anyone have air con? (1 Viewer)

[haganap]

I'm running out of accessories to install.

Therefore I am toying with the idea of installing under bench air con unit. Probably the freshwell 3000.

Does anyone have this?

also, how long would it run off lithium? or is it like all the other air con units I've had, only worth having on EHU?

tia.

 

[Bessy765]

Although different to what you propose, we have a Freshjet 2200 roof mounted air con. We have 700 watts of solar 2 x 100 amp Transpoter Lithium batteries an a Victron 12/2000/80 inverter charger. During the summer and its hot we can run this for several hours at a time without needing EHU the more sun (hotter) the more power to the batteries. The trick is not to try and turn the van into a fridge. The only comment I would make is the under bench system is usually fitted during construction as for the most efficiency you have to route the trunking towards the top of the van.

 

[Tombola]

All air con units are battery hungry and will hit the lithium big time as its 990 watts till it gets down to temp.
As everything it depends how long it's switched on for.
At full pelt (if your inverter and cables and battery are up to it) it will suck 90 - 100ah dry in an hour or so if no or very little sun

Of course it will kick in and out depending on temps, so that time will be extended especially if it runs (or cab air con does) on the journey so temp is lower to start with.

 

[Bessy765]

Hence the comment do not try to turn the van into a fridge!

 

[Carpmart]

Have you space to fit 2000w of solar on your roof? No me neither, so I don’t think it’s a practical proposition running aircon off batteries.

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[ChrisL]

I have a freshjet 2200 on the roof as well, but mine isn't connected to the batteries as I didn't think it would be practical, it can also blow warm air in the winter as well which is useful, the air is not hot but a little warmer than ambient but over a short period of time is quite effective, handy if you have under floor heating which takes a little time to warm the van up.

 

[scotjimland]

is it like all the other air con units I've had, only worth having on EHU?

correct

 

[eddie]

I'm running out of accessories to install.

Therefore I am toying with the idea of installing under bench air con unit. Probably the freshwell 3000.

Does anyone have this?

also, how long would it run off lithium? or is it like all the other air con units I've had, only worth having on EHU?

tia.

I Wouldn't they are crap especially retro fitted, cold air is meant to drop down and cool, not be pumped up through a hot van first.

Some one will be along to say that they have one and its great, good for them, but professionally we have fitted them and the customers have never been entirely happy, but we would have had no other option due to roof space and the customers "must have air con" for dog, wife, child etc

However, we got to the point where we simply refused to fit them

I had it factory fitted on a German van I ordered which was heavily insulated and very well built and the AC struggled anywhere warm in Europe. I could go into my mates van and feel chilly and the only way we could get any appreciable cooling was to have every blind closed, extra sun screen in addition to the factory fitted blinds and roof light covers, and we decided we didn't want to live in a black hole!

 

[funflair]

It's not a massive van Paul, our air con will cool our van for hours without taking too much out of the batteries although we do have 640ah of lithium, when it cools down and goes to tick over most of the power would come from the 520w of solar, as others have said though don't try to make the van a fridge and give it a chance by pulling blinds down on the sunny side and covering the screen (especially A class).

 

[Orion]

I must be in the minority as I’ve found the roof mounted aircon in our van to be a worthwhile addition. It’s a Truma Aventa unit factory installed in our Adria Compact, so not the biggest of vans but reasonably well insulated.

It pulled the temperatures down very well on full power while we were on EHU in Athens last year, but there’s another reason I want to run it from an inverter when I get around to fitting one. As we have the Truma blown air heating I can set that to ‘Vent’ only from the lower outlets. The aircon unit can work in conjunction with that and provide a high level ‘Vent’ function as well. It uses very little power in that mode compared to the full fat AC function, and we found it usually sufficient to keep us cool, especially at night.

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[Orion]

Further to the above, I’m reliably informed that the Truma Aventa AC unit when in Vent mode on low fan draws 4 amps, rising to 9 amps on high fan. With the compressor working in full AC it draws 45 amps. So either ventilation setting shouldn’t be a problem for us as we have 340w of solar and 2x 100 amp batteries.

