AddBlue MAN 180 TGE

[Dave100456]

Hi, I'm really pleased with my MAN TGE engine in my Knaus motorhome; there's a but coming.......

However, I'm concerned about the Addblue system. The Addblue tank was full when purchased new in 2023 and indicated 15,000 mile range. I've done 11,000 miles and not topped up at all. The range did drop to 12,500 but currently shows 15,000.

I've had no engine warning lights and whilst it's nice to not have to buy Addblue, I'm concerned about emissions and possible MOT failure in the future.

Under warranty the vehicle has had a new addblue injector fitted but this hasn't changed anything.

Any other TGE owners/user able to comment on their Addblue consumption?

Thanks
Dave

 

[DandJ]

Might the dealer have topped up the adblue tank when they changed the injector?

 

[Antl]

I have had two MAN TGEs and my experience is similar to yours. I did over 15000 miles in the last one, never topped up the adblue and from memory the remaining range was over 10000 miles when I sold it.

 

[gus-lopez]

Why not just continually top to the inlet neck? Same as your windscreen washers should be done

 

[B+W vanman]

Are the NOx emissions tested when serviced?
And why was the injector replaced?

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[Raul]

Mine is a Crafter 140, and add blue tank 18L is enough for 8k miles max.
If you scroll through dash menu, it will give you the range and any quantity that you may add.
without knowing the add blue quantity, the miles means nothing.
Usually, there are 4 regens per tank and the add blue is used to wash the ash.

 

[Grummyb]

I've done 10000 miles in my discovery and havnt topped up the adblu it only gets used under heavy loads or harsh conditions so if your driving like Miss Daisy it will last for ever conversely my 4x4,s that are towing every day and doing 1500 a miles a week need to fill up every 10 days ish

 

[Dave100456]

Might the dealer have topped up the adblue tank when they changed the injector?

Service centre replaced Addblue injector under warranty because they thought it might be blocked. They didn’t top up and when I drove home the mileage was 12500 but has subsequently risen to 15000

 

[Dave100456]

I have had two MAN TGEs and my experience is similar to yours. I did over 15000 miles in the last one, never topped up the adblue and from memory the remaining range was over 10000 miles when I sold it.

Thanks for the info on your experience- puts my mind at rest.

 

[Dave100456]

Why not just continually top to the inlet neck? Same as your windscreen washers should be done

As Addblue crystallises with age I’ve avoided topping up if indeed I can get any more in. Had I known this engine used so little Addblue I’d have only filled to 25% two years ago when I bought it.

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[Dave100456]

Are the NOx emissions tested when serviced?
And why was the injector replaced?

I have not had the emissions tested and the injector was replaced under warranty on the advice of the main agent.

 

[Dave100456]

Mine is a Crafter 140, and add blue tank 18L is enough for 8k miles max.
If you scroll through dash menu, it will give you the range and any quantity that you may add.
without knowing the add blue quantity, the miles means nothing.
Usually, there are 4 regens per tank and the add blue is used to wash the ash.

Think my dash menu is different to yours as all I can see regarding Addblue is the remaining range.

 

[Dave100456]

I've done 10000 miles in my discovery and havnt topped up the adblu it only gets used under heavy loads or harsh conditions so if your driving like Miss Daisy it will last for ever conversely my 4x4,s that are towing every day and doing 1500 a miles a week need to fill up every 10 days ish

Don’t think I drive like Miss Daisy; my understanding is that slow urban style driving or having the engine labour at low, inappropriate rpm are more likely cause soot emission related issues.

 

[Raul]

Think my dash menu is different to yours as all I can see regarding Addblue is the remaining range.

If you can see the remaining range, then the level is high enough not to give you any top up values. When mine goes down, for a 18L tank, the min value to top up starts at 7L. Any less will not give me any top up values, just remaining range.

 

[B+W vanman]

Don’t think I drive like Miss Daisy; my understanding is that slow urban style driving or having the engine labour at low, inappropriate rpm are more likely cause soot emission related issues.

I don’t think Adblue is supposed to deal with soot, or particulates, that is why the solution is injected into the exhaust downstream of the particulate filter
It reacts with the NOx gases in the catalyst converter to form nitrogen and water
That is why the tailpipe NOx emissions are tested and the car’s NOx sensors are mounted between the catalytic converter and the tailpipe

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[oldiesontour]

Mine is a Crafter 140, and add blue tank 18L is enough for 8k miles max.
If you scroll through dash menu, it will give you the range and any quantity that you may add.
without knowing the add blue quantity, the miles means nothing.
Usually, there are 4 regens per tank and the add blue is used to wash the ash.

That's a very different system to the norm where it is continually sprayed into the exhaust and only uses half of what the ducato's use

 

[Raul]

That's a very different system to the norm where it is continually sprayed into the exhaust and only uses half of what the ducato's use

Its not different, its misunderstood. Before the dpf there is a oxidiser to deal with NOx, after Oxidiser is the dpf, but right in front of it, is the add blue injector. The add blue is not used all the time. During regen there is no add blue injected as the exhaust needs to heat up. The regent takes care of soot, and the by product of that is ash, that's dealt with add blue. The pressure sensor tells if it needs add blue to clear the ash or not.
The ash can result from triggered or passive regens. Its all monitored and dosed accordingly.

