Advantages of fully installed vs removable motorhome gas setup

[Swamp]

Hi,
I’m thinking about refillable gas for the new MH and have read lots of posts on here on the subject.
I certainly have a much better understanding of options but have one remaining question:
As far as I understand, refillable gas options fall into two categories- Fully installed with a gas fill point somewhere on the van, or removable where you have to lift out the empty cylinder for refilling.
Other than the obvious extra cost of the fully installed setup, what are the pros and cons of either option? I have heard that some filling stations don’t like people filling removable gas cylinders? We plan to use the van both in the Uk and Europe so any advantages in either area?
Many thanks

 

[berni109]

Personally I went for fully installed underslung system which I considered expensive.
Did not want the hassle for lifting cylinders in and out and much more chance of being refused a refill.

 

[Orion]

I installed 2x 11kg Alugas cylinders with the fill point in the skirt of the Moho. Alugas are lighter than steel cylinders and help with payload if it’s an issue.

 

[Spriddler]

All refillables (except SafeFill) have dedicated filler ports fixed on the body or in a locker. Non need for them to be removed or disconnected and they can be refilled/topped up at any time, not just when empty.

 

[RV-AL]

I went for fitted bottles with an external filler point. My thinking was I didn’t really want the gas locker for anything else and if there was ever a problem with getting LGP at petrol stations (which I think is unlikely) I could revert to using bottles. I was also slightly concerned about proving that an underslung tank was actually off for loading on Eurotunnel or ferries.

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[LithiumConvert]

If you have room for two 11 Kg Safefill (or equivelent) bottles then the simple option is to go for two of those. Two full 11Kg bottles has been enough for us on every trip up to four weeks for the last 8 years. (so never needed to use a filling station other than the local Autogas station at 87p per litre - and they fill the bottles for me)

I find it no hassle to lift the lighter Safefill bottles out of the gas locker. And they use the same connector as Calor Propane if I ever need to go back to Calor. (which has not happenned yet). It was also dead easy to put the Calor back in when we changed the van.)

I have used Morrisons once in 8 years - just to confirm I can do it myself if I ever need to.

 

[Hettie's Crew]

One thing to consider is how much capacity do you really need for how you use your van. We fitted two 11kg Alugas but come the time to renew we will only be fitting one. They’re refillable and have quite accurate gauges so we can just top up when needed.
If you go to remote places where you can’t get gas then have more capacity but we generally travel around France.

 

[starquake]

And it's also worth considering that Flogas do a 11kg now if your locker fits their dimensions, so you could go one Flogas (swapable) for about £70 first bottle and £38 refill and use Alugas or antoher refillable bottle for your 2nd bottle and only fall back to the more expensive gas when the LPG tanks empty. But 11kg Flogas should last as long as your other tank!

 

[VXman]

I can't see any downside of an external filler point other than cost. Mine for the Gaslow bottles was less than £100 and simple self fit.

Advantage is that some garages do not like you filling gas bottles. Officially LPG in a garage should be for LPG powered vehicles and some state that. Getting a bottle out draws attention to yourself.

I will say this too - as I always do on threads like this. I don't see the need for more than one bottle. What's the point when you can just fill it up when it gets low. If moneys not object then fair enough - get as many as you can fit but personally I have one Gaslow 11KG and I carry a small 6KG Calor just in case I should ever accidentally run out - which I haven't in 3 years and 25,000 miles of travelling.

Gaslow R67 11kg Refillable Cylinder 1 with Level Gauge

The Gaslow R67 11kg Refillable Cylinder 1 is especially designed to meet the French R67 Gas Tank Standards. Gaslow have always held the view that the Gaslow Bottles are considered as "Cylinders" and therefore they are manfacturered to the cylinder standard EN1442:2006. Gaslow were not just alone...

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Gaslow White Filling Kit with 1.5m Fill Hose

The Gaslow Remote Filler Kits are supplied with all the necessary fixing screws ready for mounting to the side of your motorhome or caravan. Connection to the UK LPG pump is made via the bayonet fitting. (Also suitable for Holland). Other adapters are sold separately to enable filling throughout...

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[LithiumConvert]

I don't see the need for more than one bottle. What's the point when you can just fill it up when it gets low. If moneys not object then fair enough - get as many as you can fit but personally I have one Gaslow 11KG and I carry a small 6KG Calor just in case

So two bottles carried, with no saving in weight or convenience.

Better to carry two Safefill.