 

[Neil S]

I must be in the minority as I’ve found the roof mounted aircon in our van to be a worthwhile addition. It’s a Truma Aventa unit factory installed in our Adria Compact, so not the biggest of vans but reasonably well insulated.

It pulled the temperatures down very well on full power while we were on EHU in Athens last year, but there’s another reason I want to run it from an inverter when I get around to fitting one. As we have the Truma blown air heating I can set that to ‘Vent’ only from the lower outlets. The aircon unit can work in conjunction with that and provide a high level ‘Vent’ function as well. It uses very little power in that mode compared to the full fat AC function, and we found it usually sufficient to keep us cool, especially at night.

Your not , I have the same Truma aventa compact plus fitted to my 7m Pilote it works a treat even on 6amp EHU and cools the van extremely well even in 100f temperatures.
Also have the slightly less powerful Truma compact fitted to our 7.4 metre Coachman Caravan
Summers are getting hotter each year so aircon is necessity IMO although others will disagree

 

[JRT]

Wouldn't be without our Truma Aventa in the roof of the caravan though of course we only use it on mains EHU. Especially when we venture to Europe.

As Neil S has just said works on a 6amp supply (as long of course you don't put anything else like a microwave or kettle).

The only down side is the noise which took us a bit of getting used to but the benefit offsets this IMHO.

 

[eddie]

Roof air is fine, its underfloor ducted that is poor, even worse when trying to retro fit the ducting to the roof

I wouldn't have a camper without AC luckily I have a passion for RV's where AC is standard

 

[haganap]

Have you space to fit 2000w of solar on your roof? No me neither, so I don’t think it’s a practical proposition running aircon off batteries.

correct

I have had roof aircon previously on three ocassions, all worked ok on EHU if not very noisy. However, I don't want roof air con, I wanted the under bench kit just so I could fit it and give myself something to do. Seems like eddie doesn't think that's a good idea as my main thing I wanted to do was to run it off the new Lithium that Ash was going to install for me. Doesn't seem to be worth it though if you're right.

Gonna have to find something else to waste my money on now.

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[Richard n Ann]

I think EuroTrotters has ducted if I recall correctly

 

[EuroTrotters]

I Wouldn't they are crap especially retro fitted, cold air is meant to drop down and cool, not be pumped up through a hot van first.

Some one will be along to say that they have one and its great, good for them, but professionally we have fitted them and the customers have never been entirely happy, but we would have had no other option due to roof space and the customers "must have air con" for dog, wife, child etc

However, we got to the point where we simply refused to fit them

I had it factory fitted on a German van I ordered which was heavily insulated and very well built and the AC struggled anywhere warm in Europe. I could go into my mates van and feel chilly and the only way we could get any appreciable cooling was to have every blind closed, extra sun screen in addition to the factory fitted blinds and roof light covers, and we decided we didn't want to live in a black hole!

Roof air is fine, its underfloor ducted that is poor, even worse when trying to retro fit the ducting to the roof

I wouldn't have a camper without AC luckily I have a passion for RV's where AC is standard

I think EuroTrotters has ducted if I recall correctly

That is where we will disagree Eddie.

I have been in the RAC Industry for 35+ Years. So I have a bit of Knowledge of A/C Technical Background.

I fitted a Truma Saphir Compact Ducted to our 6.8m Hymer. Yes the Ducting of the system was a bit tricky and not straightforwards. But it works well enough for us.

We did not have enough under bench Space for the bigger, more powerful units. But adding things like Outside screen covers and closing blinds, the habitation area is very comfortable.

In Italy in August 2020, the temperature outside was pushing 40c. The temperature in the Motorhome was 26c. Foods like fruits, veg, bread and other larder foods stayed fresh outside of the fridge. You could sleep easy with the A/C on or off at night..

One of The problems as many will mention. Some People expect to be able to park in full sun, blinds open and feel like you are sat in a chiller. That is not how it will be and for health reasons, not how it should be. You really want to be aiming for your living space temperature to be no more than around 10c cooler than the outside temperature. So if its 38c out, 28c in is fine.

In the UK and Northern Hemisphere countries, it is suggested 21c is the preferred ambient A/C room Temperature. 22c for Southern European Countries.

A couple of years ago, Spanish authorities actually tried to force Hospitality and Shopping stores not to set their Climate systems below 27c in summer.

