comes with alloys on already But because of the long wheelbase it makes the step close to the ground.
On the last trip to France I grounded at least 4 times with minor repairable damage to the electric step. The last grounding was boarding the ferry at Caen. Last one to be loaded loads of crew telling me to just go for it (I refused) ten mins later and a load of planks got us shifted.

Something needs to be done as I can't have that each time.

Option 1 Remove the step.

Option 2 Have van hight increased different springs etc. Very expensive.

Option 3 Change the alloys to a larger wheel.

As I was going to get new tyres at some point and having gone to IH for a repair I noticed they had new vans with 17 inch Black Rhino Warlord alloys with BF Goodridge with the added bonus of lifting the van 40-50mm

Nice alloys new tyres and increased ride height all in.

Something said to me check your insurance or notify them of a change. I'd be going from 16 to 17 inch alloys and a much safer van

To my surprise they class this as a modification to the van with an increase of nearly £100 on premium.

If I do it and don't tell them it's the get out clause for them in a future possible payout. I haven't bought the new stuff yet and to be honest I told them what to do with the increase. Remove the step it is.

But who knew that changing the alloys and not informing them could invalidate your insurance?

Probably goes back to the days of fitting spacers and Wolf race wheels

 

[DandJ]

If you're correct about the 40 to 50mm lift of the van simply by them fitting 17s...they must be fitting huge tyres...the combination will mean your speedo is out by 12 to 15%...so it'll say your doing 60 and you'll really be doing 65+.

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[DBK]

What profile are the tyres? It might have been fitted with low profile tyres which it wasn't meant to have.

 

[Fragle]

When it comes to renewal time, they might be a bit more amenable...

I will wait and see then

Anything that’s not standard or as it came out the factory is classed as a mod and insurance should be notified. There must be thousands and thousands of cars etc out there that have changed the wheels.

They are now an optional extra at IH motorhomes. I wonder if they tell you that you must declare them to your insurance

Consider fitting semi air to the rear suspension. If you have the internal compressor you'll be able to adjust ride height when there is lower clearance.

On my shorter 5.4m PVC just fitting raised the rear by around 50mm giving a much nicer clearance on the rear wheel arches. The van must have been sat on the bump stops all the time. Driving has improved too.

I would but there is limited space

We to have a LWB crafter, and you're right being low. Do not remove the step, unless you have a steel guard for the add blue tank and pump, I scraped mine once in soft ground going over a low hill. You can get lifting kit for the front, and airbags in place of the bump stops for the rear. The 17'' wheels won't help you, as you will be dropping in tyre profile to maintain circumference, so it can read the speed within tolerances. On 16'' wheels is already very close to real speed, one reason I will never go to big AT tyres ever.

Already checked and the difference with the BF Goodrich and 17inch rim is 40/50mm

Putting larger wheels on is quite likely to clash the wheels against the arches when you turn. Especially if you don't add a lift. It's also going to mean your speedo under-reads. It'll also take a large chunk out of your mpg, and you'll accelerate and brake slower.

If you do change the rims, make sure they are rated for the load. Many alloys suppliers will happily sell you something with the correct bolt pattern and offset, but it ignore that they are supposed to be fit cars and can only take ~800kg per corner.

Putting semi air or sumo springs on the rear, or even uprated leafs would probably be considerably cheaper.

Already checked with Elite tyres 17inch and 254/65r17 is perfect fit. They stated I may have an issue with 18inch rims

Definitely this!
I'd had my van about six years when I took the alloys off for refurbishment. At that point I discovered that they weren't sufficiently load rated for my van. The van was sold to me by a HUGE motorhome dealer, so I was especially unimpressed.
It is frightening how many vans are on insufficiently rated wheels and tyres. Even more frightening how many people aren't that bothered about it. I've lost count of the number of times I've replied to threads or commented on posts by people who are putting or planning to put incorrectly rated wheels or tyres on their vans.
To my mind it should be part of the MOT to check wheel and tyre ratings. If my van had a working van interior it would, as a T32, have to have a Class7 test and the tyres would be checked for the correct load rating. Because it's a 'motor caravan' it can be tested as a Class4, and so the tyres aren't checked. To me that seems nuts, and I think wheels as well as tyres should be checked.

I contacted SV Tech regarding the tyres and rims as we have up plated to 3.9t. They checked them out and confirmed all the ratings are well within what I need.

If you're correct about the 40 to 50mm lift of the van simply by them fitting 17s...they must be fitting huge tyres...the combination will mean your speedo is out by 12 to 15%...so it'll say your doing 60 and you'll really be doing 65+.

I checked the difference between what I have now and another 6.8m sprinter based van at IH Motorhomes with the same spec as mine other than the different wheels and tyres. Tyres are BF Goodrich 245/65r17
Elite Wheels have confirmed the increase is permitted and as my speedo reads 5mph below actual the increase will still be below the real speed

 

[rod_vw]

Fragle you may get advice on wheel / tyre options and load ratings on the Crafter TGE Selfbuild Facebook page.

My own thoughts when specifying my LWB TGE were not to have an electric step fitted for this very reason.

 

[Guigsy]

If your axle centre is roughly 250mm up, you'd need to gain 16% to raise it 40mm. Which gives a 16% longer circumference on the wheel. Which would give a 16% decrease in speedo reading for any given speed.

 

[tonyidle]

If your axle centre is roughly 250mm up, you'd need to gain 16% to raise it 40mm. Which gives a 16% longer circumference on the wheel. Which would give a 16% decrease in speedo reading for any given speed.

Pi has a big effect too - along with 80mm on the diameter.

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[Fragle]

If your axle centre is roughly 250mm up, you'd need to gain 16% to raise it 40mm. Which gives a 16% longer circumference on the wheel. Which would give a 16% decrease in speedo reading for any given speed.

