6 Amp Hook up's.....

[mark e]

6 Amp Hook up's.....is this the norm ?
Electric hookup tripped off 3 times since hooking up
I only had a 700w rad, tv and digi box and a 2.2kw kettle on :Sad:

I asked the maintanance man what AMP's the touring field was.....6 amps

£20 a night for 6amp's, no wonder why people are wildcamping with solar and genny's.

Does'nt sound a lot though does it by the time you put you'r gadgets on.......

 

[dylan]

4 big RVs, 2 caravans, one small motorhome here this weekend and we are chuffed no trips as yet (she said with fingers crossed) - 16amp on site.:thumb:

 

[mark e]

Yes Dylan been to your place, very nice, flying visit though sorry, when you had the first FUN meet. 16 Amps seems very generous in my opinion, as i got talking to the site worker and he said a lot of campsites are downing the AMP's from 16 to 6 oh:

Next time i go somwhere i will be asking how many they do, then compare the price

 

[moandick]

Hi Mark

I do sympathise with your situation and I am not an electrician BUT I think you answered your own question.........

A 2.2 kw Kettle is going to pull at least 8 amps when working normally plus a bit more when initially switched on. Add the 700w fire which equates to another 3 amps plus your battery charger, fridge and hot water system working away quietly in the background etc., etc., etc and you are probably well over the top of a 6 amp supply.

Having said that where are you? £20 per night to include a 6 amp supply is one place I don't want to be - unless it is on the Mediteranean coast in Spain!

 

[mark e]

moandick, see thread "freezing weekend".

Yes now you add all those up.... i suppose :Blush::Blush::Blush:

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[dylan]

Hi Mark yes I do remember you popping by, well this site is not changing to 6amp we think we have got it right with the 16amp as the electrician said better to be over than under and it still hasn't tripped and as you say it has been bloomin freezing !

 

[RichardnGill]

We are o Brownhills over night at Newark tonight and we have tripped the EHU out. we have had to put the heating on the the electric 1 setting and use gas as well.

Not to much of a problem as its free here but we have in the past been able to run everything here no problem, mabey they have set the trips lowers to save cash.

we were on a CL last night at £7.50 a night and had no problems.

Roll on the summer when we dont need heating.


Richard...

 

[Road Runner]

Mark did you have you 240 volt water heater on.

There are so many combinations that will trip most site poles.

Kettles, room heaters, microwave, water heaters and so on

 

[mark e]

No, i didnt use the water heater either.

 

[JayDee]

Easily done if you haven't been warned.
You draw at least 4 amps for each kilowatt (1000 watts) you have running, then you need to allow a bit more 'just to be sure'. Some places I've been don't allow you access to reset the switch and I've been on some places in the past where tripping the switch took other people out as well - how popular would that make you.:Blush: But that's probably illegal now (in UK anyway - someone'll tell me if I'm wrong).

Of course the extra 10 amps allows the customer to use another 2.5kWatts which is probably in the order of 25 pence an hour per pitch. Soon mounts up, and cutting back to 6amps is a 'backdoor' way of making savings that a lot of people wouldn't notice.

I think I agree that for that rate per night I would expect 16amps on my hook-up.

It's worth asking before you stump up the cash.

John

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[oldun]

Though many sites, such as Caravan Club sites quote 16Amps they cannot supply 16A to all pitches at the same time, there just isn't that much current available.

Just imagine how much electricity a site of 200 pitches would need. 200 time 16 = 3200 Amps or 800 kW. This sort of power just isn't there. The installation cost and running costs would be prohibitive.

You will just have to get use to using a 800Watt kettle and enjoying life while the water boils very slowly.

Also make a list of all your 240V items and the current they use. You can then insure that at any one time the pitch limit is not exceeded.

 

[ruffingitsmoothly]

It's simple to work out your amps just divide the watts by voltage, so a 1000 Watt appliance would draw just over 4 amps 4.16 to be precise.

We were in Ireland in April and most of the sites were 6amp and we coped ok with our RV TV and Satellite, fridge and for tea we used a 700 Watt kettle takes a bit longer but hey we were on holiday.

I can understand site owners reducing the amperage of their hookups I have often seen heaters and lights left on in awnings with no one about a complete waste of the electricity, they seem to be of the mentality I've paid for 16 amps and I am going to use 16 amps:Angry::Angry:

Regrads Pat

 

[Braunston]

Hi, The CC may quote a ampere but on nearly all of the toilet doors they ask everyone to keep down to a 1kw heater in winter, how do the 2 things equate ???

 

[moandick]

The point here, of course, is that legally the site is not selling you electricity - it is charging you for the hire of the equipment to enable you to connect to the electric supply!

Many moons ago, the law was changed to stop landlords charging for electric supplied to bedsits etc, at a cost greater than the landlord actually paid the supply company. This was to stop landlords from 'winding up' the electric meters to sell minimum amounts of electric at hugely inflated prices.

Up to then Caravan sites could charge £2 or £3 per night for the electric supplied to your pitch. However, after the law changed, making a general charge for electric supplied was not possible because in theory, if you paid for £3 worth of electric then the site had to make sure that you used £3 worth of electric - if you used less, the site was actually making an illegal profit.

