£40,000 Motorhome stolen. Police not interested. Insurers won’t pay up.

[Lenny HB]

In the days when a Ford key was almost a universal pass key for all Fords!

I had a, Sierra it came with a plastic emergency key it was mounted in a plastic card so you could keep it in your wallet it would open any Ford of that era.

 

[Puddleduck]

.We also had a school minibus (Transit?) that had sliding windows. All that held the sliding windows closed was a little metal catch that could be up (window locked) or down (window can slide). Hitting the window firmly on the outside would joggle the catch enough that it fell into the unlocked position and you were in Handy when you arrived back at the minibus in the rain and the teacher in charge wasn't back yet. When he did arrive and asked how you got in it was all 'oh, you left it unlocked, sir!'

Our school had one of those as well but one of the teachers had tightened the catch so a tool made from a couple of the ring pulls from soft drinks cans was required.

When I was at university I found all the yale type locks on the room doors of our student flat had been installed incorrectly and a bank card applied in the correct manner would open most of the room doors. It saved a number of people a fine for locking keys in their rooms.

 

[Odd job]

There's probably a bit more to that story I guess.

The cops who found the stolen car were from the midlands, they found it whilst it was moving and as it failed to stop they used a "stinger" to force it to stop. It was the Met cops that told the Midlands cops to let them go.

 

[SpeedyDux]

I think people often relax their guard at rallies - I know I have. But sadly at a show last year the van next to me had various lights stolen from their awning, and at another show there were a whole load of thefts of all sorts of bits including van trim!!

You might assume that all ralliers are all honest folk. You can't be certain.

Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's genny, lights, accessories ...

On a slightly different note, I found a Nissan remote key lying on the pavement. I walked to the nearest Police Station. It wasn't manned. Front door was locked. A sign on the door said to use the adjacent phone - which connected you with a civilian, probably somewhere miles away. Not really interested - just post the key through the letterbox. It would have been much easier to walk to the nearest public car park, keep pressing the key to see which Nissan it belonged to, then TWOC the car for a joyride.

 

[Maudy]

I get to carry both sets , one in my bag and the other in a secure coat pocket , hubby says

“ Your bag could be stolen but They’re hardly going to nick you are they ? And if they do they’ll soon bring you back “

Cheeky sod !!

We do have an immediate warning thingy anyway
It sends a message when the ignition is turned on and exactly where it is at any time then it’s tracked and informs us when the ignition is turned off and where . It’s all shown on an interactive map as well .
Bit annoying really when he’s moving it around at home to wash it or load it etc .
I think it also warns if it’s left unlocked or is moving without being turned on . (Towed away)

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[SpeedyDux]

We've always used 'Pay at Pump' since they invented that.

Not if I can pay for fuel in cash to a human being. In the immortal words of Lord Denning MR who knew what he was talking about:

"you cannot bargain with a machine"

 

[Geistguy]

That's true they always say now that they won't pay if you're under the influence of drink or drugs. I wonder what happens about third party claims under those circumstances?

Insurers will always pay legitimate third party claims but reserve the right to reclaim expenses from their insured. It's written into all policies that the insured must take all reasonable care to protect their vehicle leaving the keys in would invalidate theft cover.

 

[Folkranger]

I assume most insurances cover lost keys, would they also cover a vehicle stolen using those lost keys?
My wife's car was once taken from our drive, with the keys. Insurance claimed that the keys had been left in and wouldn't pay. They said they wouldn't also pay if they had been dropped on the way from the car to the house front door.
My wife stuck to her guns that the keys had been taken into the house and hung on the key rack in the hall so they must have followed her in and lifted them. They eventually paid up.

In those days we, like others around us, only locked the front door at bedtime.

The car was found wrapped around a lamp post 200 yards away.

 

[iandsm]

As far as I am concerned it is a failing of the police that you cannot leave a vehicle unattended with the keys in without the prospect of it being stolen.

When I moved to Devon nearly 40 years ago it was common to see cars parked in the street with the keys in & overnight as well.It was still fairly common 20 years later when we left to move here. My son-in-laws father leaves his motorhome completly open, awning out in his garden for the grandkids to play in. the other vehicles are unlocked. the classic morris minor convertible is top down & key is under the mat
I suppose if you have a covertible they expect you to park it & put the roof on?

Insurance is for the stupid. They should pay out.

3rd part claims are written in stone & they have to pay out regardless of your circumstances. that is the basis of all vehicle insurance.

yes. double locked also

unless you are stupid enough to tell them

How many keys do you want?

No there is 8 keys for the house on a seperate key ring .the MH key ring has 9 keys on it. I carry 2 sets of each in seperate pockets always.

as above sets in each pocket

& the answer is "how would I ****ing know?"

Do they? I've never read that?

That is getting stupider.

Try double locking her in . That doesn't go down well either



Hopefully they would take the same approach if it took them that long to catch you after you battered the thieves?

