Advantages of fully installed vs removable motorhome gas setup

[Swamp]

Hi,
I’m thinking about refillable gas for the new MH and have read lots of posts on here on the subject.
I certainly have a much better understanding of options but have one remaining question:
As far as I understand, refillable gas options fall into two categories- Fully installed with a gas fill point somewhere on the van, or removable where you have to lift out the empty cylinder for refilling.
Other than the obvious extra cost of the fully installed setup, what are the pros and cons of either option? I have heard that some filling stations don’t like people filling removable gas cylinders? We plan to use the van both in the Uk and Europe so any advantages in either area?
Many thanks

 

[oldiesontour]

Well said

 

[Lenny HB]

Not hearsay at all as you can clearly see from what has been said by others already who have been refused, it is a rather ingenuous comment to make as it is basically calling them liars.

I have an external filler and I have been refused, they said they don't fill bottles, I said it was a tank and they filled me. That was in Portugal.

 

[kev54]

Not hearsay at all as you can clearly see from what has been said by others already who have been refused, it is a rather ingenuous comment to make as it is basically calling them liars.

We had in-locker fillers and did indeed have some occasions when we were refused due to their location. I eventually fitted the fillers externally and actually purchased new filler inlets - small square one rather than the standard large round one I already had, as it was easier to find a suitable location for the smaller one - thus I actually spent a bit more dosh to do it so justifying the cost never came into it otherwise I'd have used the original filler inlet.

If you want to risk being refused filling due to not having an external filler inlet that's up to you but I'd much rather be able to do it without a problem when I want to and thus far since having an external filler we've never been refused once in the last 8 years.

I have been checked on roughly 1 in 3 refill visits to know if my refill point is on the outside, because they would refuse if I had to open the door - in Netherlands, Belgium, Germany, France, Spain, Portugal. That’s not hearsay, it’s my experience.

 

[Don Campbell]

Our only consideration when we decided to fit an underslung tank was more storage space which is a bonus, but as some have said you have to leave it behind when you sell the van. However with the external filler we have never had a problem with filling stations. It's very much an individual decision.

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[VXman]

I think the 'difficulties' of getting a re-fill are hearsay, used by folk who want to justify their added expense of a GasLow (type) solution.

Not hearsay - I have had refusal even with my external fill point. I also had an assistant at my local Shell run out to stop me - until they saw I had gone to the fill point and then they smiled, nodded and walked away. A few others on here have also said so.

 

[bigtwin]

Not hearsay - I have had refusal even with my external fill point. I also had an assistant at my local Shell run out to stop me - until they saw I had gone to the fill point and then they smiled, nodded and walked away. A few others on here have also said so.

But some folks just don’t want to believe; it’s even worse on FB.

Ian

 

[Minxy]

In the UK it is only propane, some European countries have a mixture depending on the season. I believe Portugal is propane only too.

Yep, that is correct, Spain can be up to 65% Butane. Most countries the percentage of Butane varies with time of year.

I had a Google apparently UK lpg is min 90% propane.

Good news is that we've had no further issues with the gas and we thus haven't frozen to death (sorry to disappoint some funsters ), thank you to all those who offered suggestions on the issue especially Basildog.

 

[Lenny HB]

I had a Google apparently UK lpg is min 90% propane.

Normally 95 to 100% Portugal is the same. I always fill up in UK before a trip and try to avoid filling up in France due to the high oily residues in French gas. After filling up & using French gas it has been the only times my gas filters have had oil in them.

 

[bigtree]

Good news is that we've had no further issues with the gas and we thus haven't frozen to death (sorry to disappoint some funsters

I think it’s more than some Funsters that will be disappointed.