The only answer was to supply electric through a meter and you paid for the actual amount used - at the same price that the site paid the supply company.

The problem with that was the cost of installing meters on every pitch, coupled with the fact that sites expected to make a profit on electric, especially during the summer months. :Angry:

The only way around the law was to give the electric away free BUT to charge £3 or so for the 'hire' of the hook-up equipment. Once again the Site was making a profit on the electric supplied - UNTIL the recent price rises, where the cost of the electric has gone sky high.

So the instant answer - still charge £3 or more for the hire of the hook-up equipment but decrease the amperage supplied to a maximum of 10 amps - or even better (in their view, more profitable) 6 amps - and that way the site is back in profit again - for the time being!

Just as an example - Olley worked out some months ago - that if you used a full 16 amps of electric for every minute of a 24 hour day - at a general cost of something like 9 or 10 pence per unit used - in theory you could burn over £12 of electric per day

Using that example - It doesn't take an Einstein to work out that even at 6 amps useage you can still burn far more than £3 per day - and the basic cost of electric supplied now is probably higher than it was when Olley first worked out his example.

Dick

 

[pappajohn]

its easy enough to change a 16a MCB for a 6a MCB. they cost around a fiver and take 10mins to change BUT then they MUST have a new NIC--IEC test certificate issued for each and every pole converted which costs serious money. and this is the responsibilty of the site owner.
wonder what the sites would do if you insisted on seeing the certificate.

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[JayDee]

The point here, of course, is that legally the site is not selling you electricity - it is charging you for the hire of the equipment to enable you to connect to the electric supply!

Many moons ago, the law was changed to stop landlords charging for electric supplied to bedsits etc, at a cost greater than the landlord actually paid the supply company. This was to stop landlords from 'winding up' the electric meters to sell minimum amounts of electric at hugely inflated prices.

Up to then Caravan sites could charge £2 or £3 per night for the electric supplied to your pitch. However, after the law changed, making a general charge for electric supplied was not possible because in theory, if you paid for £3 worth of electric then the site had to make sure that you used £3 worth of electric - if you used less, the site was actually making an illegal profit.

The only answer was to supply electric through a meter and you paid for the actual amount used - at the same price that the site paid the supply company.

The problem with that was the cost of installing meters on every pitch, coupled with the fact that sites expected to make a profit on electric, especially during the summer months. :Angry:

The only way around the law was to give the electric away free BUT to charge £3 or so for the 'hire' of the hook-up equipment. Once again the Site was making a profit on the electric supplied - UNTIL the recent price rises, where the cost of the electric has gone sky high.

So the instant answer - still charge £3 or more for the hire of the hook-up equipment but decrease the amperage supplied to a maximum of 10 amps - or even better (in their view, more profitable) 6 amps - and that way the site is back in profit again - for the time being!

Just as an example - Olley worked out some months ago - that if you used a full 16 amps of electric for every minute of a 24 hour day - at a general cost of something like 9 or 10 pence per unit used - in theory you could burn over £12 of electric per day

Using that example - It doesn't take an Einstein to work out that even at 6 amps useage you can still burn far more than £3 per day - and the basic cost of electric supplied now is probably higher than it was when Olley first worked out his example.

Dick

A couple of weeks ago we stayed on a CS not far from Wickham in Hampshire and they had installed 'prepay' meters in the 5 pitch field. When we arrived the warden / owner put £6 onto the metre - she thought that would be enough for our 3 nights, but if we needed more just let her know, and if we didn't use it all we'd get a refund (but since we were to be paying on departure it actually meant that we would be paying what we used). They evidently went this route after they had a huge RV type vehicle with washing machine, tumble drier etc., etc. clocking up £15 a day - they were charging £2 for the hook-up. :Sad:
A good scheme, but as you say, expensive to install.

John

 

[pappajohn]

sounds very fair to me jaydee,:thumb: and the site will adjust the meter accordingly to cover installation costs (probably forever)

why should you have to pay a set fee when you might not use anywhere near what you've been charged for.
on the other hand.........

 

[keith]

I have seen sites in Spain that charge by the KW, and done through a computer. We have never been charged this way yet, but one site we will be staying on now states long stay campers will be charged this way. We shall find out how this works during the coming winter. :Sad:
Seem to me that we will be using the solar panel to supliment the electric usage. :thumb:

 

[olley]

Hi I reckon reducing the ampage will become more common as electric prices rise, some sites especially abroad have had low ampage for years.

Their are ways for us RV/motorhomers to get around it but they are expensive, or very expensive Victron do a system whereby you incoming power is automatically supplimented by you batteries if need be, see here: http://*********************/victron-phoenix-multiplus-chargerinverter-p-119.html

I went for the less expensive DIY job, with either system you need a large battery bank, I got 3x180amp from Pheonix batteries and then I ran a separate supply to the charger only via a changeover switch from the electric locker, so when I go on a low ampage site I plug the battery charger in only and run all the electrics from the inverter.

