240v Charging Lithium Batteries

[andy63]

Hi
Thankyou for the reply I’m just going through the books now to confirm it’s the switch for the charger but they don’t make it eas

The charger has a neon on off switch that illuminates... just switch it on and operate the trip.. the light on the charger will tell you if its that switch /trip

 

[Steve and Denise]

Did you fit these batteries your self? As anyone with a reasonable knowledge of batteries would have installed a higher capacity charger not having a go Paul just asking

 

[Zepp]

It’s been six hours since the van last tripped out

The 240 charger has been switched off

I’m running the fridge on 240 also the compressor freezer in the garage is on 240
and we have used the toaster on 240 at the same time nothing tripped

The batteries are on at 100% due to the solar panels and we are not using the 12v for much

I would be tempted to put the charger back on , if it only tripped my van but it also knocks everybody’s power off around us

I thinking you all have got it right it’s down to the charger not been up to the job or it’s a earth fault or the charger

I don’t think I can get a new charger where I am but I will try and ring Hispavan in the morning if they are still open it’s not too much of a problem I won’t stay on hookup once the weather picks up

The technical knowledge on this forum is second to none thanx guys I owe you all a

 

[Zepp]

Did you fit these batteries your self? As anyone with a reasonable knowledge of batteries would have installed a higher capacity charger not having a go Paul just asking

I know your not Steve never entered my mind
To be fair to the company that installed them I said we would like to be free from hookup and we decided to see how the charger performs and it could be changed a later day if required

 

[Zepp]

The charger has a neon on off switch that illuminates... just switch it on and operate the trip.. the light on the charger will tell you if its that switch /trip

I will have a word with Pedro and get him on standby I’m a bit reluctant to trip the neighbours vans out again if I switch the charger on lol......they have just started speaking to me after last night lol

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[andy63]

I don’t think I can get a new charger where I am but I will try and ring Hispavan in the morning

I'm just going to add one more thing here ..im not saying your set up is identical to mine but I do have cbe electrics with a ds300 type board and the same charger ..
The charger block connector to the ds300 board on mine contained a white sense wire that tells the board you are on mains and was responsible for some other functions..
I also had a green wire on the charger 4 pin plug.. that was if I remember correctly the engine run signal to the board which you wouldn't want disabled.. ..so all I'm saying is there may be a few things to consider if you swap out the present charger..
Andy..

 

[pappajohn]

Your charger doesn't have a lithium setting.
Max charge output is 13.8v..... I believe lithium needs around 14.4v so your charger is chewing its nuts off all the time. .

 

[Googlebot]

Your charger doesn't have a lithium setting.
Max charge output is 13.8v..... I believe lithium needs around 14.4v.

From what I have read, you’re right. It will just keep putting out full whack as there will be no resistance from the lithium like there will with lead acid.

 

[andy63]

Your charger doesn't have a lithium setting.
Max charge output is 13.8v..... I believe lithium needs around 14.4v so your charger is chewing its nuts off all the time. .

That charger is capable 0f 16A
The voltages are dependant on whether you have it set for gel or flooded lead acid.. ie 14.3v gel...14.1v lead acid..
But it would never bring the lithium to their full possible capacity

 

[Raul]

Saying that, 13,8v is plenty to get LFP to full, even 13,6v would, but will take longer. The 14,4v is when you have a stable stiff min 0,2C charge rate and charger switches off when current tapers of to 0,05C or there abouts.

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[Zepp]

I'm just going to add one more thing here ..im not saying your set up is identical to mine but I do have cbe electrics with a ds300 type board and the same charger ..
The charger block connector to the ds300 board on mine contained a white sense wire that tells the board you are on mains and was responsible for some other functions..
I also had a green wire on the charger 4 pin plug.. that was if I remember correctly the engine run signal to the board which you wouldn't want disabled.. ..so all I'm saying is there may be a few things to consider if you swap out the present charger..
Andy..

I agree Andy you have to consider everything

Thankyou

 

[Zepp]

Your charger doesn't have a lithium setting.
Max charge output is 13.8v..... I believe lithium needs around 14.4v so your charger is chewing its nuts off all the time. .

I agree it’s working flat out all the time

Thankyou

 

[two]

I'm puzzled that the problem, whatever it is, has caused more than one trip to go.
I'd expect the fastest one to respond to 'save' the others.

 

[two]

I agree it’s working flat out all the time

Thankyou

I'm trying to understand that.
If a charger only presents 13.8V, surely current will stop flowing when the battery's voltage matches it?

As an aside, it might be a bonus to only charge to 13.8V, rather than 14.4V so long as 13.8V takes it above 50% charge? Keeping Lithiums fully charged is said to reduce their lifespan.

 

[Zepp]

I'm trying to understand that.
If a charger only presents 13.8V, surely current will stop flowing when the battery's voltage matches it?

