Potential legal prevention of UK "aires" and "pub stopovers"?

[GJH]

On Monday there was a debate in the Commons on Broken Link Removed.
Amongst the points raised was that "sites often have no proper sewerage, water or heating" and the Minister referred to the site licence conditions which govern "the provision of roads, utilities, sewerage and fire equipment, and spacing distances between homes."

Anyone who wishes to promote UK "aires" might do well to keep an eye on the progress of legislation which comes out of the consultation which took place earlier this year.

If it makes sites without proper water and waste facilities illegal then it would mean that LA car parks where camping is allowed (and camping in pub car parks) would automatically become illegal unless they had those facilities. It would also mean that any new "aires" could not be created without such provision (the attendant expense would obviously mitigate against them).

Depending on the wording, any extra powers for councils/police to close down unauthorised camp sites could extend to prevention of camping in vehicles anywhere, without having to bother with making provisions in parking orders.

So, those interested (especially anyone in the South West Bedfordshire constituency) might like to have a word with their MPs to ensure that the legislation is carefully worded.

 

[chaser]

On Monday there was a debate in the Commons on Broken Link Removed.
Amongst the points raised was that "sites often have no proper sewerage, water or heating" and the Minister referred to the site licence conditions which govern "the provision of roads, utilities, sewerage and fire equipment, and spacing distances between homes."

Anyone who wishes to promote UK "aires" might do well to keep an eye on the progress of legislation which comes out of the consultation which took place earlier this year.

If it makes sites without proper water and waste facilities illegal then it would mean that LA car parks where camping is allowed (and camping in pub car parks) would automatically become illegal unless they had those facilities. It would also mean that any new "aires" could not be created without such provision (the attendant expense would obviously mitigate against them).

Depending on the wording, any extra powers for councils/police to close down unauthorised camp sites could extend to prevention of camping in vehicles anywhere, without having to bother with making provisions in parking orders.

So, those interested (especially anyone in the South West Bedfordshire constituency) might like to have a word with their MPs to ensure that the legislation is carefully worded.

Big deal.
How many times have you posted on here saying it's already illegal.

 

[GJH]

Big deal.
How many times have you posted on here saying it's already illegal.

Probably as many times as you haven't read the posts properly

 

[spitfire]

Why has this site become so rude . If you post something which touches a nerve it is either ignored as ears are closed or rude comments are made .

 

[Just smiffy]

There’s a clue in your wording .. “sites” pub stopovers and such like are “Parking” I think that would make a difference and then of course would be the control of it...

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[iandsm]

Doomed, doomed we’re all doomed I tell ye.

 

[Boringfrog]

Taken from this site: http://www.motorhomeparking.co.uk/offsite.htm

 

[funflair]

Big deal.
How many times have you posted on here saying it's already illegal.

It's not illegal when its legal but if there were a change in the law as highlighted by Graham to make what is now legal illegal then yes it would indeed be illegal.

Martin

 

[GJH]

There’s a clue in your wording .. “sites” pub stopovers and such like are “Parking” I think that would make a difference and then of course would be the control of it...

Sorry but that is not the case. You must have missed the several previous posts which explain the position. However, if you follow the link to my article in Boringfrog's post above it should clarify the matter for you.

 

[StephandJohn]

Why has this site become so rude . If you post something which touches a nerve it is either ignored as ears are closed or rude comments are made .

Instead of just 'liking' this I thought I'd post that I agree. I don't understand why people want to be so rude to fellow motorhomers. Seems to be happening more frequently lately and its not good for newcomers who might be frightened to post something - or even more 'seasoned' ones like me.

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[munkey_bwy]

Its not illegal unit they catch you!!!! till then its just boring guidance.

 

[big map]

Will this give local authorities the power to move the gypsy and traveller communities on sooner without having to use up resources in getting a court order?

