12v shutdown on niesmann bischoff flair HELP

[Stanbrook]

Having disconnected my solar panels and all the attached leisure and starting batteries for 15 mins. My PC210 cbe panel still would not work properly following dead leisure batteries. The only cure l found was a new PC 210 panel. Just make sure the replacement has the same suffix as the one you are replacing.

 

[funflair]

My cbe charger has a fuse in it.

but I also think I've seen a method for rebooting the cbe panel, that's why I was prompting @funflair. Do you recall it Martin?

I can't find any reference and don't know of any reboot procedure Jon the manual says that the system will automatically reconnect at 12.5 volts.

Martin

 

[TinaLes]

I did recommend to to a few Funsters with Electrobloc & CBE systems that if all else fails and there is definitely a fault with either the control panel or main fuse board that they call Apuljack Engineering in Dorset. They specialise in the upgrades and repair of these and other systems like Sargent.
Travelworld & other dealers cannot test down to component level on circuit boards so it either works or if not "needs replacement".
The costs they quoted Abicist were as expected very high, so he took it to Apuljack engineering, they did a test and survey charged approx £67 and then a fixed quote of I think £220 to repair and upgrade charger, CBE main Panel & Control board, with a one year warranty.It was a lot cheaper than the cost of replacement from TW.
Abicist costs were covered under his extended warranty, thats why he needed an initial survey report carried out to present to the insurers for the go ahead, which I believe he got.
Hope that helps
Les

 

[Zepp]

Thankyou zepp rang reliant this afternoon they are in touch with factory who say they think the control panel is in a tizzy abit like me at the moment and it needs resetting but didn’t say how so we wait till tomorrow when they should send the reset procedure then if it doesn’t work there is probably something more expensive wrong
UnfortunatelyReliant can’t get us in till end of may.
Just opening bottle of red think I’m gonna need it .Will update tomorrow thankyou for all your help


Teresa

Glad you have them on the case they are a good bunch of guys . Im sure they will sort it for you and yes they are always busy , even other dealers send vans to them for repairs.

 

[funflair]

I did recommend to to a few Funsters with Electrobloc & CBE systems that if all else fails and there is definitely a fault with either the control panel or main fuse board that they call Apuljack Engineering in Dorset. They specialise in the upgrades and repair of these and other systems like Sargent.
Travelworld & other dealers cannot test down to component level on circuit boards so it either works or if not "needs replacement".
The costs they quoted Abicist were as expected very high, so he took it to Apuljack engineering, they did a test and survey charged approx £67 and then a fixed quote of I think £220 to repair and upgrade charger, CBE main Panel & Control board, with a one year warranty.It was a lot cheaper than the cost of replacement from TW.
Abicist costs were covered under his extended warranty, thats why he needed an initial survey report carried out to present to the insurers for the go ahead, which I believe he got.
Hope that helps
Les

Except in the end they could fix it and I think the bill was over £800 plus VAT.

The common denominator in these two cases seems to be allowing the batteries to go completely flat, these systems have a phased shut down of the 12v system as the battery voltage gets critical it shuts off the least important function, all this is great but of course it needs to wake up again when it has power back on.

Martin

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[haganap]

If I were you I would email the factory direct with a full list of the issues that you have and give them as much information that you can about the remedial actions that you have taken to resolve the issues. I have done this twice now and they have been extremely helpful and resolved both issues. On one occassion they told me exactly what part was required to repair and I simply ordered it via travel world with the part number the factory gave me. Got it delivered to the door and replaced part myself and problem solved just like I was promised.

This is a far better option than sending anything to travelworld who to be frank are quite clueless and will probably ring the factory anyway.

 

[sallylillian]

I have accessed the deep engineer level menu on my unit by pressing and holding the prog button with another, cannot remember which, I will pop to the van this morning and see. But maybe my unit is different to yours? @funflair

 

[sillybug]

Thankyou everybody for your help .Not much of an update yet other than we have decided not to go to Trevel world .We are now awaiting a call from Reliant who have already emailed Germany and are awaiting there return message hopefully with the reset ,if after that it won’t reset then will maybe talk to apuljack for advice ,will update as soon as we here .


Teresa

 

[funflair]

I have accessed the deep engineer level menu on my unit by pressing and holding the prog button with another, cannot remember which, I will pop to the van this morning and see. But maybe my unit is different to yours? @funflair

Very

You still have to shovel coal into ours Michael.

Martin

 

[canopus]

With reference to TW they should know there way around the CBE system as N+B vans have had it on for years, I don’t know that that many other vans use CBE so a lot of dealers and service engineers could well be stuck trying to diagnose it, Marcel leisure are agents for CBE so may be able to suggest an engineer, just a long shot @sillybug

Might be worth taking the cover off the distribution box, should be in your left side locker under the seat and then just give the relays a gentle tap with the head of a screwdriver or similar just to unstick anything that is/might be stuck.