"As far as I am concerned it is a failing of the police that you cannot leave a vehicle unattended with the keys in without the prospect of it being stolen."

It's rather a failing of society that things have changed since the golden days you mention, society has changed and not for the better. The police cannot be blamed for someone not taking reasonable care of themselves or their property. Unless you want a nanny state that is.

 

[Folkranger]

The police cannot be blamed for someone not taking reasonable care of themselves or their property. Unless you want a nanny state that is.

A crime is still a crime, even if the victim is unaware of the need for caution. Would you say that the police should not follow up crimes against, say, vulnerable people?

We should be talking about whether the police have enough resources, not whether the victim was to blame.

Yes I understand the need for caution, but that does in no way excuse the crime.

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[Camdoon]

...

When I was at university I found all the yale type locks on the room doors of our student flat had been installed incorrectly and a bank card applied in the correct manner would open most of the room doors. It saved a number of people a fine for locking keys in their rooms.

James Garner did that trick every week in the Rockford Files

 

[iandsm]

A crime is still a crime, even if the victim is unaware of the need for caution. Would you say that the police should not follow up crimes against, say, vulnerable people?

We should be talking about whether the police have enough resources, not whether the victim was to blame.

Yes I understand the need for caution, but that does in no way excuse the crime.

Yes, it is still a crime but an easily preventable one and no I certainly wouldn't say the police shouldn't follow up crime where the victim is a vulnerable person, in fact the opposite, and I can tell you from personal experience they do follow up that that type of crime, but that is of of course, an entirely different matter to the question of resources and how they are used.

Comparing the case of this lady with a vulnerable person being the victim of a crime, perhaps of no great value, which impacted on their wellbeing or health. Although both would have been recorded and investigated, it's a matter of degree, In my day the impact of any crime on a vulnerable person may have taken precedence over others which might have been of higher value but where the victim could have easily foreseen or prevented it. The vulnerable person may not have the capacity for one reason or another to forsee or prevent their becoming a victim and may be much more adversely affected by a similar crime where the victim is not vulnerable which is why in many, not all, cases, they may deserve priority.

Whatever our thoughts on the actions of the lady in question which undeniably were the cause of her misfortune,
I don't believe I or anyone else suggested there was any excuse for this or any other crime.

 

[Wack]

If you are in the house and someone nips in without you looking and nicks the keys to your van then surely they will pay up.

It could happen to any of us, how many people keep the doors house locked all day, whilst they are on the bog, in the shower etc.

If you leave the keys in the unlocked van yes I can see that.

A friend once asked his insurance company what 'entry by force' meant on his home insurance policy because it's impossible to open an unlocked door with the power of your mind, he wanted to know if someone walked in through an unlocked door whether he was covered

He never got a straight answer

 

[mitzimad]

Well I guess if you haven’t got it,the insurers assume it’s in the vehicle.

send them any two keys

 

[stevee2]

Motorhome reported stolen in Southampton overnight with all the owner’s possession inside , van was all locked up .

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[Peregrinator]

If you are in the house and someone nips in without you looking and nicks the keys to your van then surely they will pay up.

It could happen to any of us, how many people keep the doors house locked all day, whilst they are on the bog, in the shower etc.

If you leave the keys in the unlocked van yes I can see that.

House doors always locked, maybe not double locked, but locked.

 

[Nirvanauk]

House doors always locked, maybe not double locked, but locked.

You must live in a dodgey part of the country.

 

[Brody]

Husband is a 'locker' too and he's drilled it into us all.

He's been to fit many house alarms and CCTV after a burglary and seen some things inc. the dog being bribed with a packet of custard creams is one!

Our door is locked by everyone (inc kids) as soon as you've walked though it. We close all windows if we are out, the upstairs front ones if we are in the garden and no one is in those rooms.

The alarm is set every night when we go to bed and if we go out for the night and the kids are in we set the garage, basement and outside storeroom. We've got really good CCTV as well which gives an amazing picture none of this grainy rubbish.

Granted we could still be burgled but I think they are more likely to look for an easier target along the street. It's about the deterrent for us. Oh and I lock my car when I fill up and when the kids were younger I made them lock it from the inside!

 

[Peregrinator]

"As far as I am concerned it is a failing of the police that you cannot leave a vehicle unattended with the keys in without the prospect of it being stolen."

It's rather a failing of society that things have changed since the golden days you mention, society has changed and not for the better. The police cannot be blamed for someone not taking reasonable care of themselves or their property. Unless you want a nanny state that is.

Yes it has changed a great deal, in 1960 there was one policeman to every 640 people, today there is one policeman to every 338 people, yet we don't see any policeman walking on our streets (that is my town, maybe different for your town), only time we see them, is on the motor ways waiting for speeders

 

[Peregrinator]

You must live in a dodgey part of the country.

No I grew up in London, when I moved out of London to a small town, and the kids were young, doors were always open, now were on our own we always have them locked.