Anyway, back to the Underbench ducted. Works well if installed well if you follow a few simple rules.

Try to park in the shade or part shade
Don't expect it to run for long periods on battery and solar (unless you have a massive Solar array)
It will not cool as efficiently on the move running through Alternator/Battery/Solar, due to sun through cab windows etc
It must be ducted as high up in the Motorhome as possible. Truma's "comfort cooling" system will not work
Give it time to cool down from high ambient temperatures, several hours
Keep windows and doors closed, roof vents can be on vent
They don't like too much of an incline for long periods when in use

Also, put a filter of some kind under the van for the exhaust vent. Truma don't supply one and the impeller and chambers will fill up with crap otherwise.


I will try and post some photos or link a post from installation.

I would not want to be without it.

 

[haganap]

That is where we will disagree Eddie.

I have been in the RAC Industry for 35+ Years. So I have a bit of Knowledge of A/C Technical Background.

I fitted a Truma Saphir Compact Ducted to our 6.8m Hymer. Yes the Ducting of the system was a bit tricky and not straightforwards. But it works well enough for us.

We did not have enough under bench Space for the bigger, more powerful units. But adding things like Outside screen covers and closing blinds, the habitation area is very comfortable.

In Italy in August 2020, the temperature outside was pushing 40c. The temperature in the Motorhome was 26c. Foods like fruits, veg, bread and other larder foods stayed fresh outside of the fridge. You could sleep easy with the A/C on or off at night..

One of The problems as many will mention. Some People expect to be able to park in full sun, blinds open and feel like you are sat in a chiller. That is not how it will be and for health reasons, not how it should be. You really want to be aiming for your living space temperature to be no more than around 10c cooler than the outside temperature. So if its 38c out, 28c in is fine.

In the UK and Northern Hemisphere countries, it is suggested 21c is the preferred ambient A/C room Temperature. 22c for Southern European Countries.

A couple of years ago, Spanish authorities actually tried to force Hospitality and Shopping stores not to set their Climate systems below 27c in summer.

Anyway, back to the Underbench ducted. Works well if installed well if you follow a few simple rules.

Try to park in the shade or part shade
Don't expect it to run for long periods on battery and solar (unless you have a massive Solar array)
It will not cool as efficiently on the move running through Alternator/Battery/Solar, due to sun through cab windows etc
It must be ducted as high up in the Motorhome as possible. Truma's "comfort cooling" system will not work
Give it time to cool down from high ambient temperatures, several hours
Keep windows and doors closed, roof vents can be on vent
They don't like too much of an incline for long periods when in use

Also, put a filter of some kind under the van for the exhaust vent. Truma don't supply one and the impeller and chambers will fill up with crap otherwise.


I will try and post some photos or link a post from installation.

I would not want to be without it.

Ok, makes sense.

However, I was thinking of installing one of two ways so some info would be good.

First of all I think it's important to understand why I want it installed. It's not really to cool the van persay but to have a cool air outlet for our 8 stone hairy beast. When driving, like any dog, she can find the cab aircon outlet and position herself there with no issue.

So my plan was to do one of two things.
Underbench the unit in a space I have, with an outlet/duct pretty much next to installation as this is pretty much perfect for where it needs to vent in to the lounge. Then was to add a duct and travel to the rear of the van to get some cooling done in the bedroom. (gets hot in there sometimes )

Or my second thought was to run it straight in to the heating duct? Then place a shut off in the duct somewhere, my thought then would be that it would cool through the heating duct? Sounds like that's not a good idea though.

seems to be you have to duct high in to the van, so food for thought there then.

 

[eddie]

Good post. The difference is you fitted it yourself and are content. I suspect that you also adapted and tweaked it along the way to end up where your happy

This is a world of difference from fitting commercially where the customer expectations have to be met.

Layout also plays a big part retro fitting. If you have lots of overhead cupboards that link, you stand a chance of being able to install sufficient AC ducting to give you a good spread of AC outlets

Having posted on Fun years ago about my dissatisfaction and disappointment with my factory fitted system, Truma as it happens on a extremely well built and insulated camper, still in production that will cost in excess of quarter on a million pounds I remain firmly of the opinion that I wouldn’t have it as a gift.

