A Frame

[vwalan]

geo i think you are right some reverse easier than others . could just be steering geometry , boxes , racks , balljoint, kingpin . i cant answer the question but like the discussion.

 

[moandick]

Hi 2bob

Flipping a 'cup' over the old tow hitch - not allowed I'm afraid - has to be reversed without human intervention.

Now, as to starting up an old argument for the 'n 'th time - I did say in my post that some people would say you could reverse an A Frame whereas other people, namely me, would say that you can't.

I don't care who says that they can or can't - I don't believe anybody could do a three-point turn with an A frame or even bend it around a corner.

BUT owning and using an A frame when compared to owning and using a large twin axle trailer such as mine is a 'no-brainer' which is why I am having an A Frame fitted! :thumb:

 

[2bob]

loads of money then they r great fit in ka boot

 

[bobandjanie]

Hi I must admit I cant reverse mine UP HILL But when we are towing and Jane says bugger we should have gone down there, on many times I might add. We carry on until we find somewhere to back into, be it on my side or my blind side, and back in the road and turn around, in one month in France we had to unhook twice, once they had shut the road for a fair in town, and the second time the Aire was full, and you had to go out the same way, we have a Fiat Cinquecento without power steering oh:but then I did work on a farm a backed a artic trailer on a dolly, and have a class one, maybe you should practice more, the one thing I do is get Jane to look out of the back window, because I can see in the camera and Mirrors but not whats behind me only up the side, I never forget when I worked for someone years ago, this is his saying no mine. There are drivers and screw drivers and I have got a tool box full. Bob.:thumb:

 

[MaureenD]

Hi Folks
Sorry I stired up such a debate but we are new to this . We have an Auto Trail Scout on a mercedes so now we know about the a frame which we will go for whats the best type of car to tow we did think about an old Mini
Thanks all for your help
Maureen

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[MaureenD]

Sorry but I forgot whats the best A Frame
Maureen

 

[Gonewiththewind]

Taken from a Spanish Legal paper and roughly converted.
8. - TRANSPORT OF AUXILIARY VEHICLES:

The transport by the autocaravanas of auxiliary vehicles is very frequent, normally bicycles, a moped or a motorcycle of small piston displacement. This practical one is authorized whenever portabicicletas is used accredited or a platform destined to this purpose and, when it excels of the projection in plant of the autocaravana, satisfy the following requirements according to the arranged thing in articles 15 of the General Regulation of Circulation

That it excels of the projection in plant of the autocaravana, by the later part, until a 10% of his length and if outside a single vehicle (indivisible load), a 15%. That all the advisable precautions are adopted to avoid damages or dangers to the other users of the public thoroughfare, having to go protected the salient extremity to lessen the effects of a rubbing or hits possible.

It will have to be signalized by means of the V-20 signal to that the article 173 talks about and whose characteristics settle down in Annex XI of the General Regulation of Vehicles. This signal will be placed in the later end of the load so that it is constantly perpendicular to the axis of the vehicle.

Consultations in relation to the possibility that have also been formulated a autocaravana circulates towing to a tourism, this possibility is prohibited in article 9,3 of the General Regulation of Vehicles that does not allow the circulation of.
motor vehicle dragging to another one, unless that one is damaged or injured and it cannot to this end be dragged by another one specifically destined, in which case allows to its drag until the locality or next place where it can be immobilized without obstructing the circulation and whenever freeway or railcar is not circulated around.

Notwithstanding the previous circulation, of a set of vehicles integrated by a autocaravana and a tow or semitrailer on which another vehicle is transported, it is allowed if the set meets the conditions for the circulation by the public thoroughfares and is accredited according to the Directives 70/156/CEE and 94/20/CEE and in addition does not surpass the authorized maximum length for these sets that is of 18.75 meters for the tows and 16.50 meters for the semitrailers

What public for general knowledge becomes.

Madrid, 28 of January of 2008


THE CHIEF OF A MAIN DIRECTORATE
Navarrese Pere Olivella

TO ALL THE UNITS OF THE ORGANISM

What does that say?