This allows us using an 1800watt inverter to run all the normal low power things like telly and gas heating, plus plug a kettle in or toaster, and works well. Ideally you need a decent charger mine is 50amp, this draws under 3amps on 230v running flat out which means I don't trip a 4amp supply.

Olley

 

[bobandjanie]

Hi we had this on a site in Spain and they locked your lead in the box, and we kept over loading it, I got quite good at pushing the trip switch up with a long handle wooden spoon up the bottom of the box where your lead went in, you soon learn to turn some things off and use your 12v and gas. Thanks Bob.

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[keith]

Hi I reckon reducing the ampage will become more common as electric prices rise, some sites especially abroad have had low ampage for years.

Their are ways for us RV/motorhomers to get around it but they are expensive, or very expensive Victron do a system whereby you incoming power is automatically supplimented by you batteries if need be, see here: http://*********************/victron-phoenix-multiplus-chargerinverter-p-119.html

I went for the less expensive DIY job, with either system you need a large battery bank, I got 3x180amp from Pheonix batteries and then I ran a separate supply to the charger only via a changeover switch from the electric locker, so when I go on a low ampage site I plug the battery charger in only and run all the electrics from the inverter.

This allows us using an 1800watt inverter to run all the normal low power things like telly and gas heating, plus plug a kettle in or toaster, and works well. Ideally you need a decent charger mine is 50amp, this draws under 3amps on 230v running flat out which means I don't trip a 4amp supply.

Olley

I like your idea Olley but I cannot afford the increase in payload.

It's OK for your 'Big Rig' but we have to be more modest in our choice of systems.

We do have eveyrthing we can on 12V so our dependence on mains is reduced to mainly heating in the cold nights. We have a deisel heater but that is clearly getting more expensive as the cost of fuel rises. :Sad:

 

[olley]

Hi keith I got the idea of "Gromett" on facts, he bought the Victron and had 4x220amp batteries in a eurovan without overloading it, and I thought that's a good idea, I wonder if their is a cheaper way to achieve a similar result, as I already had the batteries and inverter, it was a good excuse to dump the crap yank 110v charger for a Sterling digital 230v 50amp.

Olley

 

[oldun]

For many years I have visited campsites in France for a campsite guide, once as many as 84 in one year.

In France I should assume that you will be getting 6A unless stated otherwise.

I can only remember one site that provided 16A. Most provide 6A with the possibility of paying more for 10A. A couple of sites provided only 4A.

You must also remember that when abroad electric kettles and all other types of resistive devices draw less current and consume less watts, at 220V then they do at 240X - about 15% less.

However the dear old EU is trying harmonize things so that we all use 230V - then the kettle will consume the same current everywhere.

many sites in the UK, including the Caravan Club sites have an advertisement blurb similar to that of the Broadband Providers - i.e. they offer UP TO 16A.

They actually state (something like) that the fuse is 16A but under conditions of heavy load (first thing in the morning) you may only be able to get 4A.

Imagine providing 200 pitches with 16A, that's 3200 A or 800 kW. Th cables will not be able to carry the load and the supplier may not be able to supply it. One of the sites offering only 4A stated that this was the maximum allowable by his supplier.

 

[stagman]

It's simple to work out your amps just divide the watts by voltage, so a 1000 Watt appliance would draw just over 4 amps 4.16 to be precise.

We were in Ireland in April and most of the sites were 6amp and we coped ok with our RV TV and Satellite, fridge and for tea we used a 700 Watt kettle takes a bit longer but hey we were on holiday.

I can understand site owners reducing the amperage of their hookups I have often seen heaters and lights left on in awnings with no one about a complete waste of the electricity, they seem to be of the mentality I've paid for 16 amps and I am going to use 16 amps:Angry::Angry:

Regrads Pat

The voltage used nowadays to calculate your current is 230v therefore your amps on 1kw would be 4.38 amps. not much left then on your 6 amp MCB.Another point is you can't just up your mcb to 16a not as easy as that,you would need also to take into account your supply cables,switchgear and incoming fuses which would be a hjuge expense for any site owner.

 

[billym]

I am not sure what this thread is about but I must say that we have regularly stayed on

sites with 6 amps and have no trouble at all in a 35 foot RV. You just learn to

switch one thing off when you use another.

I stayed in my friends house this weekend and was amazed at the huge array of

electrical items that were either left on or languishing on standby. Just a total

waste of money.

6 amps is plenty..............people should just change their ways. ( I hear

someone say , " What about the microve? " Well, do without it ! )

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[stagman]

I am not sure what this thread is about but I must say that we have regularly stayed on

sites with 6 amps and have no trouble at all in a 35 foot RV. You just learn to

switch one thing off when you use another.

I stayed in my friends house this weekend and was amazed at the huge array of

electrical items that were either left on or languishing on standby. Just a total

waste of money.

6 amps is plenty..............people should just change their ways. ( I hear

someone say , " What about the microve? " Well, do without it ! )

Complettely and totally agree with you,I have a 800w ceramic heater if need be and this heats 7mtr van with no problems.2 wks in France no hook up at all solar panel and 3 x110a batterys,1000w inverter occasionally for the hairdryer,telly,fridge and cooking on gas job done.:thumb: