A Class or Coachbuilt?

[David1972]

We have been looking for a new or nearly new motorhome and have narrowed it down to a few models. We ideally want an Auto as both my wife and I have not owned a manual car since 2008 and don't really fancy it on long drives. Also needs a large garage for our 2 electric bikes and sleep 4 as sometimes we will take some of the grandchildren.

Our choices below

Carado i338 Edition 15 A Class which is a 23 plate with only 740 miles with every extra put on and had an original list price of £95k which is up for £77
Sunlight T67S which will be brand new and come in at around 80k once we have added a few extras
Burstner Lyseo 690 with a Citroen Manual which they have on offer for 80k but would need to add a few bits to this. The Auto version is on a Fiat which is £95k which is way above what we want to spend.

What are the thoughts on the models above?

 

[nicholsong]

The buyer wants to sell because he was using it to take his mother away who is now very ill. I understand VAT as run my own business. You think £77k is a fair price?

Since you ask my opinion, it is that the dealer seems to be relying a lot on the new price of the extras to justify the sale at that price.

Only you know what extras you would want to add if you were buying a basic model and, as I said previously, then use this to discount the ones you do not want, then factor the other extras by 50%. This will lead you to the offer that you might make.

Another way is to ask how much of the asking price is for VAT. If the answers it will give you a figure to work out what he paid for it - or is he selling on commission for the owner? If the dealer owns it then I consider 5% a generous profit.

I think £77K is high.

 

[TheAleMan]

Are you referring to your motorhome in particular? Well, beauty is in the eye of the beholder I guess.

Nope, I think most A classes look better than C builds. Just my opinion of course. I have had both by the way.

 

[Wanders from Glos]

Looks a nice van and a reasonable price for something nearly new mileage and age wise. I'd always go in at at least 10% lower than sticker price though.

Going back to earlier conversations - The Carado i338 is a good example of why an A Class doesn't necessarily have or feel more spacious than a similar coach built as some have suggested. This layout (top image) is very similar to my coachbuilt (bottom image) but at 0.5 metres shorter is has integrated shower toilet whereas ours has separate rooms, and the lounge area is smaller. The only benefit size wise is that the area to the right of the red lines is maybe 6/7 inches wider which really doesn't have any impact on living space at all.

View attachment 879726
View attachment 879730

There is considerably more head room in cab area of an A class, plus the van cab on coachbuilt is quite a few inches narrower. I know this because we looked at the Carado coach built version of our A class and even measured inside That is why the mirrors are on stilts in a van conversion. Unless the coachbuilt part is the same width as the van cab, in which case a lot of space is lost along the whole length. Indeed, they sell those vans on the basis that they are narrower. In your diagram the A class is obviously wider appearing to confirm this. I only point all this out because the OP asked for advice and experience, rather than to start an additional discussion.

Our i339 has a separate shower room but I think that misses the point a little, it is a question of what OP wants. In fact, I don’t think we would go for a separate shower if we were to ever change (which is unlikely). We think the space it takes up in those vans we have seen that are designed that way could be used to better advantage.

On the question of which looks better, I was trying to be diplomatic because it seems a bit of a pointless argument. We might as well debate what the best album ever was, or who painted the best picture. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all that.

 

[Jonno1103]

Agree they often don’t look pretty, but it is back to whatever works best as somewhere to live for a few weeks or months. Whichever works.

By the way we have no blind spots in ours.

Very true.

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[LithiumConvert]

The only benefit size wise is that the area to the right of the red lines is maybe 6/7 inches wider which really doesn't have any impact on living space at all.

It makes a huge difference one you are on site and the seats have been turned round.

 

[haganap]

There is considerably more head room in cab area of an A class, plus the van cab on coachbuilt is quite a few inches narrower.

On the question of which looks better, I was trying to be diplomatic because it seems a bit of a pointless argument. We might as well debate what the best album ever was, or who painted the best picture. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all that.

That first bit is not technically speaking true in terms of head room.

My Coach built has cupboards at the front and no drop down bed. Therefore the head room is greater (and measured) than any of the 5 A classes I have owned.
1) Hymer 680
2) N&B Arto 79le
3) N&B Flair
4) Carthago c line 58
5) Rapido 996.

