Alarms - Yes or No

[eddie]

removable steering wheel a better option but you will look a right plum down the pub. when was the last time you or anyone you know had a vehicle stolen. if they really want it they will tow it away alarm blaring..they don't give a flying...

Do you know how many new motorhomes are stolen every year?

 

[Judge Mental]

Do you know how many new motorhomes are stolen every year?

12?

 

[Gromett]

As a fulltimer I have different security requirements. I am not going to be leaving the van in the same place nor is it going to be unattended for any great period of time. Because of this my security needs will probably differ.

If for example I was leaving my vehicle unattended say in storage I would want an alarm with gps and remote notifications.

As I see it there are three things you need to protect against.
1) break ins to steal property,
2) break in to steal the van
3) whole vehicle being lifted (tow truck or flat bed)

My van is only worth maybe £5,000. Probably a lot less as a stolen vehicle. So I concentrate on the first two.

For me physical deterrent/prevention is always going to be better than audible/visual notification during the break in. I therefore concentrated on physical security first. Every door in my van has a high security deadlock fitted. These are always locked except for the sliding door. If I am leaving the van for anything more than just a couple of hours and I don't like the place I am at I will also remove a critical fuse.

I also have a device I will be fitting shortly which is pretty much the same as Jims.
This device

Is a GPS tracker, with geo fencing. Alarm, remote monitoring, remote disable plus more. £20 but you then have to fit it yourself and it will cost you for a sim account.

My next step was when building the van I ensured that the windows would present an easy access point to the van. If they did manage to wiggle in then they would have wiggle back out due to the dead locks.

Finally I leave nothing of value in plain view. My next steps after the alarm will be a lock box over the pedals.

The other thing I do is I am very aware of my surroundings when parking up. The location you park is quite often just as important as the equipment you have fitted.

If I had a £20K+ van then I would certainly be looking at a commercial alarm. I would go with Eddies based purely on reputation but I have also heard a story a long time ago about his fitting methods which I was impressed with. I don't know if it is true though. But it is the main reason I would use him.

@eddievanbitz is this true?
When you are doing an install you keep copious notes on how each alarm was fitted along with diagrams. Cable routing info and sensor location info etc etc. Then if a customer is for example abroad and has a problem you can get the install notes out and advise remotely.

My biggest concern with alarms installed by a company is that if something goes wrong they won't be able to do anything remotely and will always tell me to bring it in. I could install it myself but I don't know all the foibles of motorhome alarm installation so would actually prefer an expert on this. VanBitz I think may be expensive but you do get a high quality install from a reputable dealer.

 

[eddie]

Yes we have extensive notes, secured away of every installation that Van Bitz have ever undertaken. To us it makes sense. Most of the components we use are manufactured for us, in the UK where possible to our own design and drawings to keep as much control on quality as we can.

It does make a difference long term when some one calls up and wants assistance on a system installed 15 years ago. We can normally offer it.

 

[21100]

Having now trawled through the plethora of threads on this very emotive subject, I have just one question.
Has anyone, with a sophisticated alarm system, and I’m thinking more of the Strikeback (No 1 on the thread count so far) and high end Cobra (No 2 on your threads), ever been robbed or unit stolen with the Alarm set?

Over 95% of motorhomes are now stolen either electronically or with the key!

This means that 99 % of alarms and tracking systems that are armed by the vehicle remote control or by the ignition, have less than a 5% chance of activating or giving an alert.

Tracking systems rely on recovery, their success in the past is due to the fact the thief was not expecting there to be one fitted.

"Titanium" Designed to stop the theft in the first place.

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[Judge Mental]

looks like Eddie's got competition!

 

[bellabee]

As a matter of interest, does anyone know the actual number and/or percentage of British motorhomes stolen p.a., either in this country or abroad? I'm just trying to get some perspective on the problem.

 

[DBK]

As a matter of interest, does anyone know the actual number and/or percentage of British motorhomes stolen p.a., either in this country or abroad? I'm just trying to get some perspective on the problem.

That was the OP's original question and not answered yet I think.

 

[21100]

looks like Eddie's got competition!



View attachment 81577

We have no competition. Lol.

 

[eddie]

As a matter of interest, does anyone know the actual number and/or percentage of British motorhomes stolen p.a., either in this country or abroad? I'm just trying to get some perspective on the problem.

Very few modern motorhomes. I don't think that anyone has the actual number.

