2.5mm orange cable.... Where to buy

[Techno]

Broken Link Removed

Required for correct operation of over current protection.
RCD as Lenny said will protect you from earth leakage unless you contact both live & neutral at once.

 

[Gorse Hill]

Do you need 2.5mm?

Most sits are limited to 6A or 10A anyway.

Peter

The regs say 2.5 and HOR7 or HOR5 min requirement

 

[Gorse Hill]

Nothing wrong with blue arctic cable. Its got 2.5mm conductors the same as the orange. The blue just stays flexible down to very low temperatures.

Artic blue goes not have BASEC approval

 

[Gorse Hill]

Not completely accurate some RCD's (MEM) for one do have a functional Earth as do RCBO

No it doesn't RCD is a residual current device with detects an imbalance of current between live and neutral. If the current out flowing around the circuit does not equal the return current it will trip, i.e. You grab a live wire and some current will flow through you to earth so the return current will be less than the outgoing current so the RCD will trip.
The RCD is only connected on the live & neutral lines there is no connection to earth. The trip switch on the RCD just connects some resistors in circuit internally in the device to give a current imbalance to test the action of the RCD and serves no other purpose, it is a crude test and does not guaranty the RCD is fully functional.

The RCD is to complement electrical safety and not to be used as a substitute for a correctly maintained earth.
I have to concede that the RCD device does not require an earth to operate

 

[Bobby22]

Hi all,

is there any reason not to use say 2.5mm blue arctic cable? as I can get it for £44 for a 100m roll,

I have just been given enough fittings to make up 3 leads of varying lenghts plus a RCD protected hookup point to connect just outside the garage.

Andy

Many sites require orange cable as standard......so they can look out for it when cutting the grass. The CC recommend Orange.

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[ABZSteve]

Is this OK? carry case included
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B004NC9638/?tag=mhf04-21

 

[Gorse Hill]

Is this OK? carry case included
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B004NC9638/?tag=mhf04-21

Yes, and it's from a reputable UK company

 

[Gorse Hill]

I rarely use EHU when I do carry a lead. It's 1.5 mm, 2.5 is far too heavy and awkward to use. don't see what earth loop impedance has to do with it as you are protected by an RCD in the van

Whilst an RCD may help the circuit to comply with the Zs requirements (Earth loop impedance) , what of the short circuit impedance i.e. L-N fault?

 

[Deleted member 29692]

Whilst an RCD may help the circuit to comply with the Zs requirements (Earth loop impedance) , what of the short circuit impedance i.e. L-N fault?

Cable size makes no difference to what happens if there is a L-N dead short. That's what the circuit protective device (fuse or circuit breaker) is for. By definition if this fault occurs there is no impedance or resistance.

 

[Deleted member 29692]

I suppose using 1.5 will have an effect on volt drop though so you would be limited to a shorter lead. Anyone want to do the calcs?

EDIT: If you go with 4% and a 16A load max length using 1.5mm is 20 metres, max length using 2.5mm is 33 metres if the volt drop figures I found are up to date.

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[scotjimland]

I suppose using 1.5 will have an effect on volt drop though so you would be limited to a shorter lead. Anyone want to do the calcs?

as you would expect , 1.5mm cable has double the volt drop of 2.5 at 16A

I used the nearest AWG sizes from this table http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/awg-wire-gauge-d_731.html

an the calculator from this site http://www.rapidtables.com/calc/wire/voltage-drop-calculator.htm

 

[Gizmouk]

Working on:
25m cable run
3KW load
2.5mm gives 5.2V volt drop
1.5mm gives 8.5v volt drop

 

[Techno]

The line earth loop resistance (impedance) affects the tripping time of the over current device in the event of leakage to earth. High resistance makes reaction time slower. This is why the regs have a set of tables giving maximum Zs values for each type & size of device.
This is where the regs people get their 2.5mm (at 25 metres length) from for a 16 amp circuit breaker

 

[scotjimland]

I think there is enough interest on this topic to justify a group..

Titled:

"All you need to know about hook-up cable but were afraid to ask"

Suggested Thread Topics.

Why 2.5mm
Why Orange
Why Not Blue
Why not Black
What is BASEC approval and how does it affect me
What is an RCD and how does it work.
Comparative volt drops
How to connect to a Spanish EHU
Is reverse polarity dangerous.. how do I check
What is the correct procedure for deploying and recovering a hook-up cable
What are the dangers of leaving it coiled up when using.
Why do the French not give a stuff and use any old extension cable..
Do CC wardens check cable colour.. will I be banned if I don't use orange ?
Can I connect two 25mt cables together.
How to take care of and maintain an EHU cable
Can I use a hook-up cable on Marine Parade, Dover

 

[Lenny HB]

Not completely accurate some RCD's (MEM) for one do have a functional Earth as do RCBO

Dissagree they are Earth Leakage Relays and are not used in Caravans or Motorhomes.

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[Gorse Hill]

Dissagree they are Earth Leakage Relays and are not used in Caravans or Motorhomes.

I know the difference between RCD's and ELCB
MEM and a small number of manufactures have a functional Earth on RCD's

 

[Gorse Hill]

I think there is enough interest on this topic to justify a group..

Titled:

"All you need to know about hook-up cable but were afraid to ask"

Suggested Thread Topics.

