4250kg imminent?

[Jofang]

I picked up the text below today from www.camping-car.org, which is dated 21st December 2024. The original text is in French.

The format of the three-part pink driving license was inconvenient and specific to France and some European countries. The new format called credit card is therefore closer to the format of the national identity card and other useful cards (health card, blue card, etc.). The new format is supplemented with various security features including watermark photography and page background. Its falsification therefore becomes much more difficult.

The new credit card format is also much less sensitive to handling accidents: rain, tearing, creasing, etc.

Finally, this format and its content are now officially recognized in all countries of the European Union and many EU partner countries (Norway for example).

But it is above all the fact of finally being able to officially drive vehicles with a GVW of 4250 kg with a B license that interests motorhome drivers. We are still far from the 7 to 8 tons authorized in most states in the United States and Canada. But it is a significant step towards the generalization of new vehicles with greater usability.

 

[Peppadog]

I’ve seen it is EU policy or already law, though not implemented by most yet. Might be in Spain though.
No one seems sure when. UK very likely to follow, though nothing stopping them changing to 4250, or even back to the pre 97 7.1/2 ton limit for all. i.e. C1 immediately.

 

[Gromett]

I picked up the text below today from www.camping-car.org, which is dated 21st December 2024. The original text is in French.

The format of the three-part pink driving license was inconvenient and specific to France and some European countries. The new format called credit card is therefore closer to the format of the national identity card and other useful cards (health card, blue card, etc.). The new format is supplemented with various security features including watermark photography and page background. Its falsification therefore becomes much more difficult.

The new credit card format is also much less sensitive to handling accidents: rain, tearing, creasing, etc.

Finally, this format and its content are now officially recognized in all countries of the European Union and many EU partner countries (Norway for example).

But it is above all the fact of finally being able to officially drive vehicles with a GVW of 4250 kg with a B license that interests motorhome drivers. We are still far from the 7 to 8 tons authorized in most states in the United States and Canada. But it is a significant step towards the generalization of new vehicles with greater usability.

An EU thing I think. No guarantee it will be transferred to the UK sadly.

In the UK there is a limited form of this. But you need to take some extra training and it has to be for commercial purposes.

 

[The Artilleryman]

Unlikely to happen here too many bre***ier ass wipes to let us adopt a sensible regulation from the EU.

 

[LesW]

Unlikely to happen here too many bre***ier ass wipes to let us adopt a sensible regulation from the EU.

Really?

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[Thornebt]

I would prefer the limit to stay at 3500kg. My Autosleeper is 4005kg and I enjoy the £165 PHGV tax rate. I don't want to lose that if they increase PHGV to 4250kg.

 

[LithiumConvert]

I would prefer the limit to stay at 3500kg. My Autosleeper is 4005kg and I enjoy the £165 PHGV tax rate. I don't want to lose that if they increase PHGV to 4250kg.

A minority view, I hope

 

[Lenny HB]

I would prefer the limit to stay at 3500kg. My Autosleeper is 4005kg and I enjoy the £165 PHGV tax rate. I don't want to lose that if they increase PHGV to 4250kg.

With even budget Motorhomes now at £70K to £80K is a couple of hundred quid a year really going to worry most people.

 

[LithiumConvert]

With even budget Motorhomes now at £70K to £80K is a couple of hundred quid a year really going to worry most people.

No.

 

[Bill-H]

An EU thing I think. No guarantee it will be transferred to the UK sadly.

In the UK there is a limited form of this. But you need to take some extra training and it has to be for commercial purposes.

Is that not purely for electic powered commercial vehicles?

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[The Artilleryman]

We are a very small minority and I doubt this government would spend any time on this. Don't get me wrong, I'm in favour of this - would make selling my motorhome easier in a couple of years - but don't see it happening.

 

[Jofang]

I've read that the EU brought in this change mainly for the heavier weight of electric ambulances. The motorhome fraternity in Europe has also be asking for this increase, as a 3500kg motorhome can legally pull a 750kg trailer = 4250kg, which is more of a handful than just a motorhome at 4250kg, so it makes sense to raise the limit.

 

[Gromett]

Is that not purely for electic powered commercial vehicles?

Correct. I thought that is what we were talking about?