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[bellabee]

That was the OP's original question and not answered yet I think.

@606060 has newly entered the thread and appears to have some figures relating to thefts. I was hoping that he/she may be able to provide some info.

On another another tack @DBK, have you photoshopped my avtar?

 

[bellabee]

Very few modern motorhomes. I don't think that anyone has the actual number.

Thanks, Eddie. So, maybe this is back to the original post - is this due to the fitting of good alarm systems, or is it that they're not very desirable objects for your average thief to steal?

A second question, (and I'm not trying to make mischief, just get my head round the problem,) are there any figures relating to how many British reg vans are broken into each year?
Do insurance companies collect such figures?

 

[21100]

[QUO

@606060 has newly entered the thread and appears to have some figures relating to thefts. I was hoping that he/she may be able to provide some info.

On another another tack @DBK, have you photoshopped my avtar?

Because the police now class all vehicle crime as one it is hard to get a real understanding of the problem, i can give you numbers on van theft using electronic theft. These are scary !

West Yorkshire Police:

There has been a 91.2% increase in van theft across the force in the last six months. Of those thefts, over 60% are of Ford Transits of models from 2010 or more recent. Most of those Transit thefts (72.8% - or 268 thefts) are by 'unknown' means.

The Met: 58% increase by 'unknown' means.

When they say unknown they mean electronic.

The problem is simple: Most Thatcham alarms including the one we sell operate through the vehicle remote control. ie: press the vehicle key and the door opens and the alarm disarms. Why would you do that if over 95% of vehicles are stolen either with the key or electronic ie cloning or obd theft etc?

 

[DBK]

On another another tack @DBK, have you photoshopped my avtar?

Avatar theft! You need to get an alarm fitted - but no, I took it myself in Spain.

But it might be possible to come up with a sort of guesstimate. If you look at this website: http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/crime/ It shows theft of vehicles was 28 per 10,000 which isn't a massive amount of help as it includes cars. New motorhome registrations in the UK are running at around 10,000 a year but how many motorhomes are their on the road in the UK? A bit of digging suggests 200,000 as provided by our own John and Joan: http://www.motorhome365.com/forum/threads/how-many-motorhomes-in-the-uk.1569/

So if the rate of 28 per 10,000 applied it would be around 600 MHs stolen each year - but I can't believe it is anywhere near that as out of the 28 I suspect at least 27 of them will be cars.

Another factor worth considering is the number of cars stolen has dropped dramatically in recent years as reported here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...rs-stolen-in-the-UK-falls-to-48-year-low.html

You can also do a check on the HJ website and it will give you an idea of risk based on your postcode. It will accept Fiat Ducato as a model but as these are used extensively by tradesfolk they are a popular vehicle to be targeted for break ins. Which is why figures for stolen or broken into vans are probably highly misleading other than perhaps to be able to compare how easy different models are to steal. Baddies will take a van for the tools in the back, they won't steal your MH for your frying pans.

But as I said in a reply much earlier in this thread it very much depends on how you feel about the risk. There IS a risk, difficult to quantify though it is and if this uncertainty keeps you awake then get an alarm fitted. I can live with the risk as I've been robbed from a vehicle twice, once in Jordan and once in the UK and apart from the minor inconvenience at the time I can laugh about it and I wouldn't be overly worried even if someone took my passport and credit cards, though I do take care of those, but as long as I wasn't hurt in the process it would all be sorted out in a week or so depending where you were. If the vehicle was stolen, and I suspect the risk of a RHD vehicle being taken in Europe is slim, then we would just have to find another way home.

But given from the reports I've read here many thefts of MHs happen from outside the owner's home, so where you live is a very big factor I think.

 

[21100]

Thanks, Eddie. So, maybe this is back to the original post - is this due to the fitting of good alarm systems, or is it that they're not very desirable objects for your average thief to steal?

A second question, (and I'm not trying to make mischief, just get my head round the problem,) are there any figures relating to how many British reg vans are broken into each year?
Do insurance companies collect such figures?

I have put on my facebook page 3 motorhomes and 2 caravans this week alone. Obviously not protected by us.

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[21100]

Caravan Guard have reported a 42% increase in Caravan burglary this year.

 

[21100]

Avatar theft! You need to get an alarm fitted - but no, I took it myself in Spain.