I did say in my post that someone would have it and be happy, and I’m glad you are, but I want my AC to be able to cope with the new highs we are experiencing

My current camper a Winnebago View has roof ducted AC from a roof mounted unit, super quiet at night but has the cooling muscle to cope with a treeless pitch adjacent to the beach in 40* Spain.

 

[eddie]

Ok, makes sense.

However, I was thinking of installing one of two ways so some info would be good.

First of all I think it's important to understand why I want it installed. It's not really to cool the van persay but to have a cool air outlet for our 8 stone hairy beast. When driving, like any dog, she can find the cab aircon outlet and position herself there with no issue.

So my plan was to do one of two things.
Underbench the unit in a space I have, with an outlet/duct pretty much next to installation as this is pretty much perfect for where it needs to vent in to the lounge. Then was to add a duct and travel to the rear of the van to get some cooling done in the bedroom. (gets hot in there sometimes )

Or my second thought was to run it straight in to the heating duct? Then place a shut off in the duct somewhere, my thought then would be that it would cool through the heating duct? Sounds like that's not a good idea though.

seems to be you have to duct high in to the van, so food for thought there then.

No the outlets have to be as high as possible, heat rises cool air falls.

One of the issues is you need to duct super cold air from the unit at floor level, up through super hot cupboards to the overhead cupboards distribute it evenly around the motor home. Usually the only viable option floor to ceiling is the wardrobe.

The ductwork has to be well insulated so ideally, then boxed un to protect it and to make it look aesthetically pleasing.

So, roof mounted AC, you get back to the camper, it’s stifling so you turn on the AC and immediately cool air is pumped out of the unit and starts to cool, with ducted it’s got to pump the hot air from the ducting into the motorhome before any cooler air flows, and of course if you put cold air into a warm duct, depending on how much ducting you have ( remembering you want a decent amount of ducted outlets dotted around the motorhome to give an even overall cooling effect) the longer it takes to achieve a cooling effect as the ducting will naturally warm the cold air passing through it until it is cooled along its length.

It is all do’able and layout plays a lottery part in its effectiveness :- Space to mount the AC unit, adjacent to a wardrobe that abuts a run or ceiling wall cupboards, typically a U shaped rear lounge for example would give you a cooled ‘zone’

For many that couldn’t have roof mounted AC a freestanding unit that could be on the van when higher temperatures were anticipated and left at home saving payload Winer/Spring

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[Ridgeway]

We have a Truma Saphir underfloor (same as the Freshwell I guess) certainly very quiet but as others have said will not chill the entire van down like a large rooftop system. It creates decent airflow through the van and does take a few degrees off when needed. The outlets on ours (we have 4) rotate, so like the vents in your car dashboard they can be directed reasonably well.

For K9 cooling it would be good as long as you can have the outlet in the right place

 

[dawsey]

To add to all the good stuff written by Eurotrotters, I can add the below comments.

I’m another who had the idea of solar powered aircon, when we planned to be spending large amounts of time in the van in Southern France. Our van is an old 6m Hymer B544.

I fitted 600W of solar and an Aventa Compact (about 600W) and yes the solar panels will effectively power the AC unit in full sun with minimal fill-in draw from the 200Ah of lithium batteries. The problem is that the AC unit is always fighting a losing battle in full sun, even using south facing awning etc.

There’s no doubt A/C is a huge benefit when seeing consistent high day time temperatures, and yes it’s an easy solution with EHU. However, getting the benefits of AC with solar and lithium batteries is a challenge when it’s really hot in southern Europe. I found the problem, in a nutshell, to be the need to put the van in shade (under trees etc - to avoid turning the van into an oven and give the AC a chance) then dramatically reduces the ability of the roof solar panels to provide the power or recharge the batteries.

My own conclusion was that the best way to do it (off grid solar powered AC) is by having the majority of your solar as a portable, deployable remote array of panels. Park the van safely in the shade and put the panels in the sun. Yes you will still need lots of lithium and also a decent B2B if you want to recharge quick from the engine or use your (non engine driven) AC on the move.

Of course, and as ever, much depends on how you will use the van.

