Victron Orion xs B2B problem

[AdrianChen]

The Orion common negative is wired to a negative bubar that is wired to the leisure battery negative? Is there a negative connection to the chassis anywhere.
6

 

[Just smiffy]

The Orion common negative is wired to a negative bubar that is wired to the leisure battery negative? Is there a negative connection to the chassis anywhere.
6

Yes, I did originally have the negative wired to the chassis… it was the same and that’s why I put it to the bus bar…

 

[AdrianChen]

Being an amateur I would just try a connection from the busbar to chassis even with a temp jump lead......

 

[Raul]

Yes, I did originally have the negative wired to the chassis… it was the same and that’s why I put it to the bus bar…

And that bus bar has connection to the chassis, yes? Otherwise may not have a full circuit return path.
There was no long ago a case where this was the culprit for not charging full 50A was down to half because the return path was via EBL restrictive circuit wire.

 

[Just smiffy]

The Orion common negative is wired to a negative bubar that is wired to the leisure battery negative? Is there a negative connection to the chassis anywhere.
6

Being an amateur I would just try a connection from the busbar to chassis even with a temp jump lead......

You AdrianChen I owe you a good drink…

Although I mentioned that the units are stand a line I forgot that the negative from the bus bar goes to the cbe unit…


And that bus bar has connection to the chassis, yes? Otherwise may not have a full circuit return path.

There was no long ago a case where this was the culprit for not charging full 50A was down to half because the return path was via EBL restrictive circuit wire.

I put a jump lead from known chassis to the bus bar and it worked…

Now in the process of making up a lead…

Everyone now has permission to mock me mercilessly….

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[Raul]

AdrianChen was quicker than me this time, as he mentioned it I remembered about the other tread too.

 

[Just smiffy]

A happy ending….

Thank you one and all for your help and advice…

 

[Just smiffy]

Oh….. engine shutdown mode works just fine….

 

[Ditcha]

Oh….. engine shutdown mode works just fine….

Right Garry this lithium shit doesn't stop here you need a shunt preferably victron (others available ) then you need a RasPI or Cerbo then you need a multiplus then you need a .….…............… well what next

 

[Just smiffy]

Right Garry this lithium shit doesn't stop here you need a shunt preferably victron (others available ) then you need a RasPI or Cerbo then you need a multiplus then you need a .….…............… well what next

I’ve only the intention of putting the kettle on a few more times and maybe use the remoska a little more Dave….
But then I’ve got a slow cooker and maybe a microwave and was thinking of an induction hob, I’ve already got an air fryer indoors… Fiddlesticks it Dave…. I’m going to have to start a go-fund me page for more victron….

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[rod_vw]

I know your probably right Lenny but why does it have this function if it doesn’t work properly…

As you know I can’t find a d+ on my van and if I have to wire it directly from the alternator to the b2b and it still don’t work…. I’ll come up there and run over your best dancing shoes…

My XS has a simple 'ignition on' signal as a true D+ is not easy to access as it should come from the BCM (Body Control Module) on my MAN TGE. This set-up works perfectly.

 

[Ditcha]

I’ve only the intention of putting the kettle on a few more times and maybe use the remoska a little more Dave….
But then I’ve got a slow cooker and maybe a microwave and was thinking of an induction hob, I’ve already got an air fryer indoors… Fiddlesticks it Dave…. I’m going to have to start a go-fund me page for more victron….

You'll be putting the aircon back on soon

 

[fishplug]

Everyone now has permission to mock me mercilessly….

I would if I hadn't made the "oh, but is it earthed properly" mistake at least a dozen times myself....

Glad to hear you got it working - and good to know how it behaves without a proper earth. Might help me diagnose mine if I do eventually swap out my CTEK for something that integrates into the Victron suite I appear to be gathering...

 

[fishplug]

For the other people without a D+ - I came across this problem while helping a friend with a diesel heater install and found the solution in the form of a D+ emulator from Votronic.