Martin

There are loads of Motorhome makes which use CBE Control Panels Martin, Concorde being one of many.

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[funflair]

There are loads of Motorhome makes which use CBE Control Panels Martin, Concorde being one of many.

I think you right actually Ken I knew about Concorde but thought they most likely wouldn't want to go down to Portsmouth even though their electrical guy is supposed to be very good, then I thought actually there are loads of vans use CBE but I didn't bother correcting myself

Martin

 

[sillybug]

Just a thought would it be possible for the charger to have a problem without it blowing a fuse .The fan in the charger is working and it charges the batteries when on hookup but not on 12v .Please remember I don’t have a clue about such things but if that was the problem would that lead to the control panel getting confused .

Teresa

 

[haganap]

There are loads of Motorhome makes which use CBE Control Panels Martin, Concorde being one of many.

quite right, whatever the motorhome, most are made of the same bits, same fridges, cookers, electroblocs etc etc. So any respectable motor home dealer should be able to assist.

 

[funflair]

@sillybug The charger only charges you batteries on hook up, when driving they should receive a charge from the alternator, you should get a symbol with a G in to tell you the alternator is generating.

I don't think this issue will be charger related.

Martin

 

[sillybug]

ok not heard from reliant yet so investigating again starting again to see weather we have missed anything .
So now checking cab fuses and alternator cant get control panel to work properly because something seems to be telling it that the batteries have no charge but they are new and are fully charged so we think maybe if we can find whats telling the control panel the wrong info we could get the panel to work ,what do you think



Teresa

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[funflair]

ok not heard from reliant yet so investigating again starting again to see weather we have missed anything .
So now checking cab fuses and alternator cant get control panel to work properly because something seems to be telling it that the batteries have no charge but they are new and are fully charged so we think maybe if we can find whats telling the control panel the wrong info we could get the panel to work ,what do you think



Teresa

I agree with what you say but I think the message about battery voltage will be coming from one of the CBE Distribution boxes, I guess you have two like us DS 340HY and DS 540HY.

Martin

 

[SuperMike]

If in trouble or in doubt, give the bloody thing a clout. It's lump hammer time.

I know, I'm sorry.

 

[sillybug]

Would really like to give it a good clout dont think that would fix it but i may feel better.
Martin yes almost identicle now looking to see cost unless it has to come from germany



Teresa

 

[Onemanandhisdog]

Where does the CBE panel get its power from, the engine battery?

It might be worth cutting power to everything for 20 or 30 mins then reconnecting in some sort of logical order which I couldn't begin to explain as I'm guessing!!

 

[funflair]

Where does the CBE panel get its power from, the engine battery?

It might be worth cutting power to everything for 20 or 30 mins then reconnecting in some sort of logical order which I couldn't begin to explain as I'm guessing!!

I the CBE box of trick left hand black box in my photo there are connection for battery B1 starter and battery B2 leisure this box then feeds the Right hand black box with 12v which ultimately powers the control panel, it is the habitation batteries that run the system though as it will all shut off if you remove/isolate the hab batteries.

Martin

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[funflair]

Would really like to give it a good clout dont think that would fix it but i may feel better.
Martin yes almost identicle now looking to see cost unless it has to come from germany



Teresa

I would resist temptation to hit it too hard but if it was me I would take off the two black covers DC340HY and DC540HY and I would tap anything that looks like it might benefit from a tap and waggle anything that look like it might enjoy a waggle, be gentle though.

Will the panel display a voltage and if it will what does it say, or is it dead?

Martin

 

[TinaLes]

Except in the end they could fix it and I think the bill was over £800 plus VAT.

The common denominator in these two cases seems to be allowing the batteries to go completely flat, these systems have a phased shut down of the 12v system as the battery voltage gets critical it shuts off the least important function, all this is great but of course it needs to wake up again when it has power back on.