Granted all the above had drop down beds, but one of the things that turned me on to the current van was how open and spacious it was in the front compared to all the A classes and other coach built I have owned. Granted, every other van I have owned has had a drop down bed, but I would now never consider a drop down bed again (no need only 2 of us) cupboards is like a game changer.
Also, I genuinely believe this and reading LithiumConvert post. Yes, it is narrower, but does it make a difference really? not really imv, once on site, seats turned, I sit in the passenger seat with it swiveled and I barely notice it. I stretch my legs across to the drivers seat just like I used to in all the A classes I owned. That there seat is mine!!!.

What I think people don't take in to consideration though, is your own size. I am really tall at 5ft 8 and Nikki is even Taller at 5ft dead. Therefore we can pretty much fit our van really well. Also the drive there is so much more relaxed in "our" C-class, we can drive for ever and even Nikki drove it last week, something she wouldn't do in the A class without duress.

On the subject of looks, guys, come on, do yourselves a favor, take those rose tinted specs off because you spent an extra 25k buying a bread van lookalike.

The vans I list above,

1) The most ugliest you will ever see on the road, people visibly threw up when they saw it, lucky to not be arrested by the ugly vehicle police but gorgeous inside
2) not a bad looker, great van btw but still slightly ugly
3) Owned it 6 months because it was such a horrible thing to drive and look at.
4) Best looking a class out there, sleek in looks, shame it caught fire
5) Theres only 3 vans more ugly, the Hymer,, A laika aclass and the levoygeur

So you can have your "more space to swivel in" you can have your "we dont have any drafts" you can have your "look at us we've got an A class" but for the final time,

Beauty in the eye of the beholder or not, you will never ever in a million years, convince anyone that your ugly looking bread delivery vans are a better looking van than a Carthago lowline coachbuilt, it isn't, stop it... go and lay down, take a pill, relax, enjoy yourselves.... but admire the beauty of the C class.

 

[Coastal Cruiser.]

VAT is irrelevant that whese is salesman BS, the only figures that matter are the total price paid new and the total second hand price

Yes my thoughts, you cannot get it back like a commercial vehicle so why even mention it.

Use to have sales blokes trying to confuse me about VAT when I use to buy vans for my firm
Only 2 ways it goes you can either claim it back or you cannot.

 

[Jonno1103]

That first bit is not technically speaking true in terms of head room.

My Coach built has cupboards at the front and no drop down bed. Therefore the head room is greater (and measured) than any of the 5 A classes I have owned.
1) Hymer 680
2) N&B Arto 79le
3) N&B Flair
4) Carthago c line 58
5) Rapido 996.

Granted all the above had drop down beds, but one of the things that turned me on to the current van was how open and spacious it was in the front compared to all the A classes and other coach built I have owned. Granted, every other van I have owned has had a drop down bed, but I would now never consider a drop down bed again (no need only 2 of us) cupboards is like a game changer.
Also, I genuinely believe this and reading LithiumConvert post. Yes, it is narrower, but does it make a difference really? not really imv, once on site, seats turned, I sit in the passenger seat with it swiveled and I barely notice it. I stretch my legs across to the drivers seat just like I used to in all the A classes I owned. That there seat is mine!!!.

What I think people don't take in to consideration though, is your own size. I am really tall at 5ft 8 and Nikki is even Taller at 5ft dead. Therefore we can pretty much fit our van really well. Also the drive there is so much more relaxed in "our" C-class, we can drive for ever and even Nikki drove it last week, something she wouldn't do in the A class without duress.

On the subject of looks, guys, come on, do yourselves a favor, take those rose tinted specs off because you spent an extra 25k buying a bread van lookalike.

The vans I list above,

1) The most ugliest you will ever see on the road, people visibly threw up when they saw it, lucky to not be arrested by the ugly vehicle police but gorgeous inside
2) not a bad looker, great van btw but still slightly ugly
3) Owned it 6 months because it was such a horrible thing to drive and look at.
4) Best looking a class out there, sleek in looks, shame it caught fire
5) Theres only 3 vans more ugly, the Hymer,, A laika aclass and the levoygeur

So you can have your "more space to swivel in" you can have your "we dont have any drafts" you can have your "look at us we've got an A class" but for the final time,

Beauty in the eye of the beholder or not, you will never ever in a million years, convince anyone that your ugly looking bread delivery vans are a better looking van than a Carthago lowline coachbuilt, it isn't, stop it... go and lay down, take a pill, relax, enjoy yourselves.... but admire the beauty of the C class.