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[mikeg40]

I fitted gaslo, 2 11kg, when I got my van 7 years ago and it's been the best 'mod' I've done - paid for itself, great convenience and no issues. however if I was doing it today, I'd go for an underslung tank and use the gas locker for storage!! I've no issues with payload and never really considered removable, refillabvle cylinders

 

[Brian Thompson]

Hi,
I’m thinking about refillable gas for the new MH and have read lots of posts on here on the subject.
I certainly have a much better understanding of options but have one remaining question:
As far as I understand, refillable gas options fall into two categories- Fully installed with a gas fill point somewhere on the van, or removable where you have to lift out the empty cylinder for refilling.
Other than the obvious extra cost of the fully installed setup, what are the pros and cons of either option? I have heard that some filling stations don’t like people filling removable gas cylinders? We plan to use the van both in the Uk and Europe so any advantages in either area?
Many thanks

We have one fixed installed refillable and one Calor This covers all bases We only use the Calor as a back up .I found on our travels lots of garages no longer do LPG . As a result i always phone ahead to check availability as the LPG apps aren't always updated.

 

[Zoobec]

Personally I went for fully installed underslung system which I considered expensive.
Did not want the hassle for lifting cylinders in and out and much more chance of being refused a refill.

Yep, we did the same. Means we don’t have to lose space for a gas locker, too.

 

[knokinonabit]

Hi,
I’m thinking about refillable gas for the new MH and have read lots of posts on here on the subject.
I certainly have a much better understanding of options but have one remaining question:
As far as I understand, refillable gas options fall into two categories- Fully installed with a gas fill point somewhere on the van, or removable where you have to lift out the empty cylinder for refilling.
Other than the obvious extra cost of the fully installed setup, what are the pros and cons of either option? I have heard that some filling stations don’t like people filling removable gas cylinders? We plan to use the van both in the Uk and Europe so any advantages in either area?
Many thanks

Slightly off piste, but maybe relevant, what motorhome are you wanting the gas cylinders for, as I see on your profile that you are "awaiting delivery" ?
Just being nosey

 

[Rugbybull]

Hi,

I'd also be interested in knowing the answer to Kev 54's question in message #54. Having scoured the Herefordshire countryside for a Flogas dealer with a 6kg (and then being charged £49.57 when we did eventually find one!), I'm now looking at refillable for at least one of our bottles. Our local caravan dealer is pushing the Safefill option over Gaslow (due to cost) but looking at the map on Safefill's own website, there don't seem to be many options across the channel. From what I'm reading on their website, this may be in recognition of the fact "the (LPG) industry has had concerns about people illegally filling rented cylinders" which presumably would apply to removable Gaslow cylinders as well. So we may be looking at an external filler point. If we were to fit one of these, I'm assuming that the connection to the LPG pump would be the same, regardless of whether we go for Safefill or Gaslow? Apologies if this is a naive question!

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[TrudeandDall]

Hi,

I'd also be interested in knowing the answer to Kev 54's question in message #54. Having scoured the Herefordshire countryside for a Flogas dealer with a 6kg (and then being charged £49.57 when we did eventually find one!), I'm now looking at refillable for at least one of our bottles. Our local caravan dealer is pushing the Safefill option over Gaslow (due to cost) but looking at the map on Safefill's own website, there don't seem to be many options across the channel. From what I'm reading on their website, this may be in recognition of the fact "the (LPG) industry has had concerns about people illegally filling rented cylinders" which presumably would apply to removable Gaslow cylinders as well. So we may be looking at an external filler point. If we were to fit one of these, I'm assuming that the connection to the LPG pump would be the same, regardless of whether we go for Safefill or Gaslow? Apologies if this is a naive question!