 

[MisterB]

haganap

as you are of a similar mind set to me (always wanting to add to a perfectly working moho, often for no other reason than because you can), have you considered adding another axle to help carry the additional stuff you now carry LOL ...

if i add any more stuff, ive been told that SWMS (She Who Must Shop) will gladly offer up her 'payload' as she's getting bored with me spending more time adding stuff than actually using the moho ....

 

[EuroTrotters]

Ok, makes sense.

However, I was thinking of installing one of two ways so some info would be good.

First of all I think it's important to understand why I want it installed. It's not really to cool the van persay but to have a cool air outlet for our 8 stone hairy beast. When driving, like any dog, she can find the cab aircon outlet and position herself there with no issue.

So my plan was to do one of two things.
Underbench the unit in a space I have, with an outlet/duct pretty much next to installation as this is pretty much perfect for where it needs to vent in to the lounge. Then was to add a duct and travel to the rear of the van to get some cooling done in the bedroom. (gets hot in there sometimes )

Or my second thought was to run it straight in to the heating duct? Then place a shut off in the duct somewhere, my thought then would be that it would cool through the heating duct? Sounds like that's not a good idea though.

seems to be you have to duct high in to the van, so food for thought there then.

don't put it through heating ducts, that is Truma Comfort and is rubbish

 

[EuroTrotters]

For Habitation A/C you require EHU or a Genny. Or be on the move with a big enough alternator and maybe Solar.

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[roadwarrior]

im finding this discussion fasinating - so what about the window aircons i see sometimes. ? as far as i can see you need to seal the window area - but the concept seems reasonable, with add on solar panals on the floor and sitting in the shade ?
and how does this stack up to a humble omnivent ?

 

[MisterB]

im finding this discussion fasinating - so what about the window aircons i see sometimes. ? as far as i can see you need to seal the window area - but the concept seems reasonable, with add on solar panals on the floor and sitting in the shade ?
and how does this stack up to a humble omnivent ?

you dont need to seal the window area on some types, check out Cool My Camper ......

Cool My Camper - Air Conditioning For Caravans and Motorhomes

Cool your caravan or motorhome with our portable air conditioning designed for motorhomes, caravans and campers.

www.coolmycamper.com

 

[EuroTrotters]

im finding this discussion fasinating - so what about the window aircons i see sometimes. ? as far as i can see you need to seal the window area - but the concept seems reasonable, with add on solar panals on the floor and sitting in the shade ?
and how does this stack up to a humble omnivent ?

More suited to stationery use. But that’s not to say it cannot be adapted

 

[fred_jb]

I have a freshjet 2200 on the roof as well, but mine isn't connected to the batteries as I didn't think it would be practical, it can also blow warm air in the winter as well which is useful, the air is not hot but a little warmer than ambient but over a short period of time is quite effective, handy if you have under floor heating which takes a little time to warm the van up.

Similar here. I installed a Dometic FJX2200 in place of the rear roof vent over the fixed rear bed. I believe you can get a 12V adapter for these, but having done the sums I realised that was a non-starter for our 12V setup which has 2 x 95 Ah AGM batteries and 280W of solar. So far I've only used the AC in heating mode while working on various mods to the van, and have found it to be very effective and saves burning gas in the Truma unit, but we are about to head off to southern Europe, so will hopefully be testing the cooling performance soon! I found it not too difficult to fit - though getting it physically up on the roof was a bit of a challenge needing help from my son, as was routing an armoured mains cable invisibly to the rear of the van from the mains distribution box under the dinette seat.

The other issue was that the roof vent was fitted onto a sealed in frame which fills in corrugations in the roof so I wanted to retain that but this meant that the rubber blocks that the AC unit sits on were about 5mm too high off the surface of the roof. That was solved by bolting on an alloy plate at the rear which also reinforced the roof, as the unit slightly encroachs on the rear overdoor cross panel which is not as rigid as the roof. I glued down smaller alloy pieces to support the four front/side blocks.

I did consider one of the floor level AC units thinking it might be an easier DIY proposition, but was put off by the storage space which would be lost to it, plus the need to cut holes in the floor and route ugly vents to high level outlets. I'm now glad I went for the roof mounted option.