Affordable ?

[deleted79651]

Then there should be zero unemployment?

More likely an imbalance between the skills/qualifications of the unemployed [and possibly their geographic location] and the sectors where the 'new' jobs are available. HGV drivers is a good example; the unemployed could retrain, but there will be a gap between the time of the job advert, the shortlisting, the recruitment, the driver training, and the timeslot available for the test itself. And that period may be extended if candidates need to relocate.

Another potential factor is the dreaded 'efficiency saving' where an employer will deliberately run below optimum employment numbers, relying upon overtime and casual staff to meet peaks in demand. In normal times, this can be managed, but COVID has really screwed things up with direct absences and the 'pingdemic' requiring self isolation. And then there is the B word impact on Supply Chains from Europe, in addition to Europe's own problems in restarting post COVID production and deciding whether to bother doing business with UK.

There is an article in the Guardian today with a headline indicating that the withdrawal of furlough financial support could see as many as 1 million jobs in UK disappear and thousands of small businesses go to the wall. The management of the UK economy will need very skilled economic and political management for some time yet, IMO.

Steve

 

[OneAntOfMany]

My motto, want less, suffer less. Why want for new van, get stressed, work like hell for it. The problem is there will always be a newer bigger model. Your new van will just be a beat up old one sooner or later, and scrap in the end.

I could probably afford a nice new van (own business, worked 65hrs this week, grateful for no heart attack this or any week, hope I live long enough to retire) with its 50 shades of grey modern decor, but fortunately when I see a brand new road palace or a 15 year old American RV, it's the RV that appeals. Less stuff, less stress.

 

[The Wino]

More likely an imbalance between the skills/qualifications of the unemployed [and possibly their geographic location] and the sectors where the 'new' jobs are available. HGV drivers is a good example; the unemployed could retrain, but there will be a gap between the time of the job advert, the shortlisting, the recruitment, the driver training, and the timeslot available for the test itself. And that period may be extended if candidates need to relocate.

Another potential factor is the dreaded 'efficiency saving' where an employer will deliberately run below optimum employment numbers, relying upon overtime and casual staff to meet peaks in demand. In normal times, this can be managed, but COVID has really screwed things up with direct absences and the 'pingdemic' requiring self isolation. And then there is the B word impact on Supply Chains from Europe, in addition to Europe's own problems in restarting post COVID production and deciding whether to bother doing business with UK.

There is an article in the Guardian today with a headline indicating that the withdrawal of furlough financial support could see as many as 1 million jobs in UK disappear and thousands of small businesses go to the wall. The management of the UK economy will need very skilled economic and political management for some time yet, IMO.

Steve

I can't see that happening. I'm 61 and most of my uni friends retired just before or during covid or are now making plans to. Also a lot of the busineses likely to fail will do so due to acumulated debts if theres an opportunity in the market they will soon be replaced.

 

[deleted79651]

I can't see that happening. I'm 61 and most of my uni friends retired just before or during covid or are now making plans to. Also a lot of the busineses likely to fail will do so due to acumulated debts if theres an opportunity in the market they will soon be replaced.

The article suggests otherwise, and includes an LSE Study of the problem.

Employment Threat over COVID Financial Support

Steve

 

[Hirsch]

More likely an imbalance between the skills/qualifications of the unemployed [and possibly their geographic location] and the sectors where the 'new' jobs are available. HGV drivers is a good example; the unemployed could retrain, but there will be a gap between the time of the job advert, the shortlisting, the recruitment, the driver training, and the timeslot available for the test itself. And that period may be extended if candidates need to relocate.

Another potential factor is the dreaded 'efficiency saving' where an employer will deliberately run below optimum employment numbers, relying upon overtime and casual staff to meet peaks in demand. In normal times, this can be managed, but COVID has really screwed things up with direct absences and the 'pingdemic' requiring self isolation. And then there is the B word impact on Supply Chains from Europe, in addition to Europe's own problems in restarting post COVID production and deciding whether to bother doing business with UK.

There is an article in the Guardian today with a headline indicating that the withdrawal of furlough financial support could see as many as 1 million jobs in UK disappear and thousands of small businesses go to the wall. The management of the UK economy will need very skilled economic and political management for some time yet, IMO.

Steve

Oh dear

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[The Wino]

The article suggests otherwise, and includes an LSE Study of the problem.

Employment Threat over COVID Financial Support

Steve

But you have to laugh at the TUC suggesting permanent reductions in the working week presumably without a proportional reduction in pay when some industies already have real shortages it would be madness. I think we're going to find out soon I think theres enough demand for staff to soak up a large number of available workers.

 

[dosser]

just my observation many ex police firemen and civil servants etc

Once you pay 14% of your wages into your pension like I did you are in titled to your pension.Ex Firefighter...

