Whitby Marina carpark. (1 Viewer)

pappajohn

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Was on local radio today the above carpark is going to be included in the Whitby motorhome parking ban..... Eventually.
But..... The announcer said the ban has been contested 'by motorhomers' and won't be put in place until its been before the councils appeals Committee......as Whitby comes under Scarborough council the nails are in the coffin, just waiting for the hammer.

This ban included two or three other places but I didn't catch where they were, other than in Whitby.

You have been warned.
 

PeteH

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You might also wish to know that the Period of objection has long since passed.!



Convenient, Or am I being Cynical?.
 

sdc77

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I'm sure it was correctly displayed as are all public notices and I would guess that the period to object was in order.
Just seems like they're determined and thorough?
 
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PeteH

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Just seems like they're determined and thorough?

And possibly bloody minded. 2 ways that goes:- 1) The Campsites benefit. (rub hands with glee at 25quid per night) 2) People vote with their wheels and go elsewhere, what benefit might have been, goes with them.

As has been worn to death on here in various posts. There is a lack of cheap, simple, basic, overnight stops in this Island.

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sdc77

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And possibly bloody minded. 2 ways that goes:- 1) The Campsites benefit. (rub hands with glee at 25quid per night) 2) People vote with their wheels and go elsewhere, what benefit might have been, goes with them.

As has been worn to death on here in various posts. There is a lack of cheap, simple, basic, overnight stops in this Island.
Granted

But the council are there for the local community. . Not the travelling community or the motorhome fraternity. Local needs and requirements surely have to take priority.
I have yet to see any evidence that allowing motorhomes to stay in car parks overnight is of any significant benefit to local economies.
 

PeteH

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Granted

But the council are there for the local community. . Not the travelling community or the motorhome fraternity. Local needs and requirements surely have to take priority.
I have yet to see any evidence that allowing motorhomes to stay in car parks overnight is of any significant benefit to local economies.

That is because no one has done the research yet, Council officers etc can make all sorts of "Information Gathering" trips to exotic foreign places, but cannot find time to "investigate" if there is a demand (or not?) for some simple limited overnight stay area`s that could potentially bring/keep benefit to the local economy. The nearest "campsite" to Whitby that I know of (Sandsend) is very nice, fully facilitated, and had a bus stop outside. BUT 25quid per night. When all you need is to "park"? play at being a tourist until late, kip, and move on?. We are awash with advice to "take a break" and not drive UN-refreshed, But the same authorities are closing lay-bys daily, putting restriction on overnighting etc;.

I am not a convinced "wild camper" and more often than not use sites (C-L`s mostly). But being able to access (in one instance in Whitby) a late night event and then sleep in the car park and be away the next morning (or even done some sight seeing and potentially shopping?) would have been advantageous. But is actually Banned.
 
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34127

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Granted

But the council are there for the local community. . Not the travelling community or the motorhome fraternity. Local needs and requirements surely have to take priority.
I have yet to see any evidence that allowing motorhomes to stay in car parks overnight is of any significant benefit to local economies.
So much so that they are going to introduce winter car parking fees for everyone including business owners. The winter being the time when there are few visitors and already a struggle for businesses to survive.

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Tanya_and_Mick

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I wonder what is the cost to the local council for providng parking for Motorhomes; plus, what the likley revenue from the motorhome community that would offset that cost?

If you were parked-up how much would you typically spend?

Parking cost, fish n chips for two and a couple of pints in the local, in conjunction with browsing local shops and attractions - would a typical spend be £50?​
 
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Granted

But the council are there for the local community. . Not the travelling community or the motorhome fraternity. Local needs and requirements surely have to take priority.
I have yet to see any evidence that allowing motorhomes to stay in car parks overnight is of any significant benefit to local economies.