Why 2.5mm
Why Orange
Why Not Blue
Why not Black
What is BASEC approval and how does it affect me
What is an RCD and how does it work.
Comparative volt drops
How to connect to a Spanish EHU
Is reverse polarity dangerous.. how do I check
What is the correct procedure for deploying and recovering a hook-up cable
What are the dangers of leaving it coiled up when using.
Why do the French not give a stuff and use any old extension cable..
Do CC wardens check cable colour.. will I be banned if I don't use orange ?
Can I connect two 25mt cables together.
How to take care of and maintain an EHU cable
Can I use a hook-up cable on Marine Parade, Dover

All the above are covered in the regs, the only time it will be an issue is when someone either dies or seriouly injured then the regs can be used against you in a court of law

 

[scotjimland]

All the above are covered in the regs, the only time it will be an issue is when someone either dies or seriouly injured then the regs can be used against you in a court of law

yes.. I know they are.. well most of them are..
it was meant as a bit of fun.. .. the clue was in the last line

how can a question about where to buy a hook-up cable last three pages, ... only on Fun..

 

[Lenny HB]

I know the difference between RCD's and ELCB
MEM and a small number of manufactures have a functional Earth on RCD's

I did check the current MEM catalog before posting, doesn't really matter as far as I know they are not fitted in Motorhomes.

 

[dippingatoe]

Many thanks for all the replies (most of which mean very little to me but are pushing me to expand my knowledge a little!) but as there is so much interest I have been asked to post if anyone has the latest

IET Wiring Regulations (BS7671:2008 Incorporating Amendment Number 3:2015) (Guidance Note)

All users of the IET Wiring Regulations need to be aware of the coming changes in Amendment No. 3 to the 17th Edition (BS 7671:2008+A3:2015). Potentially life-saving changes are proposed making this a vital update. These changes are expected to include (but are not limited to) amendments in the following areas: Consumer units (to come into effect January 2016) Wiring in escape routes Changes to earth fault loop impedances for all protective devices Updated EIC and EICR forms Changes to definitions throughout the Regulations Amendment No. 3 publishes on 5 January 2015 and comes into effect on 1 July 2015. All new installations from this point must comply with Amendment No. 3 to BS 7671:2008.

Particularly those parts relating to our particular field of interest as motorhomers

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[Techno]

Yet another course to do

 

[scotjimland]

Yet another course to do

glad I'm retired..

 

[Techno]

Glad I'm semi
Courses are easy it's the Health and safety bullshit that makes work a real chore especially when it's basically children telling you how to do a job Oh Please!
A whole culture of arse covering .
I don't miss it

 

[Shovelheadrob]

I think there is enough interest on this topic to justify a group..

Titled:

"All you need to know about hook-up cable but were afraid to ask"

Suggested Thread Topics.

Why 2.5mm
Why Orange
Why Not Blue
Why not Black
What is BASEC approval and how does it affect me
What is an RCD and how does it work.
Comparative volt drops
How to connect to a Spanish EHU
Is reverse polarity dangerous.. how do I check
What is the correct procedure for deploying and recovering a hook-up cable
What are the dangers of leaving it coiled up when using.
Why do the French not give a stuff and use any old extension cable..
Do CC wardens check cable colour.. will I be banned if I don't use orange ?
Can I connect two 25mt cables together.
How to take care of and maintain an EHU cable
Can I use a hook-up cable on Marine Parade, Dover

Don't forget 2.5mm Yellow Arctic cable (as in 110v site stuff) that's what I use as I bought several drums to make up 110v extension cables, it's closer to orange than blue!

 

[Gorse Hill]

yes.. I know they are.. well most of them are..
it was meant as a bit of fun.. .. the clue was in the last line

how can a question about where to buy a hook-up cable last three pages, ... only on Fun..

I know it's meant to be fun, however were talking about a serious subject and it's important that information people are giving should be accurate, otherwise the consequences are dire

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[scotjimland]

I know it's meant to be fun, however were talking about a serious subject and it's important that information people are giving should be accurate, otherwise the consequences are dire

absolutely.. why I suggested buying a commercially made up cable in my first post...

.. saves the risk of
a) using the wrong type cable
b) connecting the plug and or socket incorrectly.. and having a lethal cable


I am of the opinion it's better not to give electrical advice to amateurs, especially 230v, and bamboozle them with regulations and electrical principals they haven't got a clue about.. that is why all domestic mains appliances now come fitted with a 13A moulded rubber plug ..

 

[Gorse Hill]

I did check the current MEM catalog before posting, doesn't really matter as far as I know they are not fitted in Motorhomes.

No it doesn't RCD is a residual current device with detects an imbalance of current between live and neutral. If the current out flowing around the circuit does not equal the return current it will trip, i.e. You grab a live wire and some current will flow through you to earth so the return current will be less than the outgoing current so the RCD will trip.
The RCD is only connected on the live & neutral lines there is no connection to earth. The trip switch on the RCD just connects some resistors in circuit internally in the device to give a current imbalance to test the action of the RCD and serves no other purpose, it is a crude test and does not guaranty the RCD is fully functional.

To be honest you indicate that not having an Earth on an RCD, because it will work without, is not helpful to individuals who don't know and are looking for advice (I have posted what problems can occur without an earth)
You then say the current range of MEM RCD don't have functional Earth, this might be true but last year range did and how can you say they have never been used by any manufacture of caravan M/H in the last 20yrs is just not accurate
The CPC is the most important of all connections in ANY installation and even if some RCD will operate without an earth it doesn't help to inform people who are not aware of the importance of the earth connection of this fact

 

[gus-lopez]

I was advised 30+ years ago to ensure that before connecting the ehu to physically earth the MH using a copper rod & connected to the 240v earth on the van. I always did & would still do the same today.
I have 4 x 25m leads in many fetching colours . Unfortunately orange isn't one of them !

 

[scotjimland]

before connecting the ehu to physically earth the MH using a copper rod & connected to the 240v earth on the van.

that must be a bugger on concrete hard standings

 

[gus-lopez]

that must be a bugger on concrete hard standings

Never occurred to me as I've never parked anywhere on hard standing?

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