 

[munkey_bwy]

Yes, where as we move on the next morning, win win for the LA as they get visitor £'s and we happily move on. if used sensibly it can be a win win for the LA's

 

[Deleted member 29692]

Taken from this site: http://www.motorhomeparking.co.uk/offsite.htm
View attachment 254877

That’s Graham’s website.

I think he probably knows what it says

 

[Deleted member 29692]

Will this give local authorities the power to move the gypsy and traveller communities on sooner without having to use up resources in getting a court order?

Not a chance. They’ll scream racism and the authorities will be terrified to act new powers or not.

As far as they’re concerned nothing will change.

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[sueandjohn]

Why has this site become so rude . If you post something which touches a nerve it is either ignored as ears are closed or rude comments are made .

Can’t agree more

 

[Deleted member 29692]

On Monday there was a debate in the Commons on Broken Link Removed.
Amongst the points raised was that "sites often have no proper sewerage, water or heating" and the Minister referred to the site licence conditions which govern "the provision of roads, utilities, sewerage and fire equipment, and spacing distances between homes."

Anyone who wishes to promote UK "aires" might do well to keep an eye on the progress of legislation which comes out of the consultation which took place earlier this year.

If it makes sites without proper water and waste facilities illegal then it would mean that LA car parks where camping is allowed (and camping in pub car parks) would automatically become illegal unless they had those facilities. It would also mean that any new "aires" could not be created without such provision (the attendant expense would obviously mitigate against them).

Depending on the wording, any extra powers for councils/police to close down unauthorised camp sites could extend to prevention of camping in vehicles anywhere, without having to bother with making provisions in parking orders.

So, those interested (especially anyone in the South West Bedfordshire constituency) might like to have a word with their MPs to ensure that the legislation is carefully worded.

Worded like that I think it would probably make THSs illegal as well wouldn’t it?

Possibly a big chunk of the CL/CS/5 unit network as well.

It would also be the end of basic commercial sites like Lyndon Top.

Unfortunately this could prove to be the clarification I was talking about in the other thread.

If so it will be the end of motorhoming in the U.K. for us and quite possibly the end of motorhoming for us full stop - we’d have to take a view on how often we’ll be able to get abroad and decide whether it’s worth it. If being forced to use campsites is the future I’m not interested.

 

[big map]

Worded like that I think it would probably make THSs illegal as well wouldn’t it?

Possibly a big chunk of the CL/CS/5 unit network as well.

It would also be the end of basic commercial sites like Lyndon Top.

Unfortunately this could prove to be the clarification I was talking about in the other thread.

If so it will be the end of motorhoming in the U.K. for us and quite possibly the end of motorhoming for us full stop - we’d have to take a view on how often we’ll be able to get abroad and decide whether it’s worth it. If being forced to use campsites is the future I’m not interested.

How would it affect Rallys (in fields)?

 

[Boringfrog]

That’s Graham’s website.

I think he probably knows what it says

Yes I suppose he will, but others might not have seen it.

 

[iandsm]

It's not illegal when its legal but if there were a change in the law as highlighted by Graham to make what is now legal illegal then yes it would indeed be illegal.

Martin

And taking all the know facts into consideration having not addressed the unknown facts, on the one the one hand and perhaps on the other after giving due consideration to those pertinent matters as well as the non pertinent matters. At this juncture it may be to soon to say, or indeed a positive or negative outcome cannot be advanced bearing in mind the above issues.

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[canopus]

And taking all the know facts into consideration having not addressed the unknown facts, on the one the one hand and perhaps on the other after giving due consideration to those pertinent matters as well as the non pertinent matters. At this juncture it may be to soon to say, or indeed a positive or negative outcome cannot be advanced bearing in mind the above issues.

You should be in Westminster.

 

[GJH]

Worded like that I think it would probably make THSs illegal as well wouldn’t it?

Possibly a big chunk of the CL/CS/5 unit network as well.

It would also be the end of basic commercial sites like Lyndon Top.

Unfortunately this could prove to be the clarification I was talking about in the other thread.