Certainly councils are for the local community but here’s some evidence for you. I parked in the motorhome marked bays in the marina car park, paid the parking fee, walked into town and had a nice but fairly expensive meal, did some shopping in local butchers, (beef great and probably best pork pies ever) then walked back to motorhome to drive off having spent well in excess of £100. My motorhome could only have been seen by the houses opposite above and on the other side of the rail track. It didn’t cause any inconvenience to anyone and the money I spent would not have been spent in the town if I had not been allowed to park. There were about another ten motorhome in the correct bays and their occupants were not present, probably spending money in the town as I was. I didn’t stay overnight and don’t know if others did. However had we stayed no inconvenience would have been caused and the money would still have been spent, probably more in fact as we would have gone into the town again.
 

Tanya_and_Mick

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Certainly councils are for the local community but here’s some evidence for you. I parked in the motorhome marked bays in the marina car park, paid the parking fee, walked into town and had a nice but fairly expensive meal, did some shopping in local butchers, (beef great and probably best pork pies ever) then walked back to motorhome to drive off having spent well in excess of £100. My motorhome could only have been seen by the houses opposite above and on the other side of the rail track. It didn’t cause any inconvenience to anyone and the money I spent would not have been spent in the town if I had not been allowed to park. There were about another ten motorhome in the correct bays and their occupants were not present, probably spending money in the town as I was. I didn’t stay overnight and don’t know if others did. However had we stayed no inconvenience would have been caused and the money would still have been spent, probably more in fact as we would have gone into the town again.
A great example....

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scotjimland

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I wonder what is the cost to the local council for providng parking for Motorhomes; plus, what the likley revenue from the motorhome community that would offset that cost?

If you were parked-up how much would you typically spend?

Parking cost, fish n chips for two and a couple of pints in the local, in conjunction with browsing local shops and attractions - would a typical spend be £50?​

A great example....

Yes, but it's only an example..

It's impossible to quantify .. I would guess only a few spend £100 .. many others will stock up with food and drink at a out of town supermarket and spend as little as possible.. or perhaps only a few pounds.

A family with a car will in many cases buy everything they eat and drink.. spending more per head than a couple in a motorhome..

To answer your question..again it would depend, when we go to a site, generally a CL we come fully stocked. We rarely eat out, and don't drink, so very little other than a post cards or local souvenir, and perhaps chippy at night.. so probably less than £20..

It's a rich person who can spend £100 every day


All is conjecture...
 

Tanya_and_Mick

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Yes, but it's only an example..

It's impossible to quantify .. I would guess only a few spend £100 .. many others will stock up with food and drink at a out of town supermarket and spend as little as possible.. or perhaps only a few pounds.

A family with a car will in many cases buy everything they eat and drink.. spending more per head than a couple in a motorhome..

To answer your question..again it would depend, when we go to a site, generally a CL we come fully stocked. We rarely eat out, and don't drink, so very little other than a post cards or local souvenir, and perhaps chippy at night.. so probably less than £20..

It's a rich person who can spend £100 every day


All is conjecture...
So, interesting to guess what the cost and impact to the local council budget is for providing motorhome parking and if other local services would suffer - my guess would be low cost and low impact; but others may know more?
 

Nasher

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As posted above, this has been done to death, but here's my 2 bobs worth anyway!

As motorhomers we are very small in number, to expect local authorities to go to the expense of providing facilities to a small group of people would be, in my opinion, unfair to the council tax payers of that council. I certainly would object if my council proposed spending my money on motorhome facilities. Even if it were potentially commercially viable to provide facilities, councils are rarely good at commerce and would probably make a loss!

The chances are that councils could provide facilities for a larger group of people (fishermen, cyclist, birdwatchers?) who may spend more than motorhomers & provide a bigger benefit to the local economy? Judging by the many threads on here about saving money, I think that is not an unreasonable assumption!