It was a pretty clever little thing that not only looked at voltage but also engine vibration in order to feel content in telling you that the engine was running and not just that the key was in the ignition or that the vehicle was being towed/on a ferry/getting vibrations due to an earthquake etc. Unless both were present then no D+ signal.

Of course if you left the keys in the ignition during an earthquake then it might have been fooled....

 

[Just smiffy]

Roger RogerIvy explains it very well here that it’s not a problem for the b2b to come on if your vehicle battery is on the high side due to solar or other charging as it will just cycle off and on and won’t go below the settings so the b2b will not discharge your starter battery completely…

As said the engine shutdown setting works well as it did before for nearly a year before I put the lithium in yesterday..

A company like victron will not put a function on a product that’s not fit for purpose, putting a d+ on it is just an option open to you…

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[Just smiffy]

My solar charged it up to 100% today, 400w was pumping in 260w at 11am at 278a on the battery app another half hour and it was full and in standby….

 

[MarkHoughton]

If you have a smart alternator then the problem is probably your Alternator Settings. The 12.8V shut down voltage is too high for a smart alternator which is trying to keep the engine battery at about 12.3V. The shut down voltage is there to make sure the engine battery is not over discharged but it needs to be much lower for a smart alternator.

I know this because even with D+ activation my Victron OrionXS didn’t work all the time. It was fine if the van had been on EHU which raised the Volts above the 12.5V mine had been set to by the installer but at other times it simply did not work. I spent an hour checking voltages fuses and D+ signals before stopping to have a good think and go through all the settings. I dropped the input voltage lockout to 12.0V and the restart value to 12.3V and “hooray” it switched on and started charging at about 48A. I will have to try it on a few runs to be sure I have got this sorted but it all seems to working and it makes sense that the cut out was to blame because it overrides all the other activation procedures.

I have been wondering why my 50a only seems to push out about 20a. I will try your settings and see what happens. Cheers

 

[MarkHoughton]

Being an amateur I would just try a connection from the busbar to chassis even with a temp jump lead......

Hi Adrian, long time no speak. I am still not getting much over 20a from my 50A, it has not been a massive issue as the regular 2-3 hour drives between stops tends to top up. But I was niggles by its lack of full amp input.
I will try and do the same chassis negative check and see if it resolves for me also.
Cheers Mark

 

[AdrianChen]

Hi Adrian, long time no speak. I am still not getting much over 20a from my 50A, it has not been a massive issue as the regular 2-3 hour drives between stops tends to top up. But I was niggles by its lack of full amp input.
I will try and do the same chassis negative check and see if it resolves for me also.
Cheers Mark

Hi Mark - Wondered how you were getting on! A quick check is to make up a bit of cable or jump lead to use as a temp connection, can't remember now what the outcome of installation of the relay to disable the split charge in the DS 470 was, but if the negative proves not to be the issue, there are other things to try.

Is the 20a charge net of the fridge running on 12v? IE is it more with the fridge turned off?

 

[MarkHoughton]

Hi Mark - Wondered how you were getting on! A quick check is to make up a bit of cable or jump lead to use as a temp connection, can't remember now what the outcome of installation of the relay to disable the split charge in the DS 470 was, but if the negative proves not to be the issue, there are other things to try.

Is the 20a charge net of the fridge running on 12v? IE is it more with the fridge turned off?

Hi Adrian, apologies for slow reply, but the low-mid 20's is with the fridge off or on gas.

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[AdrianChen]

Hi Adrian, apologies for slow reply, but the low-mid 20's is with the fridge off or on gas.

OK - Can you post up the history screen of the Orion?

Will be earth or the relay wiring I guess....

 

[Lenny HB]

A company like victron will not put a function on a product that’s not fit for purpose, putting a d+ on it is just an option open to you…

It makes the product universal.
Voltage sensing works fine if you don't have solar or mains charging the starter battery but if you it is always best to use the D+ to control it.