Bailey motorhomes. Buying British (1 Viewer)

[donnieban]

I have been quite outspoken about class leading build quality associated with German motorhomes. But, now find myself considering a Brit built Bailey with Alu- tech body shell. I have read that problems other than water ingress have caused concerns. What do the Bailey owners think?

 

[955matt]

meow

 

[funflair]

Must be a reason why timber frame houses, almost all furniture and most boats still use wood in their construction to some extent or another.

The video did Bailey no favours, I have to concede, the insertion of non mitred joints, the reliance on adhesives, the (seemingly) poor insulation material (come back Kingspan, all is forgiven), the reliance on window frames and fitments to give some structural rigidity all suggest a structure more suited to lightweight towing than a vehicle body.

I couldn't possibly draw any unfavourable comparisons between the M/H of one country or another. When it comes to boats, the British ones are world class, when it comes to jet engines and aircraft technology, the same applies. Certainly when we were deciding between German and British, the cost differences were huge on a like for like basis, with little (visible) to show. In the end we decided French on the merits of layout and suitability for ourselves, not nationality.

I suspect that this preoccupation with buying German is more an issue of assumed Teutonic superiority than anything more pragmatic, the base units are identical, and I doubt there is all that much difference in build quality to justify the cost difference. As I said before, in normal use, it is mechanical wear on the base unit that causes M/Hs to end up in the breaker's yard, not the quality of plastic/GRP used in the construction of the hab unit

Wood is cheap and easy to work.

Martin

 

[hilldweller]

#2 - The widest point remains the mirrors and that dimension hasn't changed so you're wrong, it isn't any wider..

Touché.

 

[Clarky]

Never owned a Bailey so don't feel the need to defend them but perhaps it's worth noting that the video was showing caravan construction not motorhomes.
The video was made by my old mate Chris Gosling when he ran the Caravan Channel and he stopped doing that quite a while ago.
It is now a pretty old video and practices and methods may well have changed.

Richard.

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[hilldweller]

Wood is cheap and easy to work.
Martin

And structurally amazing. You just have to be kind to it.

Part of this place dates back before 1890 and the wood is as good as it was when first installed.

 

[funflair]

And structurally amazing. You just have to be kind to it.

Part of this place dates back before 1890 and the wood is as good as it was when first installed.

Of course it's a composite. It's just one that likes to stay dry.

Martin

 

[pyro]

Wood is cheap and easy to work.

Martin

With an excellent strength/weight ratio, resilience to vibration (no work hardening issues), resistant to corrosion and harmonic resonance, and tried and tested over thousands of years

Never owned a Bailey so don't feel the need to defend them but perhaps it's worth noting that the video was showing caravan construction not motorhomes.

Thanks for reminding me. You are perfectly correct, this was a caravan being built

 

[Dave K]

Of course it's a composite. It's just one that likes to stay dry.

Martin

Timber is also nowhere near the quality that it was years ago, mainly because of the necessity to keep up with demand, just take a trip to the local builders merchants or DIY outlet, the timber they would use as a carcass material for a caravan/ motorhome now wouldn't compare to the timber of years gone by.

 

[pyro]

Agreed, but then pressure treated, kiln dried timber is used to construct roofs, boat stretchers to reinforce GRP, decks, entire houses, and so forth

If you can bear with the subtitles, you might find this interesting:

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[Minxy]

And I wonder why I've never bothered signing up to this nest of pedants before..
#1 - I should have said that the body shell isn't any wider (Oh hang on, I did..)
#2 - The widest point remains the mirrors and that dimension hasn't changed so you're wrong, it isn't any wider.
#3 - the vast majority of Baileys get fitted with an awning by the dealer as part of the purchase deal so the comparison is valid for those anyway.

Kevin, take no notice Hilda just hadn't had his afternoon nap so was a bit cranky after lunch!

I appreciate what you are saying but to have the body itself wider does actually make it more 'challenging' to drive at times than a coachbuilt with the same width of mirrors but a narrower body. For example in a car park, if there's somewhere to hang the rear end of a coachbuilt over so length isn't an issue, it's the wider body that would then be more likely to prevent you using a parking spot, or you may get damage if the person in the car next to you opens his/her door onto the side of it. On the road you may not notice the difference in body width on coachbuilts if they both have the long arm mirrors but other than that you will.

 

[Dave K]

Agreed, but then pressure treated, kiln dried timber is used to construct roofs, boat stretchers to reinforce GRP, decks, entire houses, and so forth

If you can bear with the subtitles, you might find this interesting:

Hope you don't think I was knocking the use of timber, or your van, after all I make a living from the stuff. As you rightly say provided it is seasoned correctly it's has excellent qualities, but if it isn't and it wants to change shape it will so decent timber and good drying processes are a must, having seen the construction of the panels on the original videos would you trust a mass producing company to be that particular, i would hope they would be but...