But it might be possible to come up with a sort of guesstimate. If you look at this website: http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/crime/ It shows theft of vehicles was 28 per 10,000 which isn't a massive amount of help as it includes cars. New motorhome registrations in the UK are running at around 10,000 a year but how many motorhomes are their on the road in the UK? A bit of digging suggests 200,000 as provided by our own John and Joan: http://www.motorhome365.com/forum/threads/how-many-motorhomes-in-the-uk.1569/

So if the rate of 28 per 10,000 applied it would be around 600 MHs stolen each year - but I can't believe it is anywhere near that as out of the 28 I suspect at least 27 of them will be cars.

Another factor worth considering is the number of cars stolen has dropped dramatically in recent years as reported here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...rs-stolen-in-the-UK-falls-to-48-year-low.html

You can also do a check on the HJ website and it will give you an idea of risk based on your postcode. It will accept Fiat Ducato as a model but as these are used extensively by tradesfolk they are a popular vehicle to be targeted for break ins.

TRACKER warns that falling national car crime figures are misguided
http://www.tracker.co.uk/news/press-releases/tracker-warns-that-falling-national-car-crime-figu/

 

[DBK]

TRACKER warns that falling national car crime figures are misguided
http://www.tracker.co.uk/news/press-releases/tracker-warns-that-falling-national-car-crime-figu/

They would wouldn't they! But I'm not saying there still isn't a risk of thefts from and of vehicles.

And being new here may I suggest using large font like that is a little rude. I'll put it down to a "font malfunction". You also need to check in with the site owner @Jim and get yourself registered as a trader otherwise your recent posts are likely to vanish in the ether fairly soon.

 

[21100]

Avatar theft! You need to get an alarm fitted - but no, I took it myself in Spain.

But it might be possible to come up with a sort of guesstimate. If you look at this website: http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/crime/ It shows theft of vehicles was 28 per 10,000 which isn't a massive amount of help as it includes cars. New motorhome registrations in the UK are running at around 10,000 a year but how many motorhomes are their on the road in the UK? A bit of digging suggests 200,000 as provided by our own John and Joan: http://www.motorhome365.com/forum/threads/how-many-motorhomes-in-the-uk.1569/

So if the rate of 28 per 10,000 applied it would be around 600 MHs stolen each year - but I can't believe it is anywhere near that as out of the 28 I suspect at least 27 of them will be cars.

Another factor worth considering is the number of cars stolen has dropped dramatically in recent years as reported here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...rs-stolen-in-the-UK-falls-to-48-year-low.html

You can also do a check on the HJ website and it will give you an idea of risk based on your postcode. It will accept Fiat Ducato as a model but as these are used extensively by tradesfolk they are a popular vehicle to be targeted for break ins. Which is why figures for stolen or broken into vans are probably highly misleading other than perhaps to be able to compare how easy different models are to steal. Baddies will take a van for the tools in the back, they won't steal your MH for your frying pans.

But as I said in a reply much earlier in this thread it very much depends on how you feel about the risk. There IS a risk, difficult to quantify though it is and if this uncertainty keeps you awake then get an alarm fitted. I can live with the risk as I've been robbed from a vehicle twice, once in Jordan and once in the UK and apart from the minor inconvenience at the time I can laugh about it and I wouldn't be overly worried even if someone took my passport and credit cards, though I do take care of those, but as long as I wasn't hurt in the process it would all be sorted out in a week or so depending where you were. If the vehicle was stolen, and I suspect the risk of a RHD vehicle being taken in Europe is slim, then we would just have to find another way home.

But given from the reports I've read here many thefts of MHs happen from outside the owner's home, so where you live is a very big factor I think.

The problem is not the alarm, its how the alarm is armed and how it immobilises the vehicle. Thieves also have wheels and they travel too.

 

[21100]

They would wouldn't they! But I'm not saying there still isn't a risk of thefts from and of vehicles.

And being new here may I suggest using large font like that is a little rude. I'll put it down to a "font malfunction". You also need to check in with the site owner @Jim and get yourself registered as a trader otherwise your recent posts are likely to vanish in the ether fairly soon.

I copied and pasted it, sorry if you felt it rude.

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[Zigisla]

Knowing that the figures included cars, I originally asked the question on this forum so that I could glee info from just motorhomers. As there are loads and loads of you on this site, I was hoping that I could be better informed as to the success factor of the visual or physical deterrents that higher end alarms have over, either no alarm or cheaper alarms - by cheaper I mean £185 not £39:99 from Amazon bracket, as opposed to £500 - 600+ all signing all dancing ear bleeding, screamin atcha “get the F**k out my van now” ones.