 

[Bill-H]

Correct. I thought that is what we were talking about?

Sorry, didn't see a reference in the OP

 

[Gromett]

Sorry, didn't see a reference in the OP

He didn't reference it. But I assumed as that is what the EU is doing that what was he was discussing?

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[PaulW2]

Texts adopted - Driving licences - Wednesday, 28 February 2024

www.europarl.europa.eu

Article 9HA seems relevant.

Motor caravans appear to be in scope of the 4,250kg limit for B licences.

 

[DuxDeluxe]

I would prefer the limit to stay at 3500kg. My Autosleeper is 4005kg and I enjoy the £165 PHGV tax rate. I don't want to lose that if they increase PHGV to 4250kg.

I take a wider view for the general population and prefer the 4250. A small financial penalty for the convenience and legality for very many people

 

[Gromett]

I take a wider view for the general population and prefer the 4250. A small financial penalty for the convenience and legality for very many people

Worth bearing in mind though that the increased limit does not automatically increase the GVW of a vehicle. So an overweight vehicle at 3,500KG will still be an overweight vehicle even with any uprating to the license.

I know you know this, but for other who may not.

 

[gus-lopez]

Correct. I thought that is what we were talking about?

No .the eu rules are for electric vans + motorhomes/campervans,of any fuel type, all of which can then be driven on a B licence as weight is increased to 4250kgs from 3500kgs

He didn't reference it. But I assumed as that is what the EU is doing that what was he was discussing?

 

[Gromett]

No .the eu rules are for electric vans + motorhomes/campervans,of any fuel type, all of which can then be driven on a B licence as weight is increased to 4250kgs from 3500kgs

Yes, but then I said. this;

In the UK there is a limited form of this. But you need to take some extra training and it has to be for commercial purposes.

Is that not purely for electic powered commercial vehicles?

Which is the bit where I replied yes. I wasn't referring to EU rules by this point.

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[DuxDeluxe]

Worth bearing in mind though that the increased limit does not automatically increase the GVW of a vehicle. So an overweight vehicle at 3,500KG will still be an overweight vehicle even with any uprating to the license.

I know you know this, but for other who may not.

You are right of course. Nothing to do with plated weight….. but sitting on a 4000 kg van and all the licence issues of a few months ago thanks to DVLA incompetence I do hope that it happens

 

[PaulW2]

If the EU moves to allowing 4,250kg for motorhomes on a B licence and the UK doesn't we're of course heading for a world of pain.

Few of the EU manufacturers will still build for the 3,500 kg market and UK drivers with B licences will be entirely reliant on UK manufacturers.

 

[Guigsy]

I would prefer the limit to stay at 3500kg. My Autosleeper is 4005kg and I enjoy the £165 PHGV tax rate. I don't want to lose that if they increase PHGV to 4250kg.

I though VED was changing to close that gap anyway?

 

[Thornebt]

I though VED was changing to close that gap anyway?

Hopefully not. But if it does I guess I have the consolation that I've had cheap road tax for the three years I've owned the van. I've never understood why my van tax is less than half the VED rate of a 3500kg van.

 

[jongood]

I picked up the text below today from www.camping-car.org, which is dated 21st December 2024. The original text is in French.

The format of the three-part pink driving license was inconvenient and specific to France and some European countries. The new format called credit card is therefore closer to the format of the national identity card and other useful cards (health card, blue card, etc.). The new format is supplemented with various security features including watermark photography and page background. Its falsification therefore becomes much more difficult.

The new credit card format is also much less sensitive to handling accidents: rain, tearing, creasing, etc.

Finally, this format and its content are now officially recognized in all countries of the European Union and many EU partner countries (Norway for example).

But it is above all the fact of finally being able to officially drive vehicles with a GVW of 4250 kg with a B license that interests motorhome drivers. We are still far from the 7 to 8 tons authorized in most states in the United States and Canada. But it is a significant step towards the generalization of new vehicles with greater usability.

4250kgs French style - I can see a lot of tag axles being sold

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[Widge]

I picked up the text below today from www.camping-car.org, which is dated 21st December 2024. The original text is in French.

The format of the three-part pink driving license was inconvenient and specific to France and some European countries. The new format called credit card is therefore closer to the format of the national identity card and other useful cards (health card, blue card, etc.). The new format is supplemented with various security features including watermark photography and page background. Its falsification therefore becomes much more difficult.

