Banning pub stops??

[Jim]

I'm relying on memory (because I haven't got time to look it up) but I think it was about 8 years or so ago that the requirement for 6 metre spacing was mandated for CLs and rallies. Obviously there was discussion on this forum at the time and I think there was a particular fire safety paper which contained the recommendations/regulations. Perhaps Jim may be able to help.

I don't think there are any regulations or requirement in law. I believe that the whole 6m thing originally came from the Caravan Club years ago and became what's known as 'Best Practise'.

Natural England tell us to observe this best practise or they will remove our exemption to rally. Making it essentially a law as far as we are concerned.

Furthermore, let's say a motorhome fire occurred on a rally field and a secondary vehicle parked closer than 6m to the fire was damaged by heat. The loss adjuster would be asking us why we ignored 'best practice'

 

[GJH]

I have just re-read this thread and in particular the quotation in the Act defining "caravan site"(highlighted above).

My analysis is that if a householder permits visiting friends or relatives to park their MH on their drive or yard for the purpose of human habitation that the piece of land comes within that definition of "caravan site".

It could be argued that the Act in its totality was never designed to require the owner of a private house to obtain a licence or exemption in such circumstances.

It could be further argued that by extension the landlord of a pub, in similar circumstances, should not be required to obtain a licence or exemption.

Discuss.

There is no need to argue that the Act in its totality was never designed to require the owner of a private house to obtain a licence or exemption because a specific exemption was built in at the start - Para 1 of the First Schedule "A site licence shall not be required for the use of land as a caravan site if the use is incidental to the enjoyment as such of a dwellinghouse within the curtilage of which the land is situated."

If the landlord of a pub were genuinely to allow friends or relatives to stay for such domestic reasons then I would expect that exemption to apply. Not otherwise, no matter how much anyone tried to worm their way around it - and especially if there were any fee, whether cash or meal purchase for example

 

[GJH]

I don't think there are any regulations or requirement in law. I believe that the whole 6m thing originally came from the Caravan Club years ago and became what's known as 'Best Practise'.

Natural England tell us to observe this best practise or they will remove our exemption to rally. Making it essentially a law as far as we are concerned.

Furthermore, let's say a motorhome fire occurred on a rally field and a secondary vehicle parked closer than 6m to the fire was damaged by heat. The loss adjuster would be asking us why we ignored 'best practice'

Thanks Jim.

A quick Google identified several local authorities which have included the spacing in their site licence conditions, based on the 2008 model standards for static sites (https://www.northlincs.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/modelstandards2008.pdf).
There is also a government document produced in 2014 by the Highways Agency for their construction sites (https://assets.publishing.service.g...B6_Temporary_Accommodation_September_2014.pdf) which appears to be based on the same model.

 

[nicholsong]

I don't think there are any regulations or requirement in law. I believe that the whole 6m thing originally came from the Caravan Club years ago and became what's known as 'Best Practise'.

Natural England tell us to observe this best practise or they will remove our exemption to rally. Making it essentially a law as far as we are concerned.

Furthermore, let's say a motorhome fire occurred on a rally field and a secondary vehicle parked closer than 6m to the fire was damaged by heat. The loss adjuster would be asking us why we ignored 'best practice'

Would a loss adjuster act similarly if an adjacent vehicle were damaged in a S/market CP? I doubt it.

 

[Jim]

Would a loss adjuster act similarly if an adjacent vehicle were damaged in a S/market CP? I doubt it.

Maybe if the car in question had a cooker on board and the owners were using it.

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[The Wino]

It could be but it is not always large organisations.
A few years ago a motorhoming friend moved back to Scotland and put a lot of money into making a CL next to his new home, charging a reasonable amount. All was well at first and then business dropped off. He found that the reason was that a pub had started allowing overnight camping. That obviously made it very difficult for him to recoup his investment.

But that would have equally happened if someone nearby had set up a cl with nicer views and lower prices. Setting up anyway buisness doesn't mean that you are entitled to a monopoly in the local area. Spending on creating a cl is as you say an investment. Investment carries risks as well as possible benefits

 

[cyberyacht]

Since most pubs where people might do an overnight stop are fairly likely to be in a relatively remote country road somewhere, I would imagine the probability of any form of enforcement must be pretty close to zero.

 

[GJH]

But that would have equally happened if someone nearby had set up a cl with nicer views and lower prices. Setting up anyway buisness doesn't mean that you are entitled to a monopoly in the local area. Spending on creating a cl is as you say an investment. Investment carries risks as well as possible benefits

True, but the cheaper CL would be fair competition, within the law, rather than someone breaking the law.

 

[Millie 'n us]

Crkey! Some of you seem to be overly into legality. Our driveway in Windermere is in Britstops and I’m sure if we looked hard enough there would be all kinds of rules, legislation, planning dept. stuff telling us we can’t do it! Therefore we don’t look and quite a lot of m.homers are thankful .

 

[chaser]

True, but the cheaper CL would be fair competition, within the law, rather than someone breaking the law.

I would say it's near enough 100% that the pub was there first so you could say the cl was taking the pubs business

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[Tony50]

Just fell across this video from By The Curb - not someone I have ever watched before. He frequently goes to Bridlington, stays in pub stops. Has now discovered several bubs having been told cant take vans any more!!

Whilst we dont use pub stops i know a lot do. goodness knows what the issue is, just hope it doesnt spread.

I have been trying to get safe over night parking for motorhomes in my town, at the moment they park on seafront some as close to 12 to 18 inches away from backs of wooden Beachhuts, and as far as I know there is nothing anyone can do about it , it's ludicrous.