 

[Quantox]

Indeed paying in about 13% of their respective salary for 30 years and also 12% NI. So at the end a pension that has been paid for in the region of £150000 for a constable so at the end a lump sum and a monthly income. How many others 30 or 40 years ago gave up 13% of salary for pension plus Income tax and NI from day one starting a new job and still trying to make ends meet over the years with ,mortgage rates around 15%. At the end of the tunnel it comes together to enable the recipient to decide what to spend it on. Many needed to pay off mortgages, ex partners and the like but yes motorhomes can be bought

Exactly this but also making a lot of money for others and enjoying a smaller (not Cameron sized) spin-off bonus for myself. Mind you that 15% mortgage rate really hurt.

Cheers

Colin

 

[Gillym]

How do people afford to buy new/nearly new motorhomes ?

We have a 2012 Hymer that we were lucky to able to buy outright (just). But I was looking at Frankia 640 motorhomes and realised they are way out of our budget to get anything newer than what we have at present, meaning we would probably need 30 or 40k.

Equity release. No children so I'm spending everything I can!

 

[gus-lopez]

But you have to laugh at the TUC suggesting permanent reductions in the working week presumably without a proportional reduction in pay

But that is what they were promising in governments 40+ years ago. 2 days aweek for 5 days money. More leisure time than you would know what to do with .What happened to that ?
The French managed it ? The Uk it was just pipe dreams ,smoke & mirrors,talk with no substance.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Coolcats]

Once you pay 14% of your wages into your pension like I did you are in titled to your pension.Ex Firefighter...

Anyone who understands that pensions such as yours are not a government hand out won’t begrudge public sector pensions. As mentioned before our forefathers had some insight and the social benefit of a pension such as these both to individual and wider society should not be underestimated….enjoy your hard won pension you earn it, as you say it was part of your wages. (Just to add I do not have a ‘government pension’)

 

[Silver-Fox]

Anyone who understands that pensions such as yours are not a government hand out won’t begrudge public sector pensions. As mentioned before our forefathers had some insight and the social benefit of a pension such as these both to individual and wider society should not be underestimated….enjoy your hard won pension you earn it, as you say it was part of your wages. (Just to add I do not have a ‘government pension’)

I wonder what the cost would of been to get the same benefits in the private sector.

Just interested

 

[stevewagner]

A large number of motorhomers are those benefiting from goverment pensions

S

A large number of motorhomers are those benefiting from goverment pensions

How do you know that?

 

[Coolcats]

But you have to laugh at the TUC suggesting permanent reductions in the working week presumably without a proportional reduction in pay when some industies already have real shortages it would be madness. I think we're going to find out soon I think theres enough demand for staff to soak up a large number of available workers.

But then again research has shown a shorter working week people are more productive so either 4 day week or 37.5 hours day appears to be optimal. Shorter hours per day or fewer days per week are not found to be so productive according to research.

 

[Coolcats]

I wonder what the cost would of been to get the same benefits in the private sector.

Just interested

Interesting thought but some in the private sector did have similar final salary schemes, but like the public sector the schemes were closed. Both types of schemes have independent management of the pensions whose funds (people’s personal cash) are invested in stocks properties and business’s ( I believe centre parks have pension fund investment ) so it’s not the government paying public sector pensions or those who had a good private sector final salaries pension benefits but how the saving have been invested across the investment portfolios

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[gus-lopez]

I wonder what the cost would of been to get the same benefits in the private sector.

Just interested

In the private sector the companies actually had to invest the money. unlike the original gov. ones which were just paid from the general pot. If the private sector had done this it would be called a ponzi scheme & fraudulent

Interesting thought but some in the private sector did have similar final salary schemes,

Yes but they actually invested the receipts.

 

[10tenmen]

The truth of the public sector pension schemes such as police, fire service, NHS etc, these are all paid out of the current budget paid by the government and local council tax payers so no investment at all.
The current pension arrangements are actually better for all except current workers who now have to work longer for smaller benefits. The individual services are actually better off as they are getting more money in and paying out later and for a shorter period of time.

 

[EuroTrotters]

Some people are very wealthy I guess.

Some people borrow big money.

I was left no inheritance. Made Millions in GP. Spent most of it paying Taxes and emplying Staff, vehciel fleets, property commercial property rentals. Now I have a couple of small business with small overheads.

Someone I know has been left a big estate with her sister. Probabely will net Ten Million each.

You can buy a few nice motorhomes with that.

 

[deleted79651]

The truth of the public sector pension schemes such as police, fire service, NHS etc, these are all paid out of the current budget paid by the government and local council tax payers so no investment at all.
The current pension arrangements are actually better for all except current workers who now have to work longer for smaller benefits. The individual services are actually better off as they are getting more money in and paying out later and for a shorter period of time.