 

[moandick]

Taken from a Spanish Legal paper and roughly converted.
8. - TRANSPORT OF AUXILIARY VEHICLES:


Notwithstanding the previous circulation, of a set of vehicles integrated by a autocaravana and a tow or semitrailer on which another vehicle is transported, it is allowed if the set meets the conditions for the circulation by the public thoroughfares and is accredited according to the Directives 70/156/CEE and 94/20/CEE and in addition does not surpass the authorized maximum length for these sets that is of 18.75 meters for the tows and 16.50 meters for the semitrailers

What does that say?

Hi gonewiththewind

This is what it says, basically:


TOWING

Under the Spanish Highway code, the towing of motor vehicles is not permitted. However, a motor vehicle may be towed by another provided that the towed vehicle is on a trailer that complies with EU Directives 70/156/CEE and 94/20/CEE or is accredited to be in compliance with British Standards and provided that the length of the convoy does not exceed 18.75mts (16. 50 if the tractor vehicle is a semi trailer).

The towing of trailers by motorcycles is subject to the following restrictions: the mass of the trailer is not over 50% of that of the tractor vehicle, circulation must be during day time and in good conditions of visibility, speeds are reduced by 10% of those permitted and no person is allowed to travel in the trailer.

The transport of two wheeled bicycles and motorcycles on racks fixed on the top of the vehicle is allowed. The use of a rack secured to the back of a vehicle is allowed provided that the device does not restrict or hinder in any way the vehicle’s lighting and signalling systems, nor affect the visibility of the registration plate or rest on the trailer’s mechanism. The load may not protrude more than 10% of the length of the vehicle (15% if the load is rigid) and a plaque warning of the protruding load must be displayed at the furthest point of the load. When the load protrudes along the entire width of the vehicle, two warning plaques, placed at each end of the load, are required. The load will also be marked by a red light when travelling in the dark or conditions of poor visibility.

 

[bobandjanie]

Hi mine is this: Car-a-tow towing frames specialists | For the modern motorcaravan owner thanks Bob.


I brought mine with an A Frame on it, just to try it before we get a better car and spend loads of money.

That might be your best bet, look on Ebay or maybe the things For Sale on here.

 

[Geo]

It appears to me to say that if im reading the very rough translation that this spanish law relates to spanish people, and on the other hand is the EU directive requiring the spanish to accept foriegn visitors and there equipment that is legal in the country of origin, even though it may contravine their laws. and that brings us back to the question of is it legal to use an A frame
Round and round we goLuverly Jublie
Geo

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[moandick]

Taken from a Spanish Legal paper and roughly converted.
8. - TRANSPORT OF AUXILIARY VEHICLES:


Notwithstanding the previous circulation, of a set of vehicles integrated by a autocaravana and a tow or semitrailer on which another vehicle is transported, it is allowed if the set meets the conditions for the circulation by the public thoroughfares and is accredited according to the Directives 70/156/CEE and 94/20/CEE and in addition does not surpass the authorized maximum length for these sets that is of 18.75 meters for the tows and 16.50 meters for the semitrailers

What does that say?

Hi gonewiththewind

This is what it says, basically:

TOWING

Under the Spanish Highway code, the towing of motor vehicles is not permitted.

However, a motor vehicle may be towed by another provided that the towed vehicle is on a trailer that complies with EU Directives 70/156/CEE and 94/20/CEE or is accredited to be in compliance with British Standards and provided that the length of the convoy does not exceed 18.75mts (16. 50 if the tractor vehicle is a semi trailer).

The towing of trailers by motorcycles is subject to the following restrictions: the mass of the trailer is not over 50% of that of the tractor vehicle, circulation must be during day time and in good conditions of visibility, speeds are reduced by 10% of those permitted and no person is allowed to travel in the trailer.

The transport of two wheeled bicycles and motorcycles on racks fixed on the top of the vehicle is allowed. The use of a rack secured to the back of a vehicle is allowed provided that the device does not restrict or hinder in any way the vehicle’s lighting and signalling systems, nor affect the visibility of the registration plate or rest on the trailer’s mechanism. The load may not protrude more than 10% of the length of the vehicle (15% if the load is rigid) and a plaque warning of the protruding load must be displayed at the furthest point of the load. When the load protrudes along the entire width of the vehicle, two warning plaques, placed at each end of the load, are required. The load will also be marked by a red light when travelling in the dark or conditions of poor visibility.

