Winnebago EKKO off grid camper

[funflair]

Sorry I'm still sceptical. If torque converters issues have all gone why aren't heavy trucks using them?

I wonder if torque converters need more revs to get going than a big truck motor is generally happy with, in the Flair I would pull away with not much more than tick over which of course is kind on the clutch, the Palace needs lots of revs especially if there is a little kerb or a rut in a field to climb out of, once on a roll I agree it does seem to lock up as the revs don’t change independently to the speed.

 

[tonyidle]

I get pleasure from judging the road ahead, selecting the right gear for a hill or corner at a point before the feature, so that, without using the brakes, I arrive there at the right speed to execute the manoeuvre and pull away in that gear. of course it may involve downshifting two gears.

An autobox cannot do that anticipation.

Maybe it sounds a bit geekish to some but I don't care - it gives me pleasure.

Geoff

I always felt the same but even with the Borg-Warner anticipation was perfectly possible. A move from D to 2 put the car in a ratio good for standstill to just short of 90mph - it was a superb overtaking gear (a bit like manual 2nd & 3rd without the shift). There's always been a misapprehension that if one drives an auto then changing it manually is somehow cheating. It isn't because where an auto scores is in slow moving traffic and for manoeuvring in confined spaces. When you wish to drive it as you would a manual you can do so. Modern autos are even better - the selector in my Mercedes mh can be moved transversely into a slot marked +/-. Moving it appropriately shifts the box up or down the gears. The Smart car has the same option but it really is slick in auto - the shifts are instantaneous and almost undetectable. It's incredibly responsive to throttle position (DSG auto as I said earlier).

 

[tonyidle]

I wonder if torque converters need more revs to get going than a big truck motor is generally happy with, in the Flair I would pull away with not much more than tick over which of course is kind on the clutch, the Palace needs lots of revs especially if there is a little kerb or a rut in a field to climb out of, once on a roll I agree it does seem to lock up as the revs don’t change independently to the speed.

Torque converters are designed to match the engine characteristics and driving experience required so there is no issue matching them to a low speed Diesel engine lugging 40 tonnes.

 

[jongood]

Torque converters are designed to match the engine characteristics and driving experience required so there is no issue matching them to a low speed Diesel engine lugging 40 tonnes.

The only Torque Converter automatic truck gearbox I can find is Allison ( american), they were the only auto truck box for years and the goto choice for Bin lorries and fire engines. But it is incredibly rare over here, the reason being that they are thirsty. Doesnt really matter in a Motorhome because the mileages are small but it does on a CV that could easily be doing 70/80K pa.

Volvo I shift is widely acknowledged as being the best gearbox on a truck right now.

HOW IT WORKS
I-Shift is based on a "classic" unsynchronised manual gearbox – hence its compact design and low internal losses. The magic happens in the electronic control unit that manages the clutch and shifts. By evaluating information about speed, weight, road grade and torque demand, it applies extreme precision to every shift. The system also communicates with the engine, allowing it to adjust the revs and brakes for best performance

Scania (2nd) has opticruise



ZF



I agree that on a Motorway there isnt much difference and a multi gear auto can be better but its when you pull away the engine speed rises faster than the road speed, multiply this by the amount of starts and there is your difference.

 

[jongood]

I have a 2008 ML420 with the 7G transmission. Ok not latest generation but it claims:-

the transmission can skip gears when downshifting. It also has a torque converter lock-up on all seven gears, allowing better transmission of torque for improved acceleration. The transmission's casing is made of magnesium alloy, a first for the industry, to save weight.

And guess what happens when I put my foot down, the engine speed rises faster than the road speed.

The car really suits my needs and the engine is superb but the gearbox has given me grief. My next car will be older, petrol and manual.

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[sallylillian]

I could get 24 out of the Flair if I tried or 19 if I tried even harder the Palace is taller heavier and a touch wider so the numbers are stacked against it.

Well I only managed 17 with my Flair Martin.

 

[Littlewheels]

Love it or Loath it

 

[funflair]

Love it or Loath it

View attachment 442663

Saw that on N+B FB page, not too keen myself but look nicely finished

 

[sallylillian]

Saw that on N+B FB page, not too keen myself but look nicely finished

Whilst the colour would not necessarily be my choice as it looks like a local bus company van, however the finish is very good from what I can see. I believe its an around €20k option?

 

[supervario]

must be a liverpool suporter the colour is great but is it auto or manual

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[SuperMike]

The only Torque Converter automatic truck gearbox I can find is Allison ( american), they were the only auto truck box for years and the goto choice for Bin lorries and fire engines. But it is incredibly rare over here, the reason being that they are thirsty. Doesnt really matter in a Motorhome because the mileages are small but it does on a CV that could easily be doing 70/80K pa.

Please to note my signature.

 

[AndyVW]

The Motorhome market, according to smmt registered 31K, + motorhomes in the uk in 2019 (new)
the French registered 33K. both of all weights categories
The Americans Register. 480k motorhomes in 2019.
To say the all American RV,s are flimsy, old design, low tech.
is like saying all British but motorhomes are built of tissue paper, Both statements are not true,
There is serious crap both sides of the pond, But there are some gem,s
Automated Manuel gearboxes, (DSG, Tipmatic, I shift, etc, etc,) were invented because the Commercial driver, was not getting the best fuel from 44 tons, most of the time. so the industry took away the human interfering with the gear changes. I,m sorry to say but that is an industry fact.

The full automatic box is offered in high stop start applications, and performance application, as mentioned (dust carts and fire engines) to name but two.
They are also offered in heavy transport, as again you cannot rely on the driver to start a vehicle with 250 ton on its back, on a clutch The entire Army recovery fleet, has full automatic,s.

It like most other things ... it comes down to initial cost.

The fuel consumption argument will rage on and on, But as I was part of many trials, manuals against autos and Full autos.

At the end of a weeks work, the auto, Always had the best fuel consumption.

 

[Wyvern]

Check out the recently announced Winnebago EKKO, really cool.
A true off grid Camper, massive spec around £125000.
Does anyone in Europe make something similar for the price.

New HYMER MLT 570 Crossover 4x4 wold be my preference. Much nicer inside and really well equipped for winter off grid.

 

[jongood]

Well I only managed 17 with my Flair Martin.

I bet your Mercedes is a different ballgame Michael

 

[sallylillian]

I bet your Mercedes is a different ballgame Michael

Not as bad as my Yankee, that was 8mpg downhill, the Morelo is getting better now its done nearly 10k and I am getting between 14 and 15 mpg although earlier in its life I was lucky to get 13!!

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[jongood]

Not as bad as my Yankee, that was 8mpg downhill, the Morelo is getting better now its done nearly 10k and I am getting between 14 and 15 mpg although earlier in its life I was lucky to get 13!!

A better driving experience as well, without the lag of a torque converter?

 

[AndyVW]

I,m going to have to demon-straight to you the virtues of an Allison ..... What Lag. You've been driving tomany old cars!!!!! LoL.