BBC News - Fear and loathing over van dwellers

[PaddyM]

I agree with Northern Raider that people should be able to do whatever they want and wherever they want with no accountability . If they want to park outside my house and road / driveway they should be allowed to . If their mental health problems are greater than mine ( caused by their selfish actions ) then they are 100% in the right . Everybody should have the right to cause whatever pain and suffering and angst to whoever they choose .At the same time id like to apologise for trying hard at school , getting academic qualifications , never knowingly ever to break the laws of the land i love and adore , saving money at the sacrifice of instant pleasures to buy a home / homes .
I once asked my amazing , beautiful , kind and loving mother if there was any madness in our family to which she replied ,
“ No son we were all too busy working and raising kids “

 

[nicholsong]

I know the area quite well, and I think that one of the problems, and one not really addressed in the media coverage, and in comments on this thread, is that the caravans are parked in front of other people's houses.

I, like many members on here, do my wildcamping in such a way as to avoid parking outside other people's houses. Even when I parked my MH in my London terraced street I tried hard to park it in front of my own house when that space became available, or I parked it at the end of the road where there were garden flank walls of houses round the corner.

Whatever are the social circumstances of the occupants of these caravans, they could choose to do the same and thereby reduce the problem they cause. I know of many streets in that Clifton area where that would be possible.

 

[15edward]

I’ve recently been searching for a house to rent for my son and his family in Bristol for them to live in befure buying.
I’ve been flabbergasted by the number of properties to rent available only to students. Two big universities in the city. On one site out of 28 pages of properties available there were 4 for families - 4 houses not pages.

 

[AladinsaneUK]

Councils and planners could fix this. We already have in practice, the concept of zoned land. Industrial estates are separate from residential. So to are small enterprise units. If they created land which was zoned for caravans and separately, land zoned for motohomes, they could take the lead and use that leadership to draw people to such zoned land. Long-term usage needs to be separated from leisure/temporary dwellers. However if councils got off their seat this wouldn't be a problem because (relative to that article), caravans would move to the better-serviced place.

Similar vein; I recall a friend of mine and his GF on his Pan-European motorbike being refused accommodation because he was down at heel simply because he was on a motorbike. He was anything but that. His leathers cost more than the B&B owners family car. The bike was brand new. Always was. Changed every six months.

Perceptions are ridiculous. For some they represent fact. Fact is, they don't.

Myself - quite a senior nurse, a surgical consultant friend and an anesthetist registrar colleague sat outside a bar restaurant in Woodbridge for thirty minutes before being told that riff raff like us was not welcome

All of us were on expensive Italian machinery - all costing thousands….

 

[15edward]

Also Nicholsong, I used to live just down the road from where theses people are in their vans and homes. They don’t front peoples houses- they’re across a road and at a diagonal.
My understanding from another news piece sometime ago is that many of them (though by no means all) are in work
To low wage and expensive hard to find housing creates these sort of issues
Efforts by City council to find alternative sites have been thwarted by nimbys- at least the council is trying

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[BrochMike]

For many years, a number of legally taxed/MOT'd motorhomes/campers were legitimately 'parked' on Bristol Downs. They were subsequently breaking a new '5hr max stay' law but, as there were few issues, there was no enforcement.

However, this historic lack of action means everyone assumes it's now acceptable and the council are over-whelmed (or too embarrassed?) by the rapidly escalating situation to act (in accordance with the law).

They don't even intervene when day-trippers park on the grass (clearly prohibited) and set up their barbecues/fires (also illegal, as well as dangerous) as this would be called out as 'two-tier policing' no doubt...

Locals (and other law-abiding users) have been pretty tolerant but, with ever-increasing abuse (ie. lots of permanently pitched caravans), it is not surprising things are becoming more difficult to accept - and the Downs have become a much less attractive destination - than they used to be.

Solutions around designated 'zones' for 'van-dwellers' sound great but there is limited space in Bristol that could be provided.