Are you sure? I have public sector pensions from 3 separate local authority & 3rd Sector employers and they all employ Investment Managers and are required to report on the Scheme's sustainability [every 3 years IIRC] and the plan to address any shortfall between the Pension Scheme Liabilities and its Pool of Assets. Employees also contribute towards the Public Sector Pension Scheme each month via salary deductions and are also able to transfer other Pension Scheme Funds' benefits into the Local Government Pension Scheme ['LGPS'], as well as making Additional Voluntary Contributions ['AVCs']. Tax relief is allowed on the salary deductions and the AVCs because it involves a Pension Scheme, and to be a Pension Scheme rather than a Budget, it must have Investment Funds, Managers and comply with the law for Pension Schemes. So I doubt the veracity of your 'the truth of the public sector pension schemes ...' statement.

Steve

 

[Coolcats]

In the private sector the companies actually had to invest the money. unlike the original gov. ones which were just paid from the general pot. If the private sector had done this it would be called a ponzi scheme & fraudulent

Yes but they actually invested the receipts.

So did other public organisations, whilst I am not going to search each industry one such former government Business is the Post Office here is a <Broken link removed> this plan was in place before the post office was spun off and privatised I suspect if you look at British Gas, National Grid, BT and other former national industries you will find such accounts, there are probably the same for Police, NHS, Teachers and local authorities. I suspect the drive to close Defined benefit pensions was driven by cost savings by the private sector and then the public sector had to follow.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[10tenmen]

Are you sure? I have public sector pensions from 3 separate local authority & 3rd Sector employers and they all employ Investment Managers and are required to report on the Scheme's sustainability [every 3 years IIRC] and the plan to address any shortfall between the Pension Scheme Liabilities and its Pool of Assets. Employees also contribute towards the Public Sector Pension Scheme each month via salary deductions and are also able to transfer other Pension Scheme Funds' benefits into the Local Government Pension Scheme ['LGPS'], as well as making Additional Voluntary Contributions ['AVCs']. Tax relief is allowed on the salary deductions and the AVCs because it involves a Pension Scheme, and to be a Pension Scheme rather than a Budget, it must have Investment Funds, Managers and comply with the law for Pension Schemes. So I doubt the veracity of your 'the truth of the public sector pension schemes ...' statement.

Steve

Yes I’m absolutely positive and as such your veracity comment is wrong see below.
The main difference between defined benefit (DB) pension schemes in the public and private sectors lies in the funding arrangements.
Most private sector DB schemes are funded, meaning that contributions from employees and employers are paid into a fund, which is invested, and from which the cost of pension benefits is met. To help ensure they have sufficient assets to pay out pensions when they are due, they are required to conduct regular valuations and are subject to funding requirements overseen by the Pensions Regulator.26
Most of the main public service pension schemes - the exception is the Local Government Pension Scheme (LGPS) - are unfunded. They operate on a Pay as You Go (PAYG) basis.

 

[10tenmen]

Many public sector pensions are ‘unfunded’ schemes – that is, there is no central fund, and they are paid for only by the taxpayer. The pensions of teachers, firefighters, NHS workers, the police and the armed forces all fall into this category. This means it’s not possible to transfer from this kind of pension into a DC scheme.

 

[Coolcats]

Many public sector pensions are ‘unfunded’ schemes – that is, there is no central fund, and they are paid for only by the taxpayer. The pensions of teachers, firefighters, NHS workers, the police and the armed forces all fall into this category. This means it’s not possible to transfer from this kind of pension into a DC scheme.

Interesting to see its a mixed bag, but have to say even for some where the government may be paying pensions directly, the government will also have an investment portfolio...so who knows its all funny money and as long as people can retire well, have a decent retirement and MoHo happy days

 

[olley]

Wife was running her own little Hair and Beauty shop and until covid, and had no intention of retiring anytime soon despite being in receipt of the old age pension. I was still doing commercial plumbing and fitting the odd kitchen after I retired, sil father is 80 and a fulltime taxi driver since retiring at 65 from 35 years of tanker driving. Some of us just enjoy a bit of work.

 

[glenn2926]

The truth of the public sector pension schemes such as police, fire service, NHS etc, these are all paid out of the current budget paid by the government and local council tax payers so no investment at all.
The current pension arrangements are actually better for all except current workers who now have to work longer for smaller benefits. The individual services are actually better off as they are getting more money in and paying out later and for a shorter period of time.

They were never allowed to invest, against the rules apparently. I do remember people laughing at our very poor (public sector) pensions in the eighties when private pensions were huge due to investment. Suddenly they stopped laughing and started moaning about how much better our (public sector) pensions were than theirs. Well guys, what goes around comes around.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[deleted79651]

Many public sector pensions are ‘unfunded’ schemes – that is, there is no central fund, and they are paid for only by the taxpayer. The pensions of teachers, firefighters, NHS workers, the police and the armed forces all fall into this category. This means it’s not possible to transfer from this kind of pension into a DC scheme.