Martin

Hi Martin
Shocked at the Apuljack repair bill @£800, not sure if your post said they did or couldn't fix it for Abicist?He had a F;air also from memory I think.
I cant remember seeing the later part of his ongoing issues, so assumed Apuljack had fixed his problem, and that his insurance company had covered the quoted cost of £220 + a few pounds?
So why did it cost him £800? if they had quoted a lower amount, did not honour that?
Bit disappointing if they didn't, I await the details, before recommending their services anymore.
PS: Carthago fit CBE as thats what we have, and theres me thinking it was a lot simpler & Reliable than an Electroblock

I hope @sillybug gets some answers soon, as it doesn't seem right that just because the leisure batts run flat that it screws up the whole CBE system, to the extent that he is experiencing.
I can understand the good old "Hard Reset" like computers, turn it off, wait a bit then turn it on again, maybe even disconnecting/reconnecting batteries in sequence, but that should be as much as you need to do, anything else is just a Faff.
I haven't looked in The Carthago owners handbook,for a restart/reset sequence cos being a bloke thats the last place I would go to
Good luck with getting to the bottom of this,I hope TW have some answers rather than just straight replacement.
Les
Just remembered and must add to this, that I have disconnected and reconnected the leisure batts a few times in the past year, while doing some electrical additions to the van, each time I isolated the CBE simply by turning it off at the control panel. When finished I reconnected the batts, turned on the control panel, switched on 12 volt power to interior, and luckily all was well. So I am now thinking that should the battery levels fall to the extent that the CBE switches off all 12V supplies, then there is a lot more to know and discover about the reset procedure, which is somewhat worrying for all of us.
Lets hope we can all learn something by this problem that @sillybug is experiencing.
Les (again)

 

[jongood]

Many are the same but not seen elektroblock in N&B, usually CBE

quite right, whatever the motorhome, most are made of the same bits, same fridges, cookers, electroblocs etc etc. So any respectable motor home dealer should be able to assist.[/QUOTE

 

[jongood]

Many are the same but not seen elektroblock in N&B, usually CBE

quite right, whatever the motorhome, most are made of the same bits, same fridges, cookers, electroblocs etc etc. So any respectable motor home dealer should be able to assist.[/QUOTE

 

[jongood]

My CBE Charger has a fuse inside it, you have to under the 2 screws and remove the cover to get at it. Have you checked this one @sillybug ?

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[funflair]

Hi Martin
Shocked at the Apuljack repair bill @£800, not sure if your post said they did or couldn't fix it for Abicist?He had a F;air also from memory I think.
I cant remember seeing the later part of his ongoing issues, so assumed Apuljack had fixed his problem, and that his insurance company had covered the quoted cost of £220 + a few pounds?
So why did it cost him £800? if they had quoted a lower amount, did not honour that?
Bit disappointing if they didn't, I await the details, before recommending their services anymore.
PS: Carthago fit CBE as thats what we have, and theres me thinking it was a lot simpler & Reliable than an Electroblock

I hope @sillybug gets some answers soon, as it doesn't seem right that just because the leisure batts run flat that it screws up the whole CBE system, to the extent that he is experiencing.
I can understand the good old "Hard Reset" like computers, turn it off, wait a bit then turn it on again, maybe even disconnecting/reconnecting batteries in sequence, but that should be as much as you need to do, anything else is just a Faff.
I haven't looked in The Carthago owners handbook,for a restart/reset sequence cos being a bloke thats the last place I would go to
Good luck with getting to the bottom of this,I hope TW have some answers rather than just straight replacement.
Les
Just remembered and must add to this, that I have disconnected and reconnected the leisure batts a few times in the past year, while doing some electrical additions to the van, each time I isolated the CBE simply by turning it off at the control panel. When finished I reconnected the batts, turned on the control panel, switched on 12 volt power to interior, and luckily all was well. So I am now thinking that should the battery levels fall to the extent that the CBE switches off all 12V supplies, then there is a lot more to know and discover about the reset procedure, which is somewhat worrying for all of us.
Lets hope we can all learn something by this problem that @sillybug is experiencing.
Les (again)

It's here if you want to catch up Les,

https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/foru...-cbe-distribution-unit-fuse-box.191745/page-6

Martin

 

[TinaLes]

Thanks Martin for the update.
So it now looks like regardless of any Engineering company having the knowledge & Skills to repair anything down to component level, unless they are privie to the software downloads/updates they are screwed, therefore the client is also.
It looks like CBE either wont or cannot offer a software update/download to any external source either.
I know it has been frustrating to say the least for@Abicist it certainly as been a roller coaster ride for him, but at least he was covered for the most part of the costs.
I wonder how he got on fitting the new units when and IF they arrived.
Fingers crossed for him.
Les

 

[sillybug]

What a day i have had as you no i was waiting for a call from chris at reliance today and bad luck or just a jinx we had a power cut for the first time in years no phone no internet can it get any worse oh yes oh yes it can i should of known bottom line if apuljack can find and fix problem should cost 2-3 hundred if its unfixable and both units are kaput we will be looking at around 1300-1500 hundred this on top of 2 new batteries when this is fixed we wont be able to afford to put any diesel in it .


Thanks again for all your input

Teresa

 

[sillybug]

And thats with us doing the workto put it all together again

 

[funflair]

I would certainly be asking the factory what they know about this problem, they must have seen in lots of times I would have thought.

Martin

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