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[Funnymunny]

You will find some places will not fill removable bottles. Certainly in Portugal if you have not got a fixed filling point then most garages will not let you fill. Not long back myself and a mate went to fill up I was ok with a fixed filling point but his didn't have an outside filling point it was inside by the bottles, the attendant checked and refused him so he had to go off and drill a hole to fit his filling point and change his pipes and went back next day and filled no problem.
Fit a permanent outside filling point and you can forget it and fill no problems

 

[TrudeandDall]

Hi,
I’m thinking about refillable gas for the new MH and have read lots of posts on here on the subject.
I certainly have a much better understanding of options but have one remaining question:
As far as I understand, refillable gas options fall into two categories- Fully installed with a gas fill point somewhere on the van, or removable where you have to lift out the empty cylinder for refilling.
Other than the obvious extra cost of the fully installed setup, what are the pros and cons of either option? I have heard that some filling stations don’t like people filling removable gas cylinders? We plan to use the van both in the Uk and Europe so any advantages in either area?
Many thanks

As you intend to travel in Europe, it is a no brainer to have a fitted bottle or tank with an external fill point. Trying to fill a bottle that needs removed is asking for problems.
One 11kg bottle is all you need as you refill whenever you want to - not when you have run the bottle dry. The trick is to forget the "calor" bottle mentality of running one dry and then changing over to a second one.

 

[Brains]

I'd go for the refillables with external fill point.

Many places will not permit the filling of bottles, or the opening of locker doors to fill.

Technically, in most of Europe (including the UK) LPG for vehicles is taxed higher than LPG for cooking/heating.
So really a vehicle fuel station should not be selling you LPG.
However with an external filler point, if anyone asks, your engine runs on LPG (as well as a bit of diesel )

If you are not sure, do what many of us have done and fit the biggest refillable bottle you can, and have the smallest Calor bottle you can find as a back up.
(And ideally make sure the calor bottle is compatible with your BBQ!)

 

[VXman]

So two bottles carried, with no saving in weight or convenience.

Better to carry two Safefill.

As I said I only need one. To be honest I only carry the Calor because I already had it and I've more than enough space/payload spare. Would cost additional money for second bottle plus hoses/hardware for linking.

Also - why Safefill? What's the advantages of Safefill in particular? Gaslow does the job just as well and can use an external fill point.

 

[royandsharont]

It all depends on your camping style. As pointed out above they are costly and really gas at filling stations is only meant to power LPG driven vehicles, regardless of system installed, not camping gas.

I personally couldn’t justify the outlay as I use campsites and only use less than 2k of gas every 2 month trip into Europe. I carry 2x6k bottles

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[EuroTrotters]

We have refillable cylinders, fixed on the motorhome.

I have 2 x SafeFill for the caravan. The bonus with the SafeFill is I can take them off to power the home BBQ

 

[Minxy]

I will say this too - as I always do on threads like this. I don't see the need for more than one bottle. What's the point when you can just fill it up when it gets low. If moneys not object then fair enough - get as many as you can fit but personally I have one Gaslow 11KG and I carry a small 6KG Calor just in case I should ever accidentally run out - which I haven't in 3 years and 25,000 miles of travelling.

We have 2 x 11kg Gaslow bottles, one less than 10 years old and the other a refurbished/recertified one from Gaslow itself, the latter being a 'new' old one doesn't have a gauge so we have no idea of how much gas is in it, but it doesn't bother us as we just use that one first .... however ... last night I was cooking tea (a novelty in itself! ) and the gas went off! It shouldn't have as the refurb bottle we were using was filled last year shortly after we got it and we hadn't used the gas since then other than to check everything was working okay before our current trip so plenty of gas left in it. Hubby switched over to our newer bottle and I continued to cook whilst musing why the refurb bottle had petered out so quickly, faulty bottle was an outside possibility but the most logical answer was that as it had been it's first fill last year it hadn't fully topped up which is known to happen with 'new' bottles. Consequently we topped up the gas today as we were literally passing a well priced fuel station and only got in just over 6 litres ... hmmmmm ... head scratching time! This meant that the refurb bottle still had plenty of gas in it so why did it stop working? Only logical answer we could come up with was that it's got a lot of butane in the mix due to us filling it in the summer in the UK and as we're now travelling in France in winter where it gets quite chilly late afternoon onwards (I was cooking around 7.00 pm) the remaining gas had got too cold to gas off hence it stopping - I believe that butane is heavier than propane so the propane would likely have been used up first then the butane until it could no longer gas sufficiently.

We're using the refurb bottle now to see how it goes and so far it's working fine even though the temperature has again dropped quite a lot so we're hoping it was just too much butane and nothing else as trying to manage on one bottle will be a pain as we don't do sites etc so use at least 1 litre of gas a day, more if we have the heating on (never overnight though!), and want to stay a few days each time at our favourite spots thus don't want to have to de-camp to refill if we can help it plus not have the worry of possibly running out and freezing. I'll try to report back the outcome in a few days assuming we've not frozen to death!