 

[bigtwin]

some as close to 12 to 18 inches away from backs of wooden Beachhuts,

Out of interest, how far apart is each wooden beach hut from its neighbours either side?
Might any of them have cooking facilities contained within?

Ian

 

[The Wino]

I have been trying to get safe over night parking for motorhomes in my town, at the moment they park on seafront some as close to 12 to 18 inches away from backs of wooden Beachhuts, and as far as I know there is nothing anyone can do about it , it's ludicrous.

Whats the problem?

 

[GJH]

I would say it's near enough 100% that the pub was there first so you could say the cl was taking the pubs business

The pub did not allow camping until after the CL was opened, so that was not the case.

 

[chaser]

The pub did not allow camping until after the CL was opened, so that was not the case.

Wasn't talking about one but all.

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[CAB96]

Out of interest, how far apart is each wooden beach hut from its neighbours either side?
Might any of them have cooking facilities contained within?

Ian

But no overnighting in them.

 

[Don Campbell]

Ingwe makes a suggestion that the "large" clubs should be challenging this!! What makes you think they are at all likely to do this since every pub stop that closes means more potential profit for their sites

 

[Barriesimpson]

Why can't all types be available to the paying (or not) customer. A pub stop and a meal probably amounts to more than a site stop with home made food. Surely there are customers for all, competition is healthy in any business and it keeps you on your toes to offer what the customer is looking for. I really don't understand this 'over regulation' that Europe seems hell bent on.

 

[David and Sally]

Why can't all types be available to the paying (or not) customer. A pub stop and a meal probably amounts to more than a site stop with home made food. Surely there are customers for all, competition is healthy in any business and it keeps you on your toes to offer what the customer is looking for. I really don't understand this 'over regulation' that Europe seems hell bent on.

Faceless bureaucrats justifying their non-jobs. Big Brother state interference in almost everything we do.

 

[Barriesimpson]

Faceless bureaucrats justifying their non-jobs. Big Brother state interference in almost everything we do.

It sure seems that way.

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[Ingwe]

Ingwe makes a suggestion that the "large" clubs should be challenging this!! What makes you think they are at all likely to do this since every pub stop that closes means more potential profit for their sites

Because the clubs should be acting in the interests of their members. Not everyone who uses pub stops only uses this type of stop. We use a variety of stopping places; CLs, regular campsites, free spots from Park for Night etc. They are not mutually exclusive. For the argument that every pub stop closing is an opportunity suggests that there is a commercial park up close to the pub stop and this simply isn’t the case.

I’ve seen aires in France virtually opposite paying sites and notwithstanding this, the paying sites are full and there are spaces at the aire. Why? Because they are essentially different products. One offers a place to overnight, possibly with some services such as fresh water, often with none; the other offers all the services.

 

[MichaelT]

Ingwe makes a suggestion that the "large" clubs should be challenging this!! What makes you think they are at all likely to do this since every pub stop that closes means more potential profit for their sites

But having a pub on a sites doorstep is a good selling point so I don't see the correlation.

 

[Tony50]

Whats the problem?

If you were sitting in your property and somebody parked 12 to 18 inches from your property am I to believe you would be happy , I wouldn't, these people give other Free Loaders a bad name , I don't mind paying a reasonable amount to park, or use a pub and buy something .

 

[Tony50]

Out of interest, how far apart is each wooden beach hut from its neighbours either side?
Might any of them have cooking facilities contained within?

Ian

They are too close , don't know about cooking, never owned a Beach hut,and don't want, seeing Motorhomes park that close to Beach hut owners ,who pay about £800 ground rent per year only stirs up bad feelings, Where I live Beach hut owners have a strong lobby with the Council, I let you know when the ByeLaw comes out banning Motorhomes from Seafront that will have them .

 

[nicholsong]

If you were sitting in your property and somebody parked 12 to 18 inches from your property am I to believe you would be happy , I wouldn't, these people give other Free Loaders a bad name , I don't mind paying a reasonable amount to park, or use a pub and buy something .

But from beach huts one cannot see behind.

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[bigtwin]

But no overnighting in them.

Does that change the fire risk?

Ian

 

[GJH]

Wasn't talking about one but all.

My post which you responded to concerned a single CL and a single pub

 

[GJH]

Why can't all types be available to the paying (or not) customer. A pub stop and a meal probably amounts to more than a site stop with home made food. Surely there are customers for all, competition is healthy in any business and it keeps you on your toes to offer what the customer is looking for. I really don't understand this 'over regulation' that Europe seems hell bent on.

Faceless bureaucrats justifying their non-jobs. Big Brother state interference in almost everything we do.

The reasons for the regulations all go back to the reasons for the legislation being passed in the first place, unsuitable locations and public health (factors which still apply which is the reason why parliament hasn't changed the legislation drastically on the several occasions when it has been reviewed). Bureaucrats, faceless or not, only do as the legislation requires.
See post https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/banning-pub-stops.319422/page-3#post-6580112

There is no legislative barrier to encouraging competition and providing what customers are looking for. All the pub (or other business) has to do is to apply for a site licence or obtain an exemption certificate from one of the several clubs able to issue one.

 

[meanders]

Out of interest, how far apart is each wooden beach hut from its neighbours either side?
Might any of them have cooking facilities contained within?

Ian

Nowhere near enough. Some years back https://www.eadt.co.uk/news/21727383.felixstowe-firefighters-tackle-beach-hut-blaze/. Not reported but several others were badly scorched! Of course beach huts are licensed by the council who also take the rent!

 

[Barriesimpson]

There is no legislative barrier to encouraging competition and providing what customers are looking for. All the pub (or other business) has to do is to apply for a site licence or obtain an exemption certificate from one of the several clubs able to issue one.

So why don't they? Or does it cost money?

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