If so it will be the end of motorhoming in the U.K. for us and quite possibly the end of motorhoming for us full stop - we’d have to take a view on how often we’ll be able to get abroad and decide whether it’s worth it. If being forced to use campsites is the future I’m not interested.

How would it affect Rallys (in fields)?

The danger is that the wording could encompass anywhere used for camping that doesn't have water and waste supplies. Thus several LA car parks would be (perhaps unwittingly) included and proposals to use other ones would possibly be thrown out because of the expense of provision.
I don't think it would affect rallies/THSs or CLs/CSs as they have adequate water and waste facilities (at least all the ones I have attended do).

 

[GJH]

Will this give local authorities the power to move the gypsy and traveller communities on sooner without having to use up resources in getting a court order?

That is the idea behind the legislation which is proposed to result from the consultation which took place earlier this year.

 

[GJH]

And taking all the know facts into consideration having not addressed the unknown facts, on the one the one hand and perhaps on the other after giving due consideration to those pertinent matters as well as the non pertinent matters. At this juncture it may be to soon to say, or indeed a positive or negative outcome cannot be advanced bearing in mind the above issues.

Like it

 

[GJH]

That’s Graham’s website.
I think he probably knows what it says

Yes I suppose he will, but others might not have seen it.

I assumed it was aimed at others

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[tomm]

The danger is that the wording could encompass anywhere used for camping that doesn't have water and waste supplies. Thus several LA car parks would be (perhaps unwittingly) included and proposals to use other ones would possibly be thrown out because of the expense of provision.
I don't think it would affect rallies/THSs or CLs/CSs as they have adequate water and waste facilities (at least all the ones I have attended do).

Further to what you say , I see it as being : If they simply decided to adopt the "Irish Option" , ie changing the law to make acts of deliberate trespass a criminal offence , then that would not affect THSs CLs etc in the slightest , as those events are not illegal incursions on to any private or publicly owned land.

 

[Barclaybasher]

If it is not worded properly it will affect many motorhomers, not me I don't normally 'camp' in the UK.

It will affect the sales of MHs, not just dealers - every MH will fall in value as demand drops.

Every business conected to MHs will suffer

As it will be national policy at least there might be some clarity as to what should be allowed.

Looking forward to Police Interceptors T - Packing their first MH

The policemen will be called Damo or Bigsy...or something like that

 

[Just smiffy]

Sorry but that is not the case. You must have missed the several previous posts which explain the position. However, if you follow the link to my article in Boringfrog's post above it should clarify the matter for you.

So, I go to the pub in my car, have a meal and a drink, come out and I’m really tired and I sleep in the car for the night....

Go to the pub in my Motorhome (because I have no car) have a meal and a drink come out and I’m knackered and Sleep in my Motorhome....

One of these scenarios I’ll be breaking the law when in fact they are the same...

I’m really not having a go but something is not quite right here.... I’m a plain English kind of guy...

 

[GJH]

Further to what you say , I see it as being : If they simply decided to adopt the "Irish Option" , ie changing the law to make acts of deliberate trespass a criminal offence , then that would not affect THSs CLs etc in the slightest , as those events are not illegal incursions on to any private or publicly owned land.

I agree. The potential danger is that they take it further as mentioned. That is why I mentioned it - as a "heads up" to anyone interested.

 

[GJH]

So, I go to the pub in my car, have a meal and a drink, come out and I’m really tired and I sleep in the car for the night....

Go to the pub in my Motorhome (because I have no car) have a meal and a drink come out and I’m knackered and Sleep in my Motorhome....

One of these scenarios I’ll be breaking the law when in fact they are the same...

I’m really not having a go but something is not quite right here.... I’m a plain English kind of guy...

I see your point but, as the law is framed at the moment, they are not the same because habitation of a caravan (including a motorhome) is controlled differently - whether we like it or not.
It would actually be the landlord in trouble for allowing his land to be used as a caravan site, not you - unless of course he didn't normally allow it and could take advantage of the exemption in Para 2 of the First Schedule

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