‘Bailey’ PS306-6A-BC & Victron Bluesmart Charger

[CraftyPete]

I’ve taken the plunge and removed a fair bit of trim in the new to us MH. I have a PS306-6A-BC charger fitted. Seems to have dual outputs, one for charging (lead acid) battery and the other is a transformer running 12V appliances whilst on EHU. A third thin white cable provides mains sense (somewhere). I’ve read elsewhere here that the red/black pair charge the leisure battery, the yellow/black pair are transformer output to 12V appliances. Now, the PS306 has no lithium profile selection. Would it work if I did the following: 1. Disconnect red/black pair from leisure battery. 2. Connect Victron bluesmart charger to leisure battery. 3. Leave the PS306 in situ to run the standard 12V stuff, transformed from EHU. 4. Run anything new from Lithium. ?? I have a nasty feeling I’m missing something obvious here.

Pete

 

[The Artilleryman]

It will be easier if you leave the psu side connected, as the pcb is designed to run that way - can't remember which 2 are are the psu leads, mines dead due to an error on my part.

The leads are connected to the pcb as chg1 & chg2 and gnd, and the thin white wire connects to ps sig.

Just be aware that the 2 pairs of cables going to the battery are :-

1. battery charging/off grid power
2. split charge relay - which in mine is in the drivers door pillar, behind the drivers seat. Not easy to identify as the cable starts of as 20mm and by the time it gets to the door pillar it's 8mm.

Be sure to mount your new charger solidly as it's quite heavy - I'll put a strengthening plate on the bulkhead behind the passenger seat and run new leads to the battery - that's plan A.

Plan B will re use the split charge leads (disconnected from the split charge relay) with a bus bar under the wardrobe.

But first I'll have to sort out why my electrics are dead.

 

[autorouter]

Would it work if I did the following: 1. Disconnect red/black pair from leisure battery. 2. Connect Victron bluesmart charger to leisure battery. 3. Leave the PS306 in situ to run the standard 12V stuff, transformed from EHU. 4. Run anything new from Lithium. ?? I have a nasty feeling I’m missing something obvious here.

I don't know the details of this unit, but I imagine that if the EHU is unplugged, there is an arrangement for the leisure battery to be connected to the habitation circuits. Probably a relay somewhere just inside the unit near those wires. I don't think your new connections would do that.

 

[The Artilleryman]

A quick photo of the psu cables and the pcb.

 

[CraftyPete]

I’m now thinking of ditching the included PSU altogether. On our old Chausson, I faked the S+ with a 500mA driver. The Victron is a 30A charger, more than up to the job (and has that Li profile). Easy enough to test. I guess the harder bit will be disabling the Split Relay.

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[The Artilleryman]

Split relay is in the door pillar electrics, not easy to get to as the seat frame is in the way for easy access.

 

[The Artilleryman]

CHG1 is the psu connection and powers fuses :- f1 boiler, f2 fridge ignition, f3 van battery & f13control panels - the fuse nos. are the printed ones on the pcb, numbering is all over the place, they do not run consecutively.

PS SIG not sure what this connects to as this is a socket not shown on my wiring block diagram - kindly sent to me by another funster and may be for an Eldis.

This is the start of my upgrade

 

[autorouter]

PS SIG not sure what this connects to as this is a socket not shown on my wiring block diagram - kindly sent to me by another funster and may be for an Eldis.

Very likely to be for a 12V 'signal' output from some chargers. It is used to display an icon to show that 240V power is connected and working. You can probably live without it, I would think.

 

[CraftyPete]

Really scratching my head on this one - I have splinters. Seems the PSU has to remain in place, even if not powered... Yes, two sets of very thing cables connect to the twin lead acid class c batteries (that need to come out). Battling to identify which set of wires are the split relay (which I'll have to disconnect) and which set goes between battery bank and PDU. The lithium battery, B2B, solar charger & lithium compatible mains charger remain on standby. Anyone got any tips here?