The council's Traveller provision is laughable. They can't/won't even agree to a small CAMC campsite (having sold off the Baltic Wharf site for housing).

How on earth will they find suitable space for 600+?

 

[Barti Ddu]

I know the area quite well, and I think that one of the problems, and one not really addressed in the media coverage, and in comments on this thread, is that the caravans are parked in front of other people's houses.

I, like many members on here, do my wildcamping in such a way as to avoid parking outside other people's houses. Even when I parked my MH in my London terraced street I tried hard to park it in front of my own house when that space became available, or I parked it at the end of the road where there were garden flank walls of houses round the corner.

Whatever are the social circumstances of the occupants of these caravans, they could choose to do the same and thereby reduce the problem they cause. I know of many streets in that Clifton area where that would be possible.

I'm sorry but you're wrong. These vehicles are not parked up in Clifton village outside people's houses which would certainly cause conflict and upset. They are on the Downs on the edge of Clifton.

The photo is of us overnighting on Parry's Lane which is the main van and caravan dwelling road on Clifton Downs . The nearest property is hundreds of metres away. They have congregated up there precisely because it is open land, away from houses.

 

[BrochMike]

The photo is of us overnighting on Parry's Lane which is the main van and caravan dwelling road on Clifton Downs . The nearest property is hundreds of metres away. They have congregated up there precisely because it is open land, away from houses.

View attachment 1052161

When was this?

Things have changed a lot in a very short time. I'd be surprised if you could find a space today.

Also, not a problem, as there is no enforcement, but you do realise you were (illegally) parked in a space designated for buses?

 

[L' Hobo]

This does not help the motorhome hobby/ lifestyle , I can see why councils are getting more and more adverse to Aires etc.

BBC News - Fear and loathing over van dwellers on Bristol's leafy streets

Bristol van dwellers: Fear and loathing on Clifton's leafy streets

A suburban culture clash is playing out - and as tempers flare, there are no easy solutions.

www.bbc.com

They're just apprentice FLTers,

 

[Ejaydee]

Myself - quite a senior nurse, a surgical consultant friend and an anesthetist registrar colleague sat outside a bar restaurant in Woodbridge for thirty minutes before being told that riff raff like us was not welcome

All of us were on expensive Italian machinery - all costing thousands….

Must be something about Suffolk!

I had the same happen to me in Framlingham in 1967, fiftey eight years ago when my then girl friend and I went to visit and have a look around as we had never been before, despite living in Ipswich. We were told by a posse of several irate residents in no uncertain terms that we were not welcome as we were wearing (very expensive Lewis) leathers and had arrived on a (brand new) Matchless 750 G15CS and that our sort should stay where we belonged!

Bear in mind I was a rather forthright seaman in my my teens (18) at the time, in the calmest way possible, I put them straight on a few facts and did eventually get a very begrudging apology.

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[Barti Ddu]

When was this?

Things have changed a lot in a very short time. I'd be surprised if you could find a space today.

Also, not a problem, as there is no enforcement, but you do realise you were (illegally) parked in a space designated for buses? it was December 2022, but we've been back again until our Daughter graduated from Bristol Uni in summer 2023.

The photo was taken in December 2022 but we've been back since until our daughter graduated from Bristol Uni in summer 2023.

The bus and coach parking restrictions are (from memory) just during weekdays, not overnight or at weekends, so no issue with us parking there when we did.

 

[TDub49]

I perfectly understand people being down on their luck and or poor,yes we have those in Surrey as well. My disagreement is the almost deliberate act of turning a well kept suburb into a hovel thumbing their noses at the "well heeled" locals in an act of spite.
Mike.

Yes, I've heard of poor people in Surrey. They're the ones who only have one ski-ing holiday a year

 

[TDub49]

Having overnighted on Bristol Downs on numerous occasions I can categorically state that the pink-shirted guy being interviewed by the BBC is not typical of the community of van and caravan dwellers up there.

I've previously given my thoughts on here -

Post in thread 'Bristol: van-dweller capital of UK' https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/bristol-van-dweller-capital-of-uk.300586/post-6077410

As Carpmart says, it's a complex problem, but one that shouldn't be beyond the whit of the local authority to attempt to resolve. There needs to be some way of accommodating them.

I agree that it shouldn't be beyond the whit of any local authority to resolve the problem but it is certainly beyond the budgets of most to even look at the problem. Council housing helped get this country back on its feet after the war - no chance of that happening again any time soon (the council housing - war on the other hand . . . ) and more and more councils teetering on the edge of bankruptcy mean more and more people struggling for accommodation and support. We have become the USA by stealth.

 

[sonny]

It’s not being poor or rich that makes a person dirty or untidy its laziness or not giving a monkeys toss

 

[15edward]

Or lack of access to running water

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[Tonks]

I, like many members on here, do my wildcamping in such a way as to avoid parking outside other people's houses. Even when I parked my MH in my London terraced street I tried hard to park it in front of my own house when that space became available, or I parked it at the end of the road where there were garden flank walls of houses round the corner.

Whatever are the social circumstances of the occupants of these caravans, they could choose to do the same and thereby reduce the problem they cause. I know of many streets in that Clifton area where that would be possible.

A van-owning visitor to my home once did that. They parked their van along a nearby road (double yellows in front and behind my house, so they couldn't park outside). They parked opposite a house which itself was well set back from the road, in an elevated position with a garden in front of the house. My friend parked their small panel van campervan on the far side of the road, correctly orientated for the traffic. Not near the house's driveway entrance/exit, not near a junction, and not directly outside said house. They left the van there overnight, staying with me. The next morning, when my visitor returned to their van, they were met by a 'lady' rushing out of the house saying 'you can't park there!' (Wrong - no restrictions or road markings to limit parking, and the van fully taxed, insured, MOT'd, and not causing an obstruction in ANY way.) On asking what the problem was, said 'lady' proceeded to say the van made it difficult for her children to cross the road! (Also wrong, unless they'd never ever been taught how to cross a road with plenty of room to cross safely, with or without a van parked there.) She then proceeded to tell my visitor not to park there again!! I was tempted to ask a friend with a very large commercial van to park it there for 24 hours afterwards...

 

[sonny]

Or lack of access to running water

Just need water not running or wet wipes still does not excuse the mess outside

 

[BouncyBoatFolk]

Yes, I've heard of poor people in Surrey. They're the ones who only have one ski-ing holiday a year
Key areas of deprivation in Surrey include:

• Reigate and Banstead:
  The borough has several "Key Neighbourhoods" identified for focusing on health and well-being strategies, including Hooley, Merstham and Netherne, Horley Central and South, Redhill West and Wray Common, and Tattenham Corner and Preston. Specific LSOAs (Lower Super Output Areas) within this borough are also ranked highly in the IMD.
  

• Woking:
  The Canalside ward in Woking has a significant proportion of children living in poverty, indicating a high level of deprivation. Sheerwater, a neighborhood in Woking, has also been identified as a deprived area.
  

• Guildford:
  The Bellfields and Slyfield (previously Stoke) area, as well as the Park Barn and Royal Surrey area, are ranked among the most deprived in Guildford and Surrey overall, with high rates of income deprivation and child poverty. Westborough, another ward in Guildford, has also been identified as a key area of concern.
  

Other areas with high deprivation include:


Runnymede, Spelthorne, and Surrey Heath.
These areas are often characterized by factors such as low household income, high rates of unemployment, poor health outcomes, and limited access to essential services.
Not many St Moritz customers from those boroughs I'll wager.
Mike.

 

[Northernraider]

It’s not being poor or rich that makes a person dirty or untidy its laziness or not giving a monkeys toss

Says someone obviously not poor

 

[Northernraider]

Just need water not running or wet wipes still does not excuse the mess outside

The caravans with the mess outside are abandoned, again explained in the article as the people who were living in them were foreign and sent home .