 

[olley]

Timber is also nowhere near the quality that it was years ago, mainly because of the necessity to keep up with demand, just take a trip to the local builders merchants or DIY outlet, the timber they would use as a carcass material for a caravan/ motorhome now wouldn't compare to the timber of years gone by.

You can get good quality timber, but it costs more and for basic carcassing its not needed. Just go into a timber merchant (Not Wicks or B&Q) and ask for joinery grade timber.

 

[pyro]

Hope you don't think I was knocking the use of timber, or your van, after all I make a living from the stuff. As you rightly say provided it is seasoned correctly it's has excellent qualities, but if it isn't and it wants to change shape it will so decent timber and good drying processes are a must, having seen the construction of the panels on the original videos would you trust a mass producing company to be that particular, i would hope they would be but...

Not at all taken the wrong way, no worries

 

[peterc10]

It is true that there are timber houses in this country that have survived for 100s of years. But they are generally made of oak, or other slow growing dense hardwood species. They are very much more resistant to water and rot than the modern fast growing softwoods of any grade that are use in modern houses and some motorhomes and caravans.

Pressure treatment helps prolong life, but the weakness is always in the cut joints which will never have the same resistance, even if it is coated with preservative (which rarely happens in practice). I have pressure treated boards on a small deck in the garden and they have not lasted 10 years on their cut ends.

And modern timber houses have 2 things going for them that motorhomes don't. First they are not subject to the dynamic loads that cause continual movement, which inevitably leads to cracks developing in sealants. And second they have a considerable amount of design to ensure that water from the outside (rain and spray) and water from the inside (condensation) does not get in contact with the timber, whilst still ensuring that vapour can move between the two.

A few years ago my son bought a tiny 1970s Eriba Puck caravan. We did a lot of work on it, with rotten plywood floors etc, but when we took the inner wall and ceiling linings off the coated steel structural frame was still structurally sound, despite evidence of a lot of leaks. I do not think that a wooden framed caravan from that era would have survived at all.

IMHO structural timber on or in the outer skin of any vehicle is asking for trouble. It relies entirely on the correct design and application of sealants, and if they fail, which they will always eventually do, the timber is in trouble. Couple that with the use (at least in the past) of water based adhesives and you have a fail unsafe system.

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[peterc10]

Agreed, but then pressure treated, kiln dried timber is used to construct roofs, boat stretchers to reinforce GRP, decks, entire houses, and so forth

If you can bear with the subtitles, you might find this interesting:

How about this version from the 1978!!

 

[Dave K]

Not at all taken the wrong way, no worries

Thanks, that's an impressive build being able to take the weight of a car on the roof structure though, I've had 2 British vans mainly because I can't find a layout in an imported van that suits us at the mo, I think it's different if you are able to lounge outside (noticed you're in Portugal) but our weather means that we can end up in the van for periods of time and we like to lounge, coupled with the fact we cook a lot in the van and the imported vans don't always have decent facilities for that, each to their own though, I wouldn't try to choose a van for somebody else.

 

[jongood]

The point of posting the contentious video was to demonstrate to prospective purchasers that 'Alu tech' may not mean what they think it means.

How did we get onto wood?

And I know a MH is a 'home from home' but I think the comparison between the performance of a house and a MH is a bit of a stretch.

 

[peterc10]

The point of posting the contentious video was to demonstrate to prospective purchasers that 'Alu tech' may not mean what they think it means.

How did we get onto wood?

And I know a MH is a 'home from home' but I think the comparison between the performance of a house and a MH is a bit of a stretch.

Not sure if that was "aimed" at me or not, but my posts were merely responding to points made by others. But all threads can meander. That's part of the fun.

 

[pyro]

It I have pressure treated boards on a small deck in the garden and they have not lasted 10 years on their cut ends.

And my neighbour has a transit based motorhome that is about the same age as your decking going down to the scrap yard because the base unit is falling apart

And I have a very costly boat that uses wood stringers to reinforce the GRP

How did we get onto wood?

The thread refers to construction techniques, and there was some criticism of Bailey for the insertion of wood into the structure of a caravan.

Kind of obvious when you read it

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[Gorse Hill]

And I wonder why I've never bothered signing up to this nest of pedants before..
#1 - I should have said that the body shell isn't any wider (Oh hang on, I did..)
#2 - The widest point remains the mirrors and that dimension hasn't changed so you're wrong, it isn't any wider.
#3 - the vast majority of Baileys get fitted with an awning by the dealer as part of the purchase deal so the comparison is valid for those anyway.

Does that mean your leaving us

 

[jongood]

And my neighbour has a transit based motorhome that is about the same age as your decking going down to the scrap yard because the base unit is falling apart

And I have a very costly boat that uses wood stringers to reinforce the GRP

The thread refers to construction techniques, and there was some criticism of Bailey for the insertion of wood into the structure of a caravan.

Kind of obvious when you read it

Actually they said they were putting in plastic in NOT wood.

 

[jongood]

Not sure if that was "aimed" at me or not, but my posts were merely responding to points made by others. But all threads can meander. That's part of the fun.