 

[The Artilleryman]

Yes, leave psu in place and disconnect yellow/white plug from psu lead.
Good luck with split charge relay, I'm stumped as well.
Will probably use a relay to disconnect green wire from converters plug (green & white/brown pair).
Will post more later this evening.

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[CraftyPete]

So... brain erm 'wave'. Looks like the solution is fairly easy really. Leave the existing PSU in place, disconnect the mains kettle plug from it (it does draw some small amount of mA). Remove the old leisure battery, I then have the two sets of wires. One will go back into the PDU, this one will just get connected to the bus bars. The second set then has to be the split relay pair - somehow disable this pair and then connect all up. Is there an easy-ish way to test that the fridge still works on 12V with engine running?

 

[The Artilleryman]

Sorry to rain on your parade, but not going to work.
You still need the psu as it provides hab. power on EHU.

I'm just off back out to finish off pulling the BMV 712 wiring through and refit the bathroom .
I'll take some photo's and we can put our heads together to see if we can sort out the split charge relay.

Other than split charge relay mines all working.

 

[autorouter]

Sorry to rain on your parade, but not going to work.
You still need the psu as it provides hab. power on EHU.

Again not knowing the details, I would think that if you disconnected the EHU supply to the PS306, then the PS306 will think there is no EHU supply. It should then do whatever it does when you are parked off-grid, ie connect the leisure battery to the habitation circuits. Isn't that exactly what you want?

The Victron charger can go directly to the leisure battery, the PS306 will never know the EHU is connected, and doesn't need to know.

 

[The Artilleryman]

It will, but its designed as a 20A psu for hab. electrics on EHU with a 6A charge to the leisure battery.
I'm trying to leave it as close to design to lessen the risk of unknown (and difficult to trace) faults.
Currently I have a loose connection, which cuts the hab. electrics. Hopefully after I screw the PDU back down I will be able to trace it.

 

[The Artilleryman]

CraftyPete I see your IP22 charger has 3 outputs, does this mean you can supply power to 3 different circuits at the same time ?
If so problem solved use 2 outputs ditch the ps306, only slight problem might be the 2 -ve are combined on one connecter.

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[The Artilleryman]

This is a bit untidy, but will be tie wrapped and taped up shortly.

As can be seen, I had to take the front of the wardrobe off.

The disconnected socket is the original feed from the starter battery via the converters socket. Now fed by the B2B - good steady 30A feed to the LiFePO4.

Still can't work out the split charge relay, latest plan is/was to use a relay to cut the starter battery feed on start up, BUT I think this will kill the D+ feed to the B2B.

Peugeot/Fiat do not use a normal D+ but us pin 2 on the converters plug to ground as D+ - and even that's missing on Bailey MH's.

There is a D+ here, but cannot trace it's origin, but if converters plug is disconnected D+ is gone. All I'm trying to do is stop the feed back loop (hope that's the right term, somebody please correct me if I'm using the wrong term)

 

[CraftyPete]

CraftyPete I see your IP22 charger has 3 outputs, does this mean you can supply power to 3 different circuits at the same time ?
If so problem solved use 2 outputs ditch the ps306, only slight problem might be the 2 -ve are combined on one connecter.

Sorry to rain on your parade, but not going to work.
You still need the psu as it provides hab. power on EHU.

I'm just off back out to finish off pulling the BMV 712 wiring through and refit the bathroom .
I'll take some photo's and we can put our heads together to see if we can sort out the split charge relay.

Other than split charge relay mines all working.

I'm going to leave the PSU in and on, but remove the leisure battery charging plug - different battery chemistries/profiles. The IP22 charger does have three outputs (ordered in error, only £10 extra though) - it does not have two very useful features 1. differing battery chemistry/charge profile 2. ability to set one output up ac charger, while having another one being a PSU.