Mate of mine looked at Auto Trails GF88 then realised for £20k less he could have a Comanche which is identical. The above cab dropdown would never have seen the light of day.

 

[Wanders from Glos]

That first bit is not technically speaking true in terms of head room.

I am technically correct on the question asked about a Carado, I am not in the habit of writing something that is misleading.

I have been trying to answer the original question rather than entering into a wider debate with personal opinions on A class versus coachbuilt. The OP was asking about a couple of makes, including a Carado. In my replies I have tried to respond to that question because I have a Carado and looked at the coachbuilt equivalent before deciding. You may be right if you remove the drop down bed, although I would be surprised. But I don't think the OP has said they plan to pay for that to be done? I am not even arguing A class is better, just that appearance is personal opinion and it is a matter of what works individually. To be clear though, factually there is more space in the front of an A class Carado than the coachbuilt equivalent.

BTW I am a few inches taller, probably closer to average height and regularly hit my head when I sit in the front seats of friends vans and try to stand up. I offer no opinion on comparison of other makes and expect there other makes where I could stand up.

I'll leave it there, I'm not sure there is much point pursuing it further. I simply thought it was important the OP had an accurate answer given they are attempting to make a buying decision.

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[haganap]

I am technically correct on the question asked about a Carado, I am not in the habit of writing something that is misleading.

I have been trying to answer the original question rather than entering into a wider debate with personal opinions on A class versus coachbuilt. The OP was asking about a couple of makes, including a Carado. In my replies I have tried to respond to that question because I have a Carado and looked at the coachbuilt equivalent before deciding. You may be right if you remove the drop down bed, although I would be surprised. But I don't think the OP has said they plan to pay for that to be done? I am not even arguing A class is better, just that appearance is personal opinion and it is a matter of what works individually. To be clear though, factually there is more space in the front of an A class Carado than the coachbuilt equivalent.

BTW I am a few inches taller, probably closer to average height and regularly hit my head when I sit in the front seats of friends vans and try to stand up. I offer no opinion on comparison of other makes and expect there other makes where I could stand up.

I'll leave it there, I'm not sure there is much point pursuing it further. I simply thought it was important the OP had an accurate answer given they are attempting to make a buying decision.

jesus lordy.... the title of the forum should be a bit of a clue.

no one holds your answer to account, I'm sure the OP will be more than made up with your observations. But trust me, you won't hit your head standing up in mine.

 

[Wanders from Glos]

jesus lordy.... the title of the forum should be a bit of a clue.

no one holds your answer to account, I'm sure the OP will be more than made up with your observations. But trust me, you won't hit your head standing up in mine.

No problem just didn’t want them to think I’d given them duff info. Glad to hear my head is safe.

 

[Sidders]

good luck with your choice, but one word of advice. Don't automatically assume that a "newer" motorhome is a "better" motorhome, it isn't.

Wise words in that last paragraph there haganap

I was all set to upgrade my old C class Laika with a newer A class Cathargo Chic C Line (mainly for the larger screen). It made sense on paper and in the pictures, and lovely as it was at first sight upon viewing, it never really impressed me the way I thought it would as I started poking around and taking it all in. Granted it wasn’t the best loved example and needed a few bits sorting, but even looking past that with my negotiating hat at the ready - I struggled to fall for it. The drive didn’t help matters. I know these aren’t meant to be dynamic things but I like the feel of the rear drive chassis on my C class (just my opinion). Appreciate there will be rear drive A class models out there, perhaps I should look at these next time.

I came away almost confused as wanted to love it and fall for it - but just didn’t. Perhaps I’ll come back to the idea and it’ll make more sense when it’s just me and the missus (currently have kids in tow), or perhaps try another model. But for now I love my C class, it just works for us at this point in life - I’m now looking at reupholstering it and having it ceramic coated with the savings