As an aside, it might be a bonus to only charge to 13.8V, rather than 14.4V so long as 13.8V takes it above 50% charge? Keeping Lithiums fully charged is said to reduce their lifespan.

I am no expert two I don’t no how it all works that’s why i had them install by a company

I’m sure it will all work out in the end

Thankyou

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[Raul]

Have a look at the graph attached, it’s voltage per cell multiply by four for a 12v. At 0,1C rate when it reaches 3,45vpc aka 13,8v it’s already at 95% SOC. If charging rate reduces further that 0,1C (10A for 100ah battery) , it will hit 100% SOC at lower voltage even at 3,4vpc aka 13,6v. The rate of charge dictates the charge voltage and time.

 

[Pausim]

I have been using my CBE 516 charger with a single 100Ah Li battery without problems on the 14.3V/13.8V setting. However I do not expect it to charge the battery from a discharged point, my B2B makes sure the battery is fully charged before I arrive on a site and plug in. It works fine at keeping on top the domestic demand and the voltages are not going to harm the battery. I would not expect it to cope with 3 discharged 100Ah batteries.

 

[Lenny HB]

Your charger doesn't have a lithium setting.
Max charge output is 13.8v..

They have not used chargers like that in vans for well over 20 years.

 

[Raul]

Pausim
At 15a for the 100ah is a 0,15C charge rate, not to shabby at all. Is when you deep below 0,05C rate it gets interesting.
Lithium wants reasonable charge rates specially at temperatures above 20C deg.

 

[BillandHelen]

We are currently talking to an installer about a set up similar to your own. We also have the cbe516 charger, the advice we are receiving is similar to Pausims, the CBE ”will do” re top-ups but will never fully recharge or cope with fully discharged batteries, need to use b2b or solar. They recommended a votronic 50amp mains charger if we wanted to be able to charge fully.

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[Zepp]

Just been speaking to Tom who installed the batteries
He agree’s with you guys the charger is not man enough to do the job and it is over heating

He also said why did we not upgrade it lol . we had a good old laugh about the reason

 

[Zepp]

Quick update the van is still tripping out with the charger off

I also gave the van a run out for gas and shopping so I no the batteries were completely full

I can here what sounds like a relay going on and off where the batteries are located if I pull the hookup cable out quickly I can save the power tripping

Go easy on me today guys on the tech stuff my heads all over the place

Also I have to explain to the nice german lady across the road why she saw a 6 foot 17 stone naked man running out of my door and start tugging on a cable I was in bed when I heard the clicking sound lol

I can live with been seen naked but I’m

drinking warm beer I turned the beer fridge off to reduce the load and Lynne has the main fridge full of food

Please don’t ask for pictures it was not a pretty site OMG I Can’t Stop Laughing

I also forgot to put my mask on she may of not knew it was me if I was wearing a mask lol

 

[Pausim]

I think you need to find out what is clicking (other than your nice German neighbour).

 

[Zepp]

The yellow trip switch what I asked about is the main power breaker

 

[Pausim]

Have you got an inverter?

If so:
How does it switch on and off?
Is it anywhere near where the clicking sound comes from?
Does it power the same sockets as the mains hook up?

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[Zepp]

Have you got an inverter?

If so:
How does it switch on and off?
Is it anywhere near where the clicking sound comes from?
Does it power the same sockets as the mains hook up?

yes we have a inverter it switches off on the main control panel It’s located right next to the batteries

Because it’s so random you don’t have time to look before it trips half the site out

Also inverter and batteries are not easy to access you can’t see anything

 

[Pausim]

Perhaps you should try disconnecting the inverter from the 240V side when on hook up, just to see if it is the clicking item.

 

[Zepp]

Perhaps you should try disconnecting the inverter from the 240V side when on hook up, just to see if it is the clicking item.

Thankyou I’ve just been told how to bypass the inverter on the carthago owners club

I think you are onto something thx

 

[Lenny HB]

Is the inverter output wired to a changeover relay/contactor that swaps your mains sockets over to the inverter when not on EHU. If so it could be the relay that's the problem.
I would isolate the inverter, disconnect 12v supply and the 240v output and see if it still does it.

 

[Zepp]

Is the inverter output wired to a changeover relay/contactor that swaps your mains sockets over to the inverter when not on EHU. If so it could be the relay that's the problem.
I would isolate the inverter, disconnect 12v supply and the 240v output and see if it still does it.done it Lenny

Is the inverter output wired to a changeover relay/contactor that swaps your mains sockets over to the inverter when not on EHU. If so it could be the relay that's the problem.
I would isolate the inverter, disconnect 12v supply and the 240v output and see if it still does it.

Just done it Lenny pulled the two plugs and clipped them together to maintain the 240 circuit time will tell

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