Things evolve, we are seeing an increase in popularity of motorhoming at the moment. Some of that is due to caravanners changing to motorhomes, so the increase in demand for sites etc may not be as great as we think.
Whether the number of motorhomers continues to grow is an unknown. But if it does, I do not believe that councils should be the ones to meet our needs, it should be the private sector. The law of supply & demand will eventually decide on the price & facilities that become available & sustainable.
Part of that evolution may mean a demise in income for B&Bs as we use motorhomes instead, should the councils subsidise them? Don't forget B&B's are probably council tax payers.

I think we should try take the view of a non-motorhomer when we consider these issues? Just because we choose to use a motohome doesn't mean the whole country has to change to accommodate us.

With few exceptions, motorhoming is a hobby/pastime not a god given right!

Now, I know the above may be controversial, so am expecting partial quotes & angry replies:)

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GJH

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I wonder what is the cost to the local council for providng parking for Motorhomes; plus, what the likley revenue from the motorhome community that would offset that cost?

If you were parked-up how much would you typically spend?

Parking cost, fish n chips for two and a couple of pints in the local, in conjunction with browsing local shops and attractions - would a typical spend be £50?​
What we would spend varies greatly - investigated 4 years ago in .

Similarly, the cost will vary depending on what is in place and what is provided.
Guisborough only cost about £1000 but as it didn't work very little was recouped.
One of the Irish ones cost about £60,000 I think (mentioned on a few threads but I haven't a link). I don't know how much it has recouped.
 

GJH

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That is because no one has done the research yet
Are you certain that is the case?
It may well be that councils might have done some research and come to the conclusion that investment in motorhome facilities is not good economics.
For instance, the disappointing example of Guisborough means that Redcar & Cleveland is wary about spending money.
Would motorhomers actually find overnight facilities as attractive in places such as Accrington or Walsall (just as examples)? Attractive enough to persuade councils to invest?
The fact is that demand varies and the case has to be made for individual places. That case has to be made by those who want the facility.
 

GJH

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There is a lack of cheap, simple, basic, overnight stops in this Island.
So open some then :)
Sorry, cheeky remark.
The serious point, though, is that people are not interested in doing so because cheap to the consumer means a cost to the provider and providers (public or private sector) don't have bottomless money pits.

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Oct 29, 2008
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What a bunch of Lying tossers who bend the rules to suit their view.

i.e
In their response to a couple of their objections

Objectors said
"Motorhomers will pay"
Council said
"As a Council we have always taken the view that
by not charging in the car parks after 6pm that we are supporting the nighttime economy. If
a charge was introduced all users of the car park would be required to pay the charge."


My thoughts.
Who said all users would have to pay? It works in St Annes on sea, ond we support night time economy as we eat in the pub next door, go to the cinema, amusements, shops and chippy.

Objectors said
"Motor Caravan owners put income into the local economy over day trippers"
Council said
"There is no evidence that prohibiting motor caravans will have an affect on local businesses"

My Thouights
Well since the Scarborough parking restrictions were applied we no longer go to Scarborough we go to St Annes. Last visit we spent over £20 on parking, £40 in the Toby, £18 at the chippy. £15 in B and M and £5 in the amusements. We also dropped my son off at a hotel for a few days wher he met up with my daughter and they also spent money there. We used to go to Scarborough at least once a month in the winter and a few times in the summer now we don't go there ever. Is that not proof?

I dont have time at the moment to cover the other joke council rep-Lies but most of them are complete bull and are laughable
 

Tanya_and_Mick

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Thanks @GJH and apologies for dregging up a done-to-death topic....

My high-level takeaway is that c.£50-100K outlay with limited probability of recouping the cost due to limited spend by the motorhome community.

From a guessing view-point, it makes sense to me why local councils do not provide facilities for motorhomes :)
 
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Yes, but it's only an example..

It's impossible to quantify .. I would guess only a few spend £100 .. many others will stock up with food and drink at a out of town supermarket and spend as little as possible.. or perhaps only a few pounds.

A family with a car will in many cases buy everything they eat and drink.. spending more per head than a couple in a motorhome..