The new credit card format is also much less sensitive to handling accidents: rain, tearing, creasing, etc.

Finally, this format and its content are now officially recognized in all countries of the European Union and many EU partner countries (Norway for example).

But it is above all the fact of finally being able to officially drive vehicles with a GVW of 4250 kg with a B license that interests motorhome drivers. We are still far from the 7 to 8 tons authorized in most states in the United States and Canada. But it is a significant step towards the generalization of new vehicles with greater usability.

Hi, I tried to have a look at the french version and the link took me to camping-car.fr, and couldn't find it, or did you get it from their facebook version.

Anyway regarding the paper licences, I wasn't sure why they even mentioned that, becouse unless the licence is more than about 10-15 years old it would already be a credit card sized one, I exchanged mine in about 2007 and got a paper one, but when I renewed my C1 in 2012, I received a credit card version.

I have also checked the goverment website. https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F2828
And I do not see any changes there, are they implying that it has already changed?

 

[poppycamper]

I've never understood why my van tax is less than half the VED rate of a 3500kg van

I believe to do with helping the
Haulage industry be reducing the tax burden on HGV's which your van techniqualy is

 

[DDJC]

Unlikely to happen here too many bre***ier ass wipes to let us adopt a sensible regulation from the EU.

Leaving aside the inflammatory and unnecessary rhetoric that might incur the wrath of Jim (and the incorrect American spelling of 'arse'), it may have escaped your attention that the current state mechanisms seem to be in favour of adopting certain more pragmatic ideas from across the water. This being one of them.

I have been watching this story carefully for the last two years or so, and IMO, if all or most of the EU countries adopt this EU policy, then UK will have to follow suit, pretty much immediately. Each country maintains its own rules on Licence categories, the weights and factors that apply, and the testing regimes to grant licence category. This is why, a French kid can ride a moped at fourteen, but can't cross into Belgium until they are sixteen.

Anyway, as soon as you start harmonising these factor across Europe, then it must happen here, purely down to the fact of foreign drivers of vans, light trucks and motorhomes, being unqualified to drive their vehicles on UK roads, if their licence doesn't match the UK rules (no, the Vienna convention does not apply to drivers here, only vehicles). So purely to keep freight and tourist traffic moving, UK will follow suit.

There was a big hoohah eighteen months ago, about whether it was better to go back to pre-1997 and give everyone a C1 licence, or to simply increase the B weight limit from 3500 to 4250. It looks like the B cat weight limit will be the winning solution.

I am in favour of the weight change. I am not sure whether I will be getting my bus up-plated to 3850kg. I tow a trailer for our little Suzuki, that is about 1500kg. Both me and Mrs DDJC have BE category, but if the bus weight goes to 4250, will that knock back the trailer weight? Probably not, but waiting to see.

 

[varaizian]

Hi, I tried to have a look at the french version and the link took me to camping-car.fr, and couldn't find it, or did you get it from their facebook version.

Anyway regarding the paper licences, I wasn't sure why they even mentioned that, becouse unless the licence is more than about 10-15 years old it would already be a credit card sized one, I exchanged mine in about 2007 and got a paper one, but when I renewed my C1 in 2012, I received a credit card version.

I have also checked the goverment website. https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F2828
And I do not see any changes there, are they implying that it has already changed?

I had the same problem with the link and scoured the screen looking for something to click on but unsuccessfully. My guess is that when anything actually changes the FFCC (or Federation Française des Campeurs, Caravaniers et Camping-Caristes for the uninitiated!) will be all over it and claiming credit for the change!

 

[PaulW2]

I had the same problem with the link and scoured the screen looking for something to click on but unsuccessfully. My guess is that when anything actually changes the FFCC (or Federation Française des Campeurs, Caravaniers et Camping-Caristes for the uninitiated!) will be all over it and claiming credit for the change!

I had wondered who would have been the most influential lobby groups behind the inclusion of motorhomes in the change.

I speculated that it might have been the German motorhome manufacturers given the size of their market, but suppose it could equally have been the French. In any event it seems quite likely that no-one too stridently opposed the change; maybe Hungary didn't have skin in the game!