 

[bellabee]

They would wouldn't they! But I'm not saying there still isn't a risk of thefts from and of vehicles.

I think I'm probably of a similar mind to you @DBK . I'd say there's obviously a risk of theft from and of vehicles, but it's a matter of trying to assess how great that risk is.

If the risk is very small - and can be further reduced by taking sensible precautions - eg not parking in dodgy areas, having a dog in the van (and making it obvious that he's there by leaving bowls outside), then is it actually worth having an alarm in a new van? This is a rhetorical question, not a statement of my belief. I haven't made up my mind yet. But, according to Eddie there are very few thefts of new vans, and looking at @606060's facebook page, the motorhomes featuring as stolen do appear to be older vehicles.

I'll just add that we've had an alarm fitted to our new van, and this was a condition for insurance.

 

[eddie]

Having now trawled through the plethora of threads on this very emotive subject, I have just one question.
Has anyone, with a sophisticated alarm system, and I’m thinking more of the Strikeback (No 1 on the thread count so far) and high end Cobra (No 2 on your threads), ever been robbed or unit stolen with the Alarm set?

Just to remind people what the question was?

Commercial vehicles and caravans have little relevance, to the OP

 

[21100]

Knowing that the figures included cars, I originally asked the question on this forum so that I could glee info from just motorhomers. As there are loads and loads of you on this site, I was hoping that I could be better informed as to the success factor of the visual or physical deterrents that higher end alarms have over, either no alarm or cheaper alarms - by cheaper I mean £185 not £39:99 from Amazon bracket, as opposed to £500 - 600+ all signing all dancing ear bleeding, screamin atcha “get the F**k out my van now” ones.

The simplest way to stop them stealing it electronically and wont break the bank, is to fit a hidden cut off switch.

 

[eddie]

according to Eddie there are very few thefts of new vans, and looking at @606060's facebook page, the motorhomes featuring as stolen do appear to be older vehicles.

I'll just add that we've had an alarm fitted to our new van, and this was a condition for insurance.

Older vehicles were a lot easier to steal. I think I posted somewhere in this thread, that in 1999 I broke into and hotwired a motorhome in under 20 seconds for MMM

Companies that sell tracking systems do highlight the doom and gloom

Motorhomes are not stolen for secondary crime purposes normally. They make crap getaway vehicles, they're not much use for ram raiding, and are difficult to sell "no questions asked" and are no use to teenagers for joyriding: No street cred lol

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[21100]

I think I'm probably of a similar mind to you @DBK . I'd say there's obviously a risk of theft from and of vehicles, but it's a matter of trying to assess how great that risk is.

If the risk is very small - and can be further reduced by taking sensible precautions - eg not parking in dodgy areas, having a dog in the van (and making it obvious that he's there by leaving bowls outside), then is it actually worth having an alarm in a new van? This is a rhetorical question, not a statement of my belief. I haven't made up my mind yet. But, according to Eddie there are very few thefts of new vans, and looking at @606060's facebook page, the motorhomes featuring as stolen do appear to be older vehicles.

I'll just add that we've had an alarm fitted to our new van, and this was a condition for insurance.

Thatcham alarms were designed in the 70s when they did work, unfortunately the thief is in 2015.

 

[21100]

Alarms and trackers in there present form, have had there day. There is a new generation of security systems available by lots of different companies, the enfasis being on stopping the theft in the first place.

 

[Zigisla]

Right then.... SOOO how many, with higher end alarms that have all the internal and external bells and whistles, visual deterents etc, have been broken into - not stolen - think weve exhausted that one, when the alarm has been set correctly.

Nothing more nothing less

 

[peterc10]

12?

Eddie the question mark gave it away. Its not what you say that gets your believed its the way that you say it - Barristers' motto

 

[21100]

Right then.... SOOO how many, with higher end alarms that have all the internal and external bells and whistles, visual deterents etc, have been broken into - not stolen - think weve exhausted that one, when the alarm has been set correctly.

Nothing more nothing less

I can only talk about our monitored vehicles, last year we had 3 attempted theft ie: electronic attacks, and 4 vehicles broke into where the alarm sounded and we alerted the customer.

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