Wet wipes are expensive if you don't have much cash

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[CazPaul]

People aren’t living there to be awkward they will have been forced into it by circumstances, I’ve met quite a few in my line of work once had good jobs, houses, incomes then find themselves with no money, divorced, no job, physical and mental health issues and they are on the streets or in run down damp flats.

It’s surprising how sometimes your life can take a turn for the worst.

 

[The Wino]

People aren’t living there to be awkward they will have been forced into it by circumstances, I’ve met quite a few in my line of work once had good jobs, houses, incomes then find themselves with no money, divorced, no job, physical and mental health issues and they are on the streets or in run down damp flats.

It’s surprising how sometimes your life can take a turn for the worst.

The thing is there aren't many votes in housing the homeless. Look at what the party in power and the opposition are arguing about when was the last time you heard the homeless mentioned to any extent.

 

[Northernraider]

People aren’t living there to be awkward they will have been forced into it by circumstances, I’ve met quite a few in my line of work once had good jobs, houses, incomes then find themselves with no money, divorced, no job, physical and mental health issues and they are on the streets or in run down damp flats.

It’s surprising how sometimes your life can take a turn for the worst.

Some folk need to watch that movie I Daniel Blake....might give a bit insight to how things can turn and how much of a comedy show the UK benefits and social care system is. Add tk that the 2/3 year waiting lists for folk with mental health issues etc. ... jees I had a mate who'd attempted suicide 3 f'eckin times and was still on a long waiting list for the therapy sessions he desperately needed last time I heard from him.

Anyone who thinks living in a cold damp shitheap of a caravan is a choice is delusional, they most likely flock together because I imagine one or two caravans somewhere on there own are more likely to be vandalised, set on fire or the occupants attacked etc.

These issues are mostly down to councils and social, health care priorities being all wrong.

Millions of empty council housing in the country deemed to either be uninhabitable or simply mismanaged, waiting lists are long .

But money wasted and squandered on other crap .

And any proposals for permanent sites to.move the folk to will be objected to by the same kind of folk that are complaining about them being where they are.


Same crap we motorhomers get really, don't want us in carparks or seafront etc but won't provide low cost alternatives. Campsites are not low cost alternatives and the few aires created are really nothing like what's required.

The issues could be resolved, ... but that involves money and the priorities ain't there

 

[Northernraider]

The thing is there aren't many votes in housing the homeless. Look at what the party in power and the opposition are arguing about when was the last time you heard the homeless mentioned to any extent.

Exactly.

 

[Langtoftlad]

The council can't afford to resolve the issue as they would have to house the people they make homeless

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[CazPaul]

Some folk need to watch that movie I Daniel Blake....might give a bit insight to how things can turn and how much of a comedy show the UK benefits and social care system is. Add tk that the 2/3 year waiting lists for folk with mental health issues etc. ... jees I had a mate who'd attempted suicide 3 f'eckin times and was still on a long waiting list for the therapy sessions he desperately needed last time I heard from him.

Anyone who thinks living in a cold damp shitheap of a caravan is a choice is delusional, they most likely flock together because I imagine one or two caravans somewhere on there own are more likely to be vandalised, set on fire or the occupants attacked etc.

These issues are mostly down to councils and social, health care priorities being all wrong.

Millions of empty council housing in the country deemed to either be uninhabitable or simply mismanaged, waiting lists are long .

But money wasted and squandered on other crap .

And any proposals for permanent sites to.move the folk to will be objected to by the same kind of folk that are complaining about them being where they are.


Same crap we motorhomers get really, don't want us in carparks or seafront etc but won't provide low cost alternatives. Campsites are not low cost alternatives and the few aires created are really nothing like what's required.

The issues could be resolved, ... but that involves money and the priorities ain't there

Yep I’ll go with all that then what makes it worse is you see multi millionaires paying a fortune recently for a jolly to outer space in a rocket.
The old saying rings true “ Money is the root of all evil”

 

[sonny]

With our social care system to much money paid out to people who want it not people who need it