Thanks but those figures are way beyond my limited knowledge.

I spoke to a guy at Elite wheels in Reading who confirmed the alloys and tyres are ok for the van. That they have fitted plenty of these on a 2020 Crafter vans also that they comply with the weight and clearances. He did say I might have an issue with 18inch rims but that would be tyre dependant. SV Tech also found the alloys and tyres whilst I was on the phone and confirmed ok.
As for the speed difference Elite wheels did give me the exact figure the change I think it meant a 3-4mph difference off the top of my head as unfortunately I didn't write it down. It would still be reading below the actual speed so ok I'm told.

The difference in height 40mm+ was the difference between my van and the van on the forecourt with the new wheels and tyres from the floor to the bottom of the step.

As I have to go back soon I might take a measure again before committing. Maybe to the wheel centres would be a better comparison on the height gained

 

[Fragle]

Pi has a big effect too - along with 80mm on the diameter.

There were no pies in the van at the time of measuring

 

[Fragle]

Fragle you may get advice on wheel / tyre options and load ratings on the Crafter TGE Selfbuild Facebook page.

My own thoughts when specifying my LWB TGE were not to have an electric step fitted for this very reason.

Thanks

Yes I've seen a few vans without the step and I know Wildax Sprinter vans when we looked didn't have a step for the very reason we are saying is a problem.
I've also seen on a IH Facebook that the number of people complaining then asking about removing the step.

My main thought is to remove it before it gets wrecked and maybe causes other damage to the van. At least I can then refit it. If we sell.

 

[Guigsy]

Thanks but those figures are way beyond my limited knowledge.

I spoke to a guy at Elite wheels in Reading who confirmed the alloys and tyres are ok for the van. That they have fitted plenty of these on a 2020 Crafter vans also that they comply with the weight and clearances. He did say I might have an issue with 18inch rims but that would be tyre dependant. SV Tech also found the alloys and tyres whilst I was on the phone and confirmed ok.
As for the speed difference Elite wheels did give me the exact figure the change I think it meant a 3-4mph difference off the top of my head as unfortunately I didn't write it down. It would still be reading below the actual speed so ok I'm told.

The difference in height 40mm+ was the difference between my van and the van on the forecourt with the new wheels and tyres from the floor to the bottom of the step.

As I have to go back soon I might take a measure again before committing. Maybe to the wheel centres would be a better comparison on the height gained

I think the reason the wheels still fit, and that the speedo isn't changing that much, is because they aren't that much bigger. I suspect you'll gain nearer 15mm than 40mm.

 

[Raul]

Here is a online calculator, original wheel tyre size for crafter is 205/75/16, and that gives you an over reading of 4% as it is. Fitting the proposed 255/65/17 will lift about 30mm ish at axle, (60mm diameter), but speedo will be out by quite a bit. if your dash displays 60mph , you will be doing a tad over 64mph.
I have 235/65/16 as a winter set and it's just 2mm in circumference smaller. These 205/75/16 and 235/65/16 are homologated by vw. There is tons of space a the back for air bags, unless you got tanks already fitted, it might be a squeeze.
Your choice.

Alloy Wheel & Tyre Fitment Calculator. Offset, Tyre Stretch and Speedo Error | Will They Fit

Alloy Wheel & tyre fitment calculator - it calculates inset, poke, speedo error, tyre stretch and loads more.

www.willtheyfit.com

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[Nirvanauk]

There were no pies in the van at the time of measuring

Are pies left in the van overnight.

 

[Fragle]

Here is a online calculator, original wheel tyre size for crafter is 205/75/16, and that gives you an over reading of 4% as it is. Fitting the proposed 255/65/17 will lift about 30mm ish at axle, (60mm diameter), but speedo will be out by quite a bit. if your dash displays 60mph , you will be doing a tad over 64mph.
I have 235/65/16 as a winter set and it's just 2mm in circumference smaller. These 205/75/16 and 235/65/16 are homologated by vw. There is tons of space a the back for air bags, unless you got tanks already fitted, it might be a squeeze.
Your choice.

Alloy Wheel & Tyre Fitment Calculator. Offset, Tyre Stretch and Speedo Error | Will They Fit

Alloy Wheel & tyre fitment calculator - it calculates inset, poke, speedo error, tyre stretch and loads more.

www.willtheyfit.com

Thanks. That's a good tool to use. For my size it actually gives 18mm rise and 3mph difference.

I know there is room for the air bags and I have fitted them on a previous Adria. It's more to do with the compressor and where to put that. We have limited space as it is. Maybe worth further investigation on where it can be put

 

[Raul]

Thanks. That's a good tool to use. For my size it actually gives 18mm rise and 3mph difference.

I know there is room for the air bags and I have fitted them on a previous Adria. It's more to do with the compressor and where to put that. We have limited space as it is. Maybe worth further investigation on where it can be put

I'm in the same boat height wise, probably I will go for rear bags as I got lots of space, it's the front that I haven't came across something decent. Bilstein do a jack up front kit 40mm but very pricey. Bags are not a issue as I can fit them just buy the kit £370 ish.

 

[buzz1]

Out of curiosity what sort of price is semi air .

If you do your self , semi rear air full kit roughly £ 300–350 with small compressor

 

[Guigsy]

Thanks. That's a good tool to use. For my size it actually gives 18mm rise and 3mph difference.

I know there is room for the air bags and I have fitted them on a previous Adria. It's more to do with the compressor and where to put that. We have limited space as it is. Maybe worth further investigation on where it can be put

I used a micro sized bike pump just velcro strapped to the driver's seat base, where I'd routed the valves. The pressure and volume required for semi air is really low.

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