 

[camcondor]

Sorry but I forgot whats the best A Frame
Maureen

Oh dear, Maureen, you do believe in opening cans of worms, don't you!!!

Seriously though, there are several reputable suppliers countrywide and it depends a bit on your location and how far you are preared to travel to have the work done. Price may also be a factor, although prices for similar products do not vary hugely.

We have a Towtal A Frame which is well made by one of the original suppliers in the industry, who really know their stuff. Its a family owned company which has a good reputation. They are based in Stoke, with easy access and loads of parking for Motorhomes and Toads!!
Another Midlands supplier is Chris Cox; some members here are very happy with his product.

Perhaps you should check the various company websites or make a few calls before deciding on your product of choice. I'd recommend Towtal, even though they didn't supply a carry bag with the A frame or arrange the extra numberplate needed to tow the toad away when it was done!! Fortunately, they managed to organise a plate before we left with the mh and toad - turns out the workshop guys did not know how to operate the numberplate machine at Towtal (computer driven), and office staff were away at a show, but they arranged one from a local motor factors. They were also very helpful with demonstrating the hitching up etc and the premises are so big that you can have lots of practice runs before taking to the road!!! I think the cable braked A frame from Towtal for our Smart Car was £799. They do Brake Buddy and Unbraked versions as well. Unbraked are obviously much cheaper but you have few choices of toad then; Brake Buddy A Frames are pricey at around £1200 for the Smart, and I prefer the cable brake version anyway, given the limited room in the Smart.

You won't regret it. We have a lovely, hardly used Brian James Trailer for the Smart, but are much happier with the A frame as its so much easier to use, given our very steep driveway and problems trying to hitch the trailer up.

Laurie:thumb:

 

[vwalan]

hello . i use a very old INTERTRADE a frame as used by the rac for many years , i think they are still going . cant tell what the phone no. is as the plate on it is wornaway .look in mmm. always somebody advertising them.

 

[2bob]

hi hope these pic come out

 

[pappajohn]

hi hope these pic come out

the fine dismissal is a very interesting letter......unfortunatly its dated 1996.

laws do change.

what we need is a recent version of the same thing.
anyone had one?

john.

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[MaureenD]

Hi Camcorder
thanks for the info which we found very helpful. One thing we wondered about was that the Smart cars are automatic and we were under the impression that you can't tow an automatic.
We have a small Skoda car with a Tri-tronic (think thats how to spell it) box and was told it cannot be towed.
Any help on this one please
Maureen

 

[camcondor]

Maureen, at the risk of strating yet another incendiary situation , the simple answer to the question as to whether a Smart can be towed on an A frame is: YES. The construction of the Smart gearbox allows it to be towed in this manner without difficulty, although Mercedes state they will not honour a warranty on a Smart if it is towed in this fashion. So for a brand new one in warranty, probably not a good idea. However, for older ones out of warranty - many people have towed them many thousands of miles on an A frame with no difficulty at all.

Have a chat with Bill at Towtal - he can tell you how many A frames they have fitted to Smarts and generally give very sound advice. Sometimes they have small cars with A frames for sale as a unit, as well, fairly cheap.

Generally, though, you cannot tow a normal automatic car any great distance without damage, but this is not directly applicable to Smarts as their gearboxes are not constructed in the same way. There is a much more technical explanation which I hope no-one will bore you with, here, the simple answer to your question is YES you CAN tow a Smart quite easily and safely on an A frame. I'm not sure about the Skoda, but I think it is a "normal" auto which should not be towed more than a short distance.
The Smart is a great, funky little carand she's great to drive but I don't think we'll buy another when the Pixel dies as spares and servicing are the biggest rip off ever and they need specialist workshops - normal garages simply cannot work on them for the most part. Spares cost a fortune and are very wasteful - eg we had to replace a full steering wheel assembly with air bag (!) due to a faulty nylon ring worth about 10p which could not be changed or sourced on its own - costs involved=£544!!!! Fuel costs are minimal though - you can drive forever on a tankful.

Laurie

 

[MaureenD]

Hi Camcondor
Thanks so much for all that info you have been brilliant and we have learned a lot
Many thanks
Maureen

 

[Thepips]

Hi MaureenD,
I think you may mean tiptronic. If that's the case then it can't be towed as it's a conventional torque converter automatic.

Regards
Doug