 

[Minxy]

You will find some places will not fill removable bottles. Certainly in Portugal if you have not got a fixed filling point then most garages will not let you fill. Not long back myself and a mate went to fill up I was ok with a fixed filling point but his didn't have an outside filling point it was inside by the bottles, the attendant checked and refused him so he had to go off and drill a hole to fit his filling point and change his pipes and went back next day and filled no problem.
Fit a permanent outside filling point and you can forget it and fill no problems

Definitely the way to go, why make things more difficult for yourself when away than they need to be, fit an external filler when you have time at home then much less worry when away.

One other benefit of fitting an external filler, as opposed to an in-locker one, is that with PVCs especially you don't end up with the smell of gas inside the vehicle which will happen if you have to open the main doors to access the gas locker, eg the ones in our PVCs were accessed via the rear doors so apart from having to have them open if it was raining/windy/ruddy cold, the smell of gas lingered for days afterwards.

I put details of how I fitted the smaller square fill point on our previous PVCs on my website:

Globecar Campscout - Services & AV

 

[1967bowesj]

I'd go for the refillables with external fill point.

Many places will not permit the filling of bottles, or the opening of locker doors to fill.

Technically, in most of Europe (including the UK) LPG for vehicles is taxed higher than LPG for cooking/heating.
So really a vehicle fuel station should not be selling you LPG.
However with an external filler point, if anyone asks, your engine runs on LPG (as well as a bit of diesel )

If you are not sure, do what many of us have done and fit the biggest refillable bottle you can, and have the smallest Calor bottle you can find as a back up.
(And ideally make sure the calor bottle is compatible with your BBQ!)

Brains
Do you care to further explain your logic on your quote

Technically, in most of Europe (including the UK) LPG for vehicles is taxed higher than LPG for cooking/heating.
So really a vehicle fuel station should not be selling you LPG.

l fail to understand why a higher taxed fuel would be refused, if it was a cheaper taxed fuel used for powering the engine I could understand.

 

[1967bowesj]

We have 2 x 11kg Gaslow bottles, one less than 10 years old and the other a refurbished/recertified one from Gaslow itself, the latter being a 'new' old one doesn't have a gauge so we have no idea of how much gas is in it, but it doesn't bother us as we just use that one first .... however ... last night I was cooking tea (a novelty in itself! ) and the gas went off! It shouldn't have as the refurb bottle we were using was filled last year shortly after we got it and we hadn't used the gas since then other than to check everything was working okay before our current trip so plenty of gas left in it. Hubby switched over to our newer bottle and I continued to cook whilst musing why the refurb bottle had petered out so quickly, faulty bottle was an outside possibility but the most logical answer was that as it had been it's first fill last year it hadn't fully topped up which is known to happen with 'new' bottles. Consequently we topped up the gas today as we were literally passing a well priced fuel station and only got in just over 6 litres ... hmmmmm ... head scratching time! This meant that the refurb bottle still had plenty of gas in it so why did it stop working? Only logical answer we could come up with was that it's got a lot of butane in the mix due to us filling it in the summer in the UK and as we're now travelling in France in winter where it gets quite chilly late afternoon onwards (I was cooking around 7.00 pm) the remaining gas had got too cold to gas off hence it stopping - I believe that butane is heavier than propane so the propane would likely have been used up first then the butane until it could no longer gas sufficiently.

We're using the refurb bottle now to see how it goes and so far it's working fine even though the temperature has again dropped quite a lot so we're hoping it was just too much butane and nothing else as trying to manage on one bottle will be a pain as we don't do sites etc so use at least 1 litre of gas a day, more if we have the heating on (never overnight though!), and want to stay a few days each time at our favourite spots thus don't want to have to de-camp to refill if we can help it plus not have the worry of possibly running out and freezing. I'll try to report back the outcome in a few days assuming we've not frozen to death!

Minxy
what change over valve do you have fitted?
we had an issue with old one part sticking

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[Jev88]

Direct fill bottles (no fitted to vehicle fill point) are banned at Flogas depots but they can be slow to change actual practices.

 

[Fdhadi]

I now have one 10kg and one 7.5kg Safefill Bottles.
If I change my Motorhome, they are coming with me.

Like EuroTrotters, I also use the 7.5kg cylinder for the patio heater or BBQ.

 

[Minxy]

Minxy
what change over valve do you have fitted?
we had an issue with old one part sticking

Our 'change over valve' is mine or hubby's grubby mitt closing one bottle and opening the other!

 

[VXman]

Brains
Do you care to further explain your logic on your quote

Technically, in most of Europe (including the UK) LPG for vehicles is taxed higher than LPG for cooking/heating.
So really a vehicle fuel station should not be selling you LPG.

l fail to understand why a higher taxed fuel would be refused, if it was a cheaper taxed fuel used for powering the engine I could understand.

I don't think it has anything to do with tax. Some garages just don't like to fill motorhome bottles because they think it is dangerous. I believe Total garages in France have a ban on filling motorhomes as they have had accidents in the past.