I worked as a safety advisor in the UK petrol supply industry and have a van with refillable gas. Just to recap on the requirements etc. ( And yes I know some people do circumnavigate the requirements - but that does not make their activity lawful) A lot of filling stations will not allow the filling of gas cylinders that are carried loose to the LPG pump, even if they are constructed to be refillable. This is due to the fact that it is unlawful for the lpg site to refill rented (not constructed to be refilled by anybody other than the gas company that own some them) bottles such as calor or flogas and training the forecourt attendants in bottle recognition is often not viable. In France it is pretty much a blanket ban on anything that is not permanently installed in the vehicle and fitted with an external fill point.
As far as I am aware, Safefill bottles have a single connection point that is used with either a pigtail connected as the outlet to supply gas to the van OR an adaptor to allow refilling - but not both. Which means you can not permanently fit a Safefill bottle with an external fillpoint. It may be possible to have an external fillpoint and change the hoses over when filling at the bottle, but I am not sure as I have a Gaslow system.
Gaslow, Alugas and Gaslight bottles have two connection points, an outlet for the pigtail and and a separate inlet for refilling. Which means you can permanently fit an external fillpoint.
So in my mind if you want a refillable gas system with an external fillpoint, then Safefill is not the way to go.

 

[Lenny HB]

I worked as a safety advisor in the UK petrol supply industry and have a van with refillable gas. Just to recap on the requirements etc. ( And yes I know some people do circumnavigate the requirements - but that does not make their activity lawful) A lot of filling stations will not allow the filling of gas cylinders that are carried loose to the LPG pump, even if they are constructed to be refillable. This is due to the fact that it is unlawful for the lpg site to refill rented (not constructed to be refilled by anybody other than the gas company that own some them) bottles such as calor or flogas and training the forecourt attendants in bottle recognition is often not viable. In France it is pretty much a blanket ban on anything that is not permanently installed in the vehicle and fitted with an external fill point.
As far as I am aware, Safefill bottles have a single connection point that is used with either a pigtail connected as the outlet to supply gas to the van OR an adaptor to allow refilling - but not both. Which means you can not permanently fit a Safefill bottle with an external fillpoint. It may be possible to have an external fillpoint and change the hoses over when filling at the bottle, but I am not sure as I have a Gaslow system.
Gaslow, Alugas and Gaslight bottles have two connection points, an outlet for the pigtail and and a separate inlet for refilling. Which means you can permanently fit an external fillpoint.
So in my mind if you want a refillable gas system with an external fillpoint, then Safefill is not the way to go.

To add to that it is illegal for garages to fill gas bottles/tanks for habitation use in Italy, Spain and I think Portugal. Lucky for us most garages will let you fill if you have an external fill point. I've only been refused twice.

 

[Collmec1]

An old work colleague of mine never fought beaurocracy head on, he used to go round it. He used Safefil bottles in his caravan and to get round the 'you can't fill that here! problem he fitted an external filling point. He clamped the filling point to his towbar and ran the hose through the boot floor. When a bottle needed filling he connected to the hose in his car boot, ready for filling. Then at the filling station he fitted the filling hose to his EXTERNAL filling point ( and he has had assistants come out and check). Then gone in and paid, then gone in the boot and shut the valve on the bottle before driving off. No hassle.

 

[Basildog]

An old work colleague of mine never fought beaurocracy head on, he used to go round it. He used Safefil bottles in his caravan and to get round the 'you can't fill that here! problem he fitted an external filling point. He clamped the filling point to his towbar and ran the hose through the boot floor. When a bottle needed filling he connected to the hose in his car boot, ready for filling. Then at the filling station he fitted the filling hose to his EXTERNAL filling point ( and he has had assistants come out and check). Then gone in and paid, then gone in the boot and shut the valve on the bottle before driving off. No hassle.

That’s why we check what’s connected to the filling point

 

[Collmec1]

That’s why we check what’s connected to the filling

That’s why we check what’s connected to the filling point

But how often, once they saw he was using an external filling point he was left alone. That was in England and Europe. That was my point, he was never refused a fill-up and in the cases where somebody came out to check, he was never asked to show what was at the other end of the hose.

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[TrudeandDall]

some people do circumnavigate the requirements - but that does not make their activity lawful)

What Charlie is doing is proper due diligence for his company.

 

[Minxy]

I think it’s more than some Funsters that will be disappointed.

At least I'm popular!

 

[bigtree]

At least I'm popular!

As popular as a fart in a lift.

 

[Minxy]

As popular as a fart in a lift.

... But my farts smell of beautiful perfume 'cause I is sooooo sweet!