 

[B+W vanman]

Its not different, its misunderstood. Before the dpf there is a oxidiser to deal with NOx, after Oxidiser is the dpf, but right in front of it, is the add blue injector. The add blue is not used all the time. During regen there is no add blue injected as the exhaust needs to heat up. The regent takes care of soot, and the by product of that is ash, that's dealt with add blue. The pressure sensor tells if it needs add blue to clear the ash or not.
The ash can result from triggered or passive regens. Its all monitored and dosed accordingly.

I’m sorry, but I don’t believe that particle filters and Adblue systems work like that, as I understand they are independent systems.
The DPF requires small amounts of unburnt diesel to create an active regeneration, dealing with particulate matter.
Adblue is injected into the exhaust downstream and generates ammonia which combines with the NOx gases, forming nitrogen and water.

 

[Hettie's Crew]

Can you drain it out? We have a similar issue with our eight year old Citroen C4 Picasso car that we have never added Adblue to between services. Last year though it developed a fault and needed a new tank/pump and injector, all crystalised up, not cheap. Because it uses so little AdBlue it can sit in the tank for years and as you say it crystallises with age.
We now, on the advice of the Citroen mechanic use Wynns anti crystallising additive and I intend to drain it all out and replace with new about every eighteen months or so.
Our Citroen tank has a drain for this, not all do. Also, not all manufacturers recommend additives.

 

[Jon Stewart]

Why not just continually top to the inlet neck? Same as your windscreen washers should be done

The system in cars normally requires a minimum (10L) for VW group car engines, then turn ignition on for 30 seconds to allow it to recognise the addition, so the manual says, and also in my experience.

Don't know whether the van engines are the same, but wouldn't surprise me.

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[Scottish Scrutineer]

When I picked up my Crafter based Knaus, the adBlue range was 17000 miles, by the time I got home, having driven almost 500 mostly motorway miles, it had increased to 18500. The use varies on the type of running.
I have added a product to reduce the risk of crystallisation as a precaution.

 

[rod_vw]

Raul the 2025 TGE brochure quotes an Adblue capacity of 30litres, have they changed it from the 2017 onwards model? 2025 model -- https://www.man.eu/ntg_media/media/...MAN-TGE-NEXT-LEVEL-pricelist-tech-data-uk.pdf page 18

 

[379inca]

Dave, our ad blue experience is similar to yourself, 2023 Knaus 650 MEG on a MAN tge 3 180. When we picked it up, the range slowly increased from 12500 miles to 19000 miles. We have covered 11500 miles in our first year and the range is now 13500 miles. I’ve asked MAN to check out the system at its first service which they did and confirmed everything was working as it should. They said it would soon let you know if you have a problem as the dashboard would light up like a Christmas tree.
To confirm your vehicle year will have a 30 litre adblue tank.
I have been advised to never brim fill the tank on MAN tge vehicles as it will cause problems with the level sensor in the tank and confuse the system. Confirmed when searching on Google under “overfilling man tge ad blue”.
I haven’t had the message yet, but apparently we will eventually get a message telling us to top up with ad blue within a range of say 10 to 15 litres. Again I haven’t been advised to stick within the amounts displayed and not be tempted to add more for the above reason.
Apologies if my post was a bit long winded. I had your same concerns early on, but basically don’t worry, just enjoy your travels.

 

[tht3]

The 'EA288evo' version of VAG's 2.0TDi as found in the MAN is one of the most frugal users of AdBlue out there; think of about 1% of diesel consumption as a maximum. It features 'twin dosing' with 2x SCR catalysts and 2x AdBlue injectors. The first SCR+injector is ahead of the DPF and is used when the exhaust gas is cool (startup, low load) because the ECU can use the diesel oxidation catalyst, AKA heat-up catalyst, to quickly (within about 200m from a cold start!) raise the SCR temperature into the range where AdBlue is effective. Once the second SCR, post DPF, naturally comes up to temperature (or the first SCR gets too hot) then AdBlue injection is switched to that, but can switch back to the first SCR at any time the exhaust stream cools. Cracking engine albeit with the complication of both twin AdBlue injection and twin (LP+HP) EGR valves..

If you want to keep an eye on AdBlue parameters then you could try an OBD dongle and the excellent Car Scanner app. I say 'try' because there isn't yet a connection profile listed in the app for the EA288evo under MAN, but I would expect any of the other (VW/Audi/SEAT/Skoda) 'Diesel DPF var.7[EA288evo]' connection profiles to work. If they do then you'd be able to view all of the ECU's AdBlue parameters e.g. DEF tank level %, DEF usage for the current driving cycle, DEF dosing mode (SCR1 or 2), DEF tank temperature, DEF concentration etc.