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[Chris]

Keys in the ignition or not it is still theft.

Insurers shouldn’t have that get out clause in my opinion

 

[SpeedyDux]

Yes, it is still a crime but an easily preventable one and no I certainly wouldn't say the police shouldn't follow up crime where the victim is a vulnerable person, in fact the opposite, and I can tell you from personal experience they do follow up that that type of crime, but that is of of course, an entirely different matter to the question of resources and how they are used.

Comparing the case of this lady with a vulnerable person being the victim of a crime, perhaps of no great value, which impacted on their wellbeing or health. Although both would have been recorded and investigated, it's a matter of degree, In my day the impact of any crime on a vulnerable person may have taken precedence over others which might have been of higher value but where the victim could have easily foreseen or prevented it. The vulnerable person may not have the capacity for one reason or another to forsee or prevent their becoming a victim and may be much more adversely affected by a similar crime where the victim is not vulnerable which is why in many, not all, cases, they may deserve priority.

Whatever our thoughts on the actions of the lady in question which undeniably were the cause of her misfortune,
I don't believe I or anyone else suggested there was any excuse for this or any other crime.

The lady in question undoubtedly contributed to her misfortune and shares a bit of blame, but I totally empathise with her for this awful loss. I can understand the cold hard insurers' reason to reject the claim, that is contractually but perhaps not morally right in what is supposed to be our caring and compassionate society. Insurance is supposed to spread the loss; instead it is legally allowed to make excuses to let the loss lie where it falls in such hard cases. Slowly the old rules surrounding insurance are being liberalised - for example, the uberrima fidei principle has been eroded for consumers. Still a long way to go.

The thief or thieves (because there is always more than one) deserve 100% of the penalty that they escaped this time. I hope that Karma will catch up with them soon. Karma often dispenses true justice a lot better than our criminal justice system.

 

[Folkranger]

Yes, it is still a crime but an easily preventable one and no I certainly wouldn't say the police shouldn't follow up crime where the victim is a vulnerable person, in fact the opposite, and I can tell you from personal experience they do follow up that that type of crime, but that is of of course, an entirely different matter to the question of resources and how they are used.

Comparing the case of this lady with a vulnerable person being the victim of a crime, perhaps of no great value, which impacted on their wellbeing or health. Although both would have been recorded and investigated, it's a matter of degree, In my day the impact of any crime on a vulnerable person may have taken precedence over others which might have been of higher value but where the victim could have easily foreseen or prevented it. The vulnerable person may not have the capacity for one reason or another to forsee or prevent their becoming a victim and may be much more adversely affected by a similar crime where the victim is not vulnerable which is why in many, not all, cases, they may deserve priority.

Whatever our thoughts on the actions of the lady in question which undeniably were the cause of her misfortune,
I don't believe I or anyone else suggested there was any excuse for this or any other crime.

Not comparing the two crimes. just trying to throw a light on the inferences of many posts in this thread that the police should not follow up a crime because it is somehow the fault of the victim. Imagine saying that in a rape case because the girl wore attractive clothes and took a shortcut through the park. Crime is crime, no matter what the victim did. The need to prioritise resources is a separate matter.

 

[Jacasino]

Understandable from the insurance company point of view but what is going on with the police these days, West Mercia Police will not come out to reports of burglaries but boast about the 1000 visits they made to warn households about the use of illegitimate video streaming sticks, lack of resources ??

 

[Garry - June]

Isn't this a classic case of "Be careful and think what you are actually telling your Insurance company" , If the owner had simply said the keys were on a hook inside the doorway of the house and the thief must have come into the house and stolen them it would have been totally different...the fact she was too honest and said they were left in the ignition invalidates any claim in an instant. Dishonest I know but Insurance companies will try any means possible to get out of paying up, so no need to make it easy for them, sometimes "Honesty isn't always the best policy"

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[trevor 87]

Leavin keys in ignition can open a can of worms eg drinkin and drivin too

You only need to have the keys on you or in the vehicle fo you to be charged with being in charge of a vehicle like through drink or drugs ( should you be over the limits )

 

[Tude]

Police are not interested it’s a joke I bet if you put a nazi flag in your garden they would be round immediately

 

[Funmeister]

we keep a spare set in a combination lock key safe bolted under the towbar !

 

[Peregrinator]

Not comparing the two crimes. just trying to throw a light on the inferences of many posts in this thread that the police should not follow up a crime because it is somehow the fault of the victim. Imagine saying that in a rape case because the girl wore attractive clothes and took a shortcut through the park. Crime is crime, no matter what the victim did. The need to prioritise resources is a separate matter.

You know They did do & say that years ago, poor girls didn't even get help.

 

[The Wino]

You know They did do & say that years ago, poor girls didn't even get help.

It was a different world one we have done well to move of from. I think the same was true of racist behaviour and prejudice against gay people seen at the time as harmless and I suspect violence against them largely ignored.

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