To answer your question..again it would depend, when we go to a site, generally a CL we come fully stocked. We rarely eat out, and don't drink, so very little other than a post cards or local souvenir, and perhaps chippy at night.. so probably less than £20..

It's a rich person who can spend £100 every day


All is conjecture...

I don't consider myself rich but I do often eat and drink out when touring, I enjoy local pubs and restaurants etc and a reasonable lunch for two might cost £35/40 inc drinks and sometimes more. We do frequent local shops, particularly butchers as we find their offering much better than supermarkets. I am happy to spend money in Britstops and pub stops for a decent meal and an overnight stay, again maybe £35/40 but I really begrudge spending £25 and upwards on a C&MC site when i don't want their facilities of showers etc. So it's Britstops or similar for us and CL's.

On arrival at a CL of course we will be stocked up and it will probably be with produce we purchased in the last town we visited. As said, what people spend is impossible to quantify but I expect there are many like us who do spend and equally many who don't so it probably balances out I think to give an average of £50 for a visit with fish and chips and a few drinks with a bit of browsing. Concerning Whitby, as we know we can still park in the marina car park at the moment we will return and spend even more money locally, probably other motorhomes would go back too and they will spend more money.

We all have different habits and I agree not all motorhomers spend locally but I am equally sure many do. Some families in cars may well bring everything with them as they may not be able to afford to buy everything they eat and drink locally in restaurants or pubs, I expect there're quite a few who bring a picnic. I imagine a family with two kids just buying ice creams won't get much back from a tenner and they know that a plan accordingly.

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Surely the costs of provision depend upon the facilities and utilities available. Many aires in France have home made type drains and sewer and water taps wheareas others use those neat little towers etc. A car park that has public toilets in already has drains, water and sewer available and therefore costs of adaptation for motorhome use should not be too prohibitive.
The council report is typical of local council reports. They are written by bureaucrats who like an do nothing approach as its easiest for them, and councillors who toe their line too easily.
 
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I also agree that private enterprise is more likely than councils. Having stayed at Almerimar in Spain I think that many privately owned marinas are missing out. They already have the utilities there on site, and invariably a busy marina attracts pubs and restuarants etc, and they are usually sited in nice locations.
 

Anthea M

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We have used the marina in winter when campsites are closed and eaten out both days bought things from local shops and cafes pubs etc.
It’s our break so don’t cook .
We took all waste home ( unlike some grey water dribblers!)
Without the carpark we wouldn’t go to Whitby in the MH and so wouldn’t put well over 150£+ into the local economy .
I love Whitby!

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GJH

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Thanks @GJH and apologies for dregging up a done-to-death topic....

My high-level takeaway is that c.£50-100K outlay with limited probability of recouping the cost due to limited spend by the motorhome community.

From a guessing view-point, it makes sense to me why local councils do not provide facilities for motorhomes :)
No need to apologise Mick. It's the sort of topic that comes round regularly :)

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Northernraider

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Yes, but it's only an example..

It's impossible to quantify .. I would guess only a few spend £100 .. many others will stock up with food and drink at a out of town supermarket and spend as little as possible.. or perhaps only a few pounds.

A family with a car will in many cases buy everything they eat and drink.. spending more per head than a couple in a motorhome..

To answer your question..again it would depend, when we go to a site, generally a CL we come fully stocked. We rarely eat out, and don't drink, so very little other than a post cards or local souvenir, and perhaps chippy at night.. so probably less than £20..

It's a rich person who can spend £100 every day


All is conjecture...
Or a person who doesn't spend it all on campsite fees :)
 

chesterfield hooligan

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They could privatise the car park to me and I would drive up every day empty the machines sweep up, how much is remind me £12 for 24 hours say 10 campers a night for a bit of tarmac with no service's, where's the cost taking the money?? then there is all the car's. Perhaps £500 a day give the council half for their tea money. Lovely Jubley.
:party2::party2::party2::party2::party2::party2::party2:
 

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