That is patently wrong. They are not paid for by the taxpayer because employees make contributions themselves. If there is no Central Fund, then why are Investment Managers appointed to manage Investment Funds, which according to you, do not exist? Why do the [lack of] Funds report on the Liabilities & Assets of the Fund after each actuarial valuation?

Steve

 

[Puddleduck]

Let me explain . You are in a job where you are able to retire after 25 years but can stay on to 30 years as it enhances the pension by a large sum . Fair enough
Why then do you want to 'retire' taking the 25% lump sum & pension & then find youself another job?
Why not just stay in the one you had?

Perhaps the job you had is no longer the job you enjoyed 25 years ago. Extra income in 5 years does not always mean you are willing to go through hell for the extra - if you even survive the 5 years.

I have had two jobs I loved doing and looked forward to going to work everyday. In both cases there was a take over and the job I loved became mired in office politics and backbiting rather than everyone working towards a common goal. I was glad to leave in both cases. In both cases I was in a middle to senior management role but after the takeover several layers of management above me were imposed and I found getting any decision far more cumbersome - before I either made a decision or just needed to ask my own line manager and he would either make the decision or ask the board directly. After takeover it appeared that even changing the brand of loo paper needed to be passed up the management command line.

In the first job we had a group session every two weeks (more or less often if required) where any issues were raised and dealt with. It could be absolutely anything from as minor to the tea rota and which type of biscuit should be bought to how to do something on the computer. The only rules were that there should be nothing personal raised and no bickering. So if Mary wanted to know how to do something on a spreadsheet she would ask at the meeting and anyone who knew would be able to show her. After the changes if Mary wanted to know how to do something no-one would tell her as it would mean Mary might have a toe hold on the promotion ladder. I just hated working in that sort of atmosphere.

Martin changed from 5 days a week to 3 to 2 before he retired (and had a heart attack the week before retirement). He did like his job and still offers advice when they call him but we have better things to do than give our time to other people. Also when we looked at the pension pot we found we could draw down as much as we were earning without eating into the capital so why continue to work? If things had changed then there was always the possibility of part time work but that was very much a fall back measure.

 

[gus-lopez]

That is patently wrong. They are not paid for by the taxpayer because employees make contributions themselves. If there is no Central Fund, then why are Investment Managers appointed to manage Investment Funds, which according to you, do not exist? Why do the [lack of] Funds report on the Liabilities & Assets of the Fund after each actuarial valuation?

Steve

What 10tenmen & I also stated was correct.IN the last few years these schemes have been modified or have been completely altered & have had to change to actual invested schemes rather than funded from the general pot. But this is all fairly recent..

 

[10tenmen]

That is patently wrong. They are not paid for by the taxpayer because employees make contributions themselves. If there is no Central Fund, then why are Investment Managers appointed to manage Investment Funds, which according to you, do not exist? Why do the [lack of] Funds report on the Liabilities & Assets of the Fund after each actuarial valuation?

Steve

Steve are you being deliberately obtuse, what bit of the government pensions website is hard to understand
Broken Link Removed
To make it easier for you to grasp the police pension is NOT invested anywhere. It’s underwritten by the government there isn’t any investment managers because it’s NOT Invested, the members pay their contributions each month which goes back into the running costs of the service and NOT invested.
For instance any Police service gets a budget from the government and money from the local council which comes from the rates that we each pay, some of this is detailed for the police/fire service.
we are not at risk of stock market fluctuations or crashes, a police officer today will retire at 60-65 not mid 50s as before thereby paying more in and taking less out.

 

[deleted79651]

Steve are you being deliberately obtuse, what bit of the government pensions website is hard to understand
Broken Link Removed
To make it easier for you to grasp the police pension is NOT invested anywhere. It’s underwritten by the government there isn’t any investment managers because it’s NOT Invested, the members pay their contributions each month which goes back into the running costs of the service and NOT invested.
For instance any Police service gets a budget from the government and money from the local council which comes from the rates that we each pay, some of this is detailed for the police/fire service.
we are not at risk of stock market fluctuations or crashes, a police officer today will retire at 60-65 not mid 50s as before thereby paying more in and taking less out.

I am not being obtuse, that is insulting. You started your posts by stating that public sector pensions are unfunded, and are met by the annual Budget. You then said that the taxpayer funds them, ignoring my examples of the LGPS and the members' own contributions to the Funds that Investment Managers are contracted to manage and advise on.

Let's just agree to differ. I don;t need a patronising 'to make it easier forme to understand' because the errors you have made suggest that your understanding is flawed and/or incomplete.

Steve

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}