Anyway, I have an external fillpoint and have never had a problem.

I did have a lady in the Shell garage in my home town come running out once when she saw me filling up but as soon as she saw I was using an normal external fill point she walked away again. The pump at Shell clearly says 'this is for the use of LPG propelled vehicles' (or something like that)

In Bosnia the assistant filled my motorhome with diesel at a garage, paid and then moved to the LPG pump and asked to be filled with LPG. The assistant had a conversation with his colleague and looked perplexed. Then then asked me 'why diesel AND LPG. I explained LPG was for cooking and he nodded his head and smiled.

Everywhere is different. A external fill point just makes live simpler.

 

[Lenny HB]

I don't hold with this you only need one cylinder. We have 2 x 14kg cylinders I certainly would want any less. We use a bit more gas than some as we never use EHU.

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[JockandRita]

I don't hold with this you only need one cylinder. We have 2 x 14kg cylinders I certainly would want any less. We use a bit more gas than some as we never use EHU.

Yep, totally agree with you Lenny, as we are the same, ie, rarely on EHU.
I do miss my underslung bulk tank I had on the last MH.

With regards to not having the heating on all night, we do if the right weather for it has been forecast. The way modern heating systems are installed and operate in MHs these days, it's no more of a danger than having your central heating coming on during the night when at home. They are both externally flued, and are thermostatically controlled.
If it wasn't safe, we wouldn't be using it.

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[Jez1966]

We have refillable cylinders, fixed on the motorhome.

I have 2 x SafeFill for the caravan. The bonus with the SafeFill is I can take them off to power the home BBQ

Swift Kon-Tiki has gas outlet on van to connect BBQ, presume others have the same.

We have 2x11kg Gaslow, we had plenty of headroom on payload and nothing else to go in the space why not.
So much simpler to pull up to LPG pump and refill in petrol station, often 24/7.
You can't refill removable at LPG pump

 

[bigtree]

We have 2 x 11kg Gaslow bottles, one less than 10 years old and the other a refurbished/recertified one from Gaslow itself, the latter being a 'new' old one doesn't have a gauge so we have no idea of how much gas is in it, but it doesn't bother us as we just use that one first .... however ... last night I was cooking tea (a novelty in itself! ) and the gas went off! It shouldn't have as the refurb bottle we were using was filled last year shortly after we got it and we hadn't used the gas since then other than to check everything was working okay before our current trip so plenty of gas left in it. Hubby switched over to our newer bottle and I continued to cook whilst musing why the refurb bottle had petered out so quickly, faulty bottle was an outside possibility but the most logical answer was that as it had been it's first fill last year it hadn't fully topped up which is known to happen with 'new' bottles. Consequently we topped up the gas today as we were literally passing a well priced fuel station and only got in just over 6 litres ... hmmmmm ... head scratching time! This meant that the refurb bottle still had plenty of gas in it so why did it stop working? Only logical answer we could come up with was that it's got a lot of butane in the mix due to us filling it in the summer in the UK and as we're now travelling in France in winter where it gets quite chilly late afternoon onwards (I was cooking around 7.00 pm) the remaining gas had got too cold to gas off hence it stopping - I believe that butane is heavier than propane so the propane would likely have been used up first then the butane until it could no longer gas sufficiently.

We're using the refurb bottle now to see how it goes and so far it's working fine even though the temperature has again dropped quite a lot so we're hoping it was just too much butane and nothing else as trying to manage on one bottle will be a pain as we don't do sites etc so use at least 1 litre of gas a day, more if we have the heating on (never overnight though!), and want to stay a few days each time at our favourite spots thus don't want to have to de-camp to refill if we can help it plus not have the worry of possibly running out and freezing. I'll try to report back the outcome in a few days assuming we've not frozen to death!

In the UK it is only propane, some European countries have a mixture depending on the season. I believe Portugal is propane only too.

 

[tinkertaylor]

I chose a fixed external tank to give me more storage space in the van and less holes/doors needed in the side of the van or door space blocked with a gas locker. In a 6m PVC they would have to be at the back doors and away from the wheel arch.......right in the middle of the back doors.

The advantage of removable is redundancy, if you have 2, and they are easily replaced if they are faulty ( they don't age like external tanks do)

I like using lpg, it gives me more redundancy if the electrics fail but I can see in the next 5-10 years induction hobs and electric water heaters taking over and becoming a more viable solution.

 

[cyberyacht]

I've got a 10Kg & 7.5Kg Safefill. Did fill up 'in locker' once at a Leclerc in Verdun. I have a redundant Gaslow filler, courtesy of the previous owner and would like to find suitable POL fittings with a gas valve that I could connect to the existing pipe to facilitate remote filling for those 'difficult' situations. When the current bottles expire, I'll probably go for a Gasbank with separate fill point. I do like lightweight composite bottles - they save on payload.