 

[CraftyPete]

I'd be happy to terminate the cable from the split relay into an empty fuse holder instead of on battery if boils down to doing that.

 

[The Artilleryman]

Split charge relay sorted - I think, will confirm when parts arrive and are fitted - the feed form the converters socket (large green wire) needs a nc relay in it control from B2B output to open relay.

I had misidentified the D+ wire on the converters multi pin socket - and not checked it with engine running.

DO NOT follow this UNTIL I post it is correct.

Now all I need to do is sort out the built in charger problem. But first I'm going to collect my wheels and tyres.

 

[CraftyPete]

I had an auto electrician out yesterday, fitment of new radio (nice Apple Play unit). I asked him for assistance on the split relay issue. He was able to simplify things within minutes - there is one 50A fuse that needs to be removed - no split relay charging. If only the mains were so easy... removal of either pair of wires from PSU means no 12V electrics, at all. If the PSU remains in place, but with mains disconnected, all works. (Things like 13A AC sockets, Truma Unit, etc. work on EHU regardless - I'm happy to lose the EHU icon and warning buzzer to be honest. If it want it back, I'll install the driver into the S+ line. I'll post a pic or three later.

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[CraftyPete]

This is the fuse. With it removed, the split relay can do what it likes, but it won't be charging the Lithium battery.

 

[The Artilleryman]

Is that the corrugated tube that comes across the van from drivers B post ?
If so mines slightly different in that the wires are green (+ve) & white/brown (-ve), are there any other wires apart from the white/brown in that tube ?

Just got back from collecting wheels and tyres, off out to the MH now.

 

[The Artilleryman]

Ignore posts #6 & #19 they are wrong.

Thank you CraftyPete I've now sorted my split charge relay, although removing the fuse (30A) does not cancel the the lights turning off when the engine is running. I had also misidentified the D+ at the B pillar.

This is my feed from the B pillar

They split like this

And I think I may have pulled the plug rather than remove the fuse (having a dodgy connection elsewhere, may have given a false reading)

Lastly a photo of my converters socket (B pillar)

 

[The Artilleryman]

I'm thinking of trying something with an nc relay, but won't have time for a day or so.

 

[The Artilleryman]

All we need is a reliable 12v feed ONLY when EHU connected.

What is needed is an NC relay to open when on EHU - so only IP22 is charging the hab. battery - but closed at all other times allowing normal off grid operation.

Similar to D+ but controlled by EHU not engine.

Hope this makes sense.

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[autorouter]

All we need is a reliable 12v feed ONLY when EHU connected.

Those relay coil connections are the wrong way round. There is a diode, which means the polarity of the connections is important. The supply should be connected so that in normal circumstances nothing flows through the diode. The diode 'arrow' shows the direction of forward current flow. So 86 should be positive and 85 should be negative.

When the current through the coil is switched off, the coil produces a voltage spike because it acts like a small induction coil. The voltage spike is in the opposite direction to the normal current flow. At that point the diode will allow the (reversed) current to flow through it, effectively shorting out the spike and dissipating it. It protects the rest of the circuit from the voltage spike.

 

[The Artilleryman]

Just quickly grabbed a diagram to show what we need

 

[autorouter]

If you're having difficulty finding an NC relay - they are not very common - you could use a 5-terminal (changeover) relay, which has both NO and NC connections, and just ignore the NO terminal.

 

[The Artilleryman]

That's what I'm going to use, it's just making it simple for others to follow.
Relay isn't the problem, it's finding a 12v feed that's only live when on EHU and has NO connection to anything else on the charging circuits.

Short term answer is to pull the "van battery" fuse on the fuse board.

 

[autorouter]

Relay isn't the problem, it's finding a 12v feed that's only live when on EHU and has NO connection to anything else on the charging circuits.

You could get a relay with a 5V coil, and use a mains USB charger. Most perple seem to have half a dozen old chargers stuck in a drawer somewhere.

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