 

[Raul]

Raul the 2025 TGE brochure quotes an Adblue capacity of 30litres, have they changed it from the 2017 onwards model? 2025 model -- https://www.man.eu/ntg_media/media/...MAN-TGE-NEXT-LEVEL-pricelist-tech-data-uk.pdf page 18

I don't know for sure Rod, there are 4 engine codes for that era and DAUA SY is a 18L tank, till about 2022 ish. I was only try to compare quantity to miles to gauge consumption.
If is a 30L tank, then it makes sense, as mine full tank range given is about 8K miles.
Dosage is default VW I haven't played with the quantity. What I have observed on VCDS, the add blue is not used all the time as the oxidiser does most of the work up front. I didn't know that, But also when under load the add blue comes alive.
That confirms 379inca and tht3 posts above.

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[B+W vanman]

The 'EA288evo' version of VAG's 2.0TDi as found in the MAN is one of the most frugal users of AdBlue out there; think of about 1% of diesel consumption as a maximum. It features 'twin dosing' with 2x SCR catalysts and 2x AdBlue injectors. The first SCR+injector is ahead of the DPF and is used when the exhaust gas is cool (startup, low load) because the ECU can use the diesel oxidation catalyst, AKA heat-up catalyst, to quickly (within about 200m from a cold start!) raise the SCR temperature into the range where AdBlue is effective. Once the second SCR, post DPF, naturally comes up to temperature (or the first SCR gets too hot) then AdBlue injection is switched to that, but can switch back to the first SCR at any time the exhaust stream cools. Cracking engine albeit with the complication of both twin AdBlue injection and twin (LP+HP) EGR valves..

If you want to keep an eye on AdBlue parameters then you could try an OBD dongle and the excellent Car Scanner app. I say 'try' because there isn't yet a connection profile listed in the app for the EA288evo under MAN, but I would expect any of the other (VW/Audi/SEAT/Skoda) 'Diesel DPF var.7[EA288evo]' connection profiles to work. If they do then you'd be able to view all of the ECU's AdBlue parameters e.g. DEF tank level %, DEF usage for the current driving cycle, DEF dosing mode (SCR1 or 2), DEF tank temperature, DEF concentration etc.

Excellent explanation of a very complicated system! Everyday is a school day, even now! Ty

 

[Ditcha]

Dave, our ad blue experience is similar to yourself, 2023 Knaus 650 MEG on a MAN tge 3 180. When we picked it up, the range slowly increased from 12500 miles to 19000 miles. We have covered 11500 miles in our first year and the range is now 13500 miles. I’ve asked MAN to check out the system at its first service which they did and confirmed everything was working as it should. They said it would soon let you know if you have a problem as the dashboard would light up like a Christmas tree.
To confirm your vehicle year will have a 30 litre adblue tank.
I have been advised to never brim fill the tank on MAN tge vehicles as it will cause problems with the level sensor in the tank and confuse the system. Confirmed when searching on Google under “overfilling man tge ad blue”.
I haven’t had the message yet, but apparently we will eventually get a message telling us to top up with ad blue within a range of say 10 to 15 litres. Again I haven’t been advised to stick within the amounts displayed and not be tempted to add more for the above reason.
Apologies if my post was a bit long winded. I had your same concerns early on, but basically don’t worry, just enjoy your travels.

The sprinter is the same with regards to over filling the adblue, the tank uses a ultrasonic gauge so needs a air gap at the top of the tank to be able to work correctly.

 

[Ditcha]

This isn't a MAN set up but a sprinter set up showing the emissions set up so will be similar it's American so they use the word DEF instead of adblue.

 

[B+W vanman]

This isn't a MAN set up but a sprinter set up showing the emissions set up so will be similar it's American so they use the word DEF instead of adblue.

No wonder they malfunction! And cost £ thousands when they do……

 

[Dave100456]

Dave, our ad blue experience is similar to yourself, 2023 Knaus 650 MEG on a MAN tge 3 180. When we picked it up, the range slowly increased from 12500 miles to 19000 miles. We have covered 11500 miles in our first year and the range is now 13500 miles. I’ve asked MAN to check out the system at its first service which they did and confirmed everything was working as it should. They said it would soon let you know if you have a problem as the dashboard would light up like a Christmas tree.
To confirm your vehicle year will have a 30 litre adblue tank.
I have been advised to never brim fill the tank on MAN tge vehicles as it will cause problems with the level sensor in the tank and confuse the system. Confirmed when searching on Google under “overfilling man tge ad blue”.
I haven’t had the message yet, but apparently we will eventually get a message telling us to top up with ad blue within a range of say 10 to 15 litres. Again I haven’t been advised to stick within the amounts displayed and not be tempted to add more for the above reason.
Apologies if my post was a bit long winded. I had your same concerns early on, but basically don’t worry, just enjoy your travels.

Thank you for the post it’s good to know other vehicle(s) behave the same. I am awaiting a response from MAN as the dealer has raised this.