Sorry @peterc10 I'm not having a go at anyone - just wondered how we got to houses (rhetorical question)

Jon

 

[pyro]

Actually they said they were putting in plastic in NOT wood.

They did, but wood had been mentioned within the thread, hence my response

People are really spitting their dummies out on this topic. Flipping crazy, the Bailey example was an old video about caravan wall manufacture, and people start posting up derogatory comments when comparing that to a M/H floor manufactured by others!!!

Whichever nationality of hab unit you stick on the back, the vast majority of base units originate from Italy, and they will fall apart long before the plastic/aluminium/wood in the hab unit deteriorates beyond salvation

This place is becoming a battlefield

 

[olley]

I have got to repair some outside tables for the pub, going to use plastic wood, here's one supplier but their are others. http://www.kedel.co.uk/recycled-plastic-lumber-timber-wood.html?utm_term=+plastic +timberl&keyword=+plastic +timber&matchtype=b&network=g&device=c&gclid=CjwKEAiApLDBBRC8oICb9NvKsg0SJAD9yOHsLXJ3DL2OXoxlQHNb0y8FvaK3joNMYlOwneEkvvFH5BoCl0Xw_wcB
I would think this is a better bet for your decking, although just a little dearer.

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[Dave K]

They did, but wood had been mentioned within the thread, hence my response

People are really spitting their dummies out on this topic. Flipping crazy, the Bailey example was an old video about caravan wall manufacture, and people start posting up derogatory comments when comparing that to a M/H floor manufactured by others!!!

Whichever nationality of hab unit you stick on the back, the vast majority of base units originate from Italy, and they will fall apart long before the plastic/aluminium/wood in the hab unit deteriorates beyond salvation

This place is becoming a battlefield

Good point, and put into perspective

 

[Purple2]

This thread started as a 'Bailey' question and here's my input as a Bailey 740 owner which I bought less than a year ago brand new. Went in for its first hab check yesterday.
When I bought it, it went straight into a storage shed which even in the middle of winter I could walk round in shirt sleeves. It has done only a total of 2500 miles and didn't see proper daylight until late April. So VERY disturbed when the hab check revealed FOUR damp areas. Under both lounge seats, the hab locker under the bed and in the cassette area. Also it was discovered that the 'cowling' which joins the hab area to the cab moves and sounds like a regular Bailey problem. The extent of the damp is number 2 on a list of 4, number 1 being no issues, 4 being certain rot. The dealer is also going to replace the Alde control panel which doesn't work properly and we are currently at Cornish Farm and the water pump has packed in. Deep joy.

 

[ABZSteve]

Of all the threads that could attract someone to sign up for the sole purpose of trolling I didn't think it would be this one.

Don't think he signed up to troll. I thought he was polite in his post and was trying to be informative. However, a stinging response can evoke certain emotions. Maybe if he said HELLO my name is Kevin, bla bla bla then gave information he might have got a warmer welcome. I do however take exception to the "nest of pendants" comment; would have liked something more manly than a nest Oh Please!, a cave of pendants, a man cave, much better We will see if he returns.

 

[peterc10]

Whichever nationality of hab unit you stick on the back, the vast majority of base units originate from Italy, and they will fall apart long before the plastic/aluminium/wood in the hab unit deteriorates beyond salvation

I am not so sure that is correct but would welcome any evidence you have of it.

 

[Larrynwin]

Timber used in house construction gives far more protection with tiles and waterproof breathable felt to keep water out.
In a motorhome or caravan very little protection especially if a breakdown of adhesive at joints or roof accessories and it's too late when discovered as rot soon spreads .
Little comparison between the two.
My last RV had aluminium box section framing so the main structure couldn't rot.

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[funflair]

This thread started as a 'Bailey' question and here's my input as a Bailey 740 owner which I bought less than a year ago brand new. Went in for its first hab check yesterday.
When I bought it, it went straight into a storage shed which even in the middle of winter I could walk round in shirt sleeves. It has done only a total of 2500 miles and didn't see proper daylight until late April. So VERY disturbed when the hab check revealed FOUR damp areas. Under both lounge seats, the hab locker under the bed and in the cassette area. Also it was discovered that the 'cowling' which joins the hab area to the cab moves and sounds like a regular Bailey problem. The extent of the damp is number 2 on a list of 4, number 1 being no issues, 4 being certain rot. The dealer is also going to replace the Alde control panel which doesn't work properly and we are currently at Cornish Farm and the water pump has packed in. Deep joy.

From my readings on the Bailey construction there is no wood and the walls inside and out are GRP so where and how do they measure damp, in a traditional build the inside walls are some material that will absorb moisture so damp can be present and measured, our walls are aluminium so if you stick a damp meter in them they will show 100% as it measures conductivity, indeed I know on person who couldn't sell his N+B van because the guy the prospective purchaser employed to check it over told him it was damp "all over" and the seller didn't know to argue, he is happy years later though as the van